Ice Dance Annual Meeting

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Thanks. I wish it wasn't called the maple leaf march. Will it be for juniors or seniors?

Most likely seniors. I think Piper and Paul and co. came up with that name because I remember two years ago more-or-less, them talking about the process in adapting their partial step sequence into a pattern and having to come up with a name. The probably wanted to put Canada in there somewhere (like Yankee Polka or Finn Step) and Maple Leaf March has an alliteration to it.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

BTW, what did you guys think of the end of the video where Fabian Bourzat was getting into it with the tech committee (and didn't accept Margaglio's explanation) about the rocker not being a keypoint in the Tango Romantica pattern step? I think Bourzat still didn't quite understand that the "entertainment"/"engaging" bonus point was intended to reward teams that simply went the extra mile and wanted to perform and present something more than a collection of elements as he kept asking why bother making something like that if it was only 1 point...then somebody else said it should be worth more points if they wanted teams to take that seriously...which I think is going the WRONG way as to critiquing what's wrong with the bonus (which IMO would be inconsistent and unequal application and vagueness). It's also interesting that judges have to first answer Yes/Partly/No to the question of whether the program was "entertaining" or "engaging" before they can submit marks for PCS.

 

[Mango]

Instead of giving, taking away, or withholding marks they should make a cash incentive for entertainment. Like a giant tip. Make it $X000 for the most entertaining, then $1000 less for the 2nd most, and $2000 less for the 3rd most entertaining program. Or give cash prizes for the most entertaining FD per group. So a team that places something like 17th at Worlds and skated in the first group but has an engaging program can still walk away with some money.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

BTW, what did you guys think of the end of the video where Fabian Bourzat was getting into it with the tech committee (and didn't accept Margaglio's explanation) about the rocker not being a keypoint in the Tango Romantica pattern step? I think Bourzat still didn't quite understand that the "entertainment"/"engaging" bonus point was intended to reward teams that simply went the extra mile and wanted to perform and present something more than a collection of elements as he kept asking why bother making something like that if it was only 1 point...then somebody else said it should be worth more points if they wanted teams to take that seriously...which I think is going the WRONG way as to critiquing what's wrong with the bonus (which IMO would be inconsistent and unequal application and vagueness). It's also interesting that judges have to first answer Yes/Partly/No to the question of whether the program was "entertaining" or "engaging" before they can submit marks for PCS.

Well, Maurizio is team Marina and Fabian is team Igor. And Maurizio is the one who called some decisions. Which are probably in benefits of his teams. After all, thats why ISU officials did that seminar open - to hear different opinions and only after that make final decisions.
To judge first a program as a whole is something which should make judges not to base all the Program components marks only on basic SS, cause as something judged first that influenced (maybe) too much other PCS. This way i guess both impression on the program and SS will influence other components equally. Well that could be the idea behind that.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Didn't the technical committee agree to those points before this presentation? I doubt Maurizio single-handedly made certain decisions. It seemed like they were all on a united front about the rocker issue and I guess they felt putting the rocker as a key-point would be difficult considering where it's placed in the pattern and make ice dance teams forget to actually dance the tango and concentrate more on hitting that rocker. The people on the panel are judges/callers so I guess they also wanted that as well. Of course it looked like Fusar-Poli and others backed up Bourzat. Bourzat looked confused a lot of the time though, understandably. Igor looked tan and looked like he was holding back laughter.

I agree with you that the point of judging the program as a whole before getting into PCS is to make the judges decide on how they feel about the program before they go into scoring the individual components.

 

[Ice Dance]

Well, Maurizio is team Marina and Fabian is team Igor.

My impression is that Maurizio is working more on his own these days. Marina does do his teams' choreo, but I gather that he is doing his coaching on his own now that he is located in Finland. Is this incorrect? He seems to have many different roles within the sport. Works as a technical caller. And I gather also has some responsibilities within the Italian Federation? (Maybe I remember wrong, but I think he was also helped this year with U.S. Dance Camp).

I'm just curious. He wears a lot of hats and they seem to have evolved over the past quadrennium.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

^^^
Which then could only means that Marina called him sitting with her just cause his role inside ISU But they didnt all agree about the rocker thing cause they asked people to vote if i recall things well, so...If you ask my opinion, I guess putting someone with lesser influental teams and other roles to be a coachs represent as Barbara Fusar Poli or Silvia Novak would be better... Also, put every year different coach in ISU commettee, so other coaches wouldnt complain on indivudal basis Also, some would complain no matter what... which is sometimes good for overal debate tho...

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

For basic levels being introduced, it seems like they're being a bit lenient for major mistakes by allowing them to get SOME points rather than 0 as we have seen a few times the past few seasons when skaters wiped out during an element.

 

[WeakAnkles]

No the bonus for the FD has more to do with engaging than anything else. If your FD is fun, let it be colorful, if it's sad, let it be engaging, etc. Just don't put out anything blandor unispired I guess. Or not well constructed.

Oh please, why not just call it what it is: a chance for more judging manipulation. What are they gonna do? Say "well this program was distinctly orange to me but that one was far more beige"???

It may be one of the stupidest rule changes in the history of ID and given its history it had PUHLENTY of competition.

