Evgenia Medvedeva to train under Brian Orser

[MIM]

At this point, she was taught everything the eri Etcamp can offer and she became one of the most successful fruit of the school. She could stay there, believing in a record proving fact that "Eteri is the best female coach of the world."

She speaks good English, probably have heard/read criticism towards Eteri skating school's strategy and choreography. She probably has exchanged opinions in person between skaters and choreographers around the world at the shows. Also, she knows the strategy of Eteri's camp and hard workload, and as Eteri learns it works better with the young, so does Evgenia. It is not too hard to figure out Evgenia needs to seek out other methods that can best serve her mature career and body. Since Yuna, Orser did not have a star female skater. Evgenia's lucrative titles possibly helped Orser accept her as his new pupil, or Evgenia is simply an interesting material to work with.

Okay, I see the change is good. And I am happy it happened as in a dream scenario.

But, I am most excited by the one possibility followed by this coaching change; SHE CAN WORK WITH OTHER CHOREOGRAPHERS OUTSIDE HER USUAL CIRCLE. Wilson? Shae? Bezic? Tom?
:hap93::thumbsup:

 

[Danibellerika]

I do agree with Spirals for Miles.

Honestly, I am stunned how people were trying to be 'saints' like they always tell the truth and never change their mind and believe everything that media says... When, in fact, you never know what life might bring and how circumstances might affect on life choices.

There are tonnes of situations like this not only in sport. For instance, when people change their job. Are they always telling their boss beforehand...? like 'hey, I might leave you, but not sure yet, see ya later....and btw can I leave early today, having an interview'....I am not even saying when people got divorced just after getting married or long time friends falling apart due to argument... It does't make them 'liars, betrayals or bad people' And of course, tonnes of athletes change the coaches in all sports, it's normal...
However, going against all ethical norms and bad-mouthing your athlete at prime time on National TV and sharing personal conversation (if it's indeed occurred) is normal apparently...

There is perfect saying: “We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation."

This one was great. And so true. The truth is, I don't think Evgenia owes the media or the public anything. It's her life and her career. We'll find out when we find out. And considering the dumpster fire this turned into, I can't blame her for waiting until she can report firm facts. I am inclined to believe that whatever happened between her and Eteri for Med to cut her off, Med certainly had her reasons (especially if it's true Eteri told Med to quit, which would explain Med's statement about wanting longevity because why should she be put out to pasture at 18?). Eteri has done jack to make me sympathetic for her, and she's done jack to make me think she can effectively help Med work toward those goals from here on. None of us know Med, have been in this exact position, and can say without a doubt what we'd do in her shoes. Whatever her choices are, they weren't made lightly.

 

[Rissa]

Eteri isn't the only coach with skaters that don't pick their own music, either. I think Brian was just being matter-of-fact. Coaches and skaters don't necessarily hide this information during competitions.

Not even all Orser's students pick the music themselves most of the time. I can't imagine Junhwan Cha would have chosen something like "Il Postno" himself. I know that Hanyu has been handpicking his own FS music for the last few years, but he seems to be exception rather than a rule. So, I suppose it's more like "What style would you like? How about this? Maybe that?" (I'm still mysified about Lil Bet's Carmen and who got that idea, especially given the contrast with Gabby. Misha Ge did a downright fantastic job on the choreo, but c'mon, they should have known better. Unless it was Tursy putting her foot down like Hanyu with Phantom.) So, in any case, I'm really curious whether we will see any drastic change regarding Evgenia's style. Anna Karenina seemed to resonate with her, so I suppose a dramatic program which David Wilson has churned out dozens of is a possibility, but I'm hoping for a departure in SP.

 

[cruzceleste]

But, I am most excited by the one possibility followed by this coaching change; SHE CAN WORK WITH OTHER CHOREOGRAPHERS OUTSIDE HER USUAL CIRCLE. Wilson? Shae? Bezic? Tom?
:hap93::thumbsup:

Jeffrey

 

[MIM]

Bravo Averbukh!

Averbukh??? Is he the reason she leaves? or Is he coming with her?

Your avata reminded me of Yulia and how brutal the rink (Samba 70) has been to the veteran skaters after Olympics. Evgenia has witnessed it in front of her, which how could repeat to herself in the new season if she had stayed.
I think it was a smart choice. I know Yulia lives a happy life of her own, but I wonder what if Yulia had opted to stay outside Russia and trained with non-russian coaches.

 

[lyndichee]

i love orser to death, but i cvant help but see irony whenever he comments on Trusova and whether she will have quads when she grows and how she's gonna be short lived. He isn't exactly holding stephen gogolev back from having all 5 of his quads

Per the ice network article on senior age eligibility, he stated any pain they will stop and they intend to proceed cautiously. I think since Gogolev has been noticed by the public, it is clear he is the exception in the group and Brian is being really careful to ensure he has a long career in the sport.

I know he didn’t say “who cares?” I believed that’s the mindset. To dismiss accomplishments in juniors because they may not Last in seniors. That’s attacking the Russian system right now. The Russian system is pre 18