 

[WeakAnkles]

BTW, what did you guys think of the end of the video where Fabian Bourzat was getting into it with the tech committee (and didn't accept Margaglio's explanation) about the rocker not being a keypoint in the Tango Romantica pattern step? I think Bourzat still didn't quite understand that the "entertainment"/"engaging" bonus point was intended to reward teams that simply went the extra mile and wanted to perform and present something more than a collection of elements as he kept asking why bother making something like that if it was only 1 point...then somebody else said it should be worth more points if they wanted teams to take that seriously...which I think is going the WRONG way as to critiquing what's wrong with the bonus (which IMO would be inconsistent and unequal application and vagueness). It's also interesting that judges have to first answer Yes/Partly/No to the question of whether the program was "entertaining" or "engaging" before they can submit marks for PCS.

Please, a complete disaster of a program can be EXTREMELY entertaining. Case in point: B/S's Birds program. Does it get the bonus point then for its sheer awfulness?

 

[Ice Dance]

I'll be surprised if they actually implement the entertainment bonus. It should, rather, be a recommended bullet point for performance in PCS.

But I don't mind them suggesting the entertainment bonus at all because I think it sends a good message after the slew of lyrical programs last season. ("Please, guys, don't put us to sleep. We're sitting down here by this freezing cold ice for hours at a time.")

 

[Barb]

What teams do you think would have gotten that bonus at Worlds 2018?

 

[Anyasnake]

Oh please, why not just call it what it is: a chance for more judging manipulation. What are they gonna do? Say "well this program was distinctly orange to me but that one was far more beige"???

It may be one of the stupidest rule changes in the history of ID and given its history it had PUHLENTY of competition.

I think it is a chance for manipulation because you could put a 2-point difference that is unjustified. I was speaking about a proper definition of the "entertainment value". I personally hope this is not going to be validated.

 

[VIETgrlTerifa]

I'll be surprised if they actually implement the entertainment bonus. It should, rather, be a recommended bullet point for performance in PCS.

But I don't mind them suggesting the entertainment bonus at all because I think it sends a good message after the slew of lyrical programs last season. ("Please, guys, don't put us to sleep. We're sitting down here by this freezing cold ice for hours at a time.")

In the video, they made it sound like a lyrical program could still get the bonus. They pretty much recognized they used the wrong word by calling it "entertainment" and actually meant "engaging" or basically "not boring". I think there were a few lyrical programs in the past few seasons that most likely would have had gotten the bonus, especially if that team's coaching squad had enough teams from enough federations that were represented on the judging panel.

 

[VikiLeeks]

People from early warm-ups are rather weak and judges know it. They also know that they will have to sit and watch for hours until the battle for medals even begins. Maybe this bonus is needed to make the judges watch early numbers more attentively. I don't know but this 'entertainment' thing just looks silly without the criteria and features of boredom.
Besides, the order of skating can sometimes affect the overall impression. A so-so program may seem very inspiring after a real disaster. Will 'boring' skaters replace their programs with more cheerful ones? I don't think so. It's not that easy and necessary to do for 1 extra point mid-season.
Unless this point decides who will medal or not. And such subjectivity is inadmissible for a sports competion. So now I hope they will give up on this idea and at least postpone it.

 

[Mohacz]

Well if Broadway is an option, I hope the skaters will choose songs from "Rent," "Mamma Mia (Not the usual choices)," "Wicked," "Cats," etc.

Ooooo and that will mean that "Willy Wonka Jr." Could be used.

I would like to see somebody skating to something from Dear Evan Hansen (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1Evnzkez7o) or Hamilton (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNQBs9sP7-w&list=RD75RUpLIDKmU&index=3)

 

[Ice Dance]

In the video, they made it sound like a lyrical program could still get the bonus. They pretty much recognized they used the wrong word by calling it "entertainment" and actually meant "engaging" or basically "not boring". I think there were a few lyrical programs in the past few seasons that most likely would have had gotten the bonus, especially if that team's coaching squad had enough teams from enough federations that were represented on the judging panel.

Oh, I don't have any doubt that the top ten teams could & likely would get the bonus, no matter what they were performing, by the end of the season. (And fairly so. When comparing the performance quality of these teams relative to singles skaters, it should be a given). Though it could cause lots of angst early in the season with unpolished programs. I don't want to see teams dumping early material in order to reuse old, more polished material. This would be a possible negative outcome, IMO. Also, it could undermine a less established team from building momentum during the regular season, and we already know it is difficult enough for less-established dancers to break through over those with more reputation.

 

[rosy14]

A more trick in order to be even more unaccountable on their evaluation: enjoyable/colourful/ entertaining are so subjective terms ! For instance my daughter and I found much more enjoyable, entertaining, colourful the free dances in Milan by the second French couple, Soucisse/Firus and Smart/ Diaz than those by Hubbel/ Donohue or Papdakis/Cizeron.

 

[rosy14]

Margaglio is Mezzadri’s, Scali is Marina’s.

 

[gmyers]

So alla got the panel to show a lift from bobrova and soloviev as being worthy of more than plus 3 and it was a catastrophic disaster!! Almost No one in the crowd wanted to seven see bobrova and soloviev anymore! It showed why b/s have Such a catastrophic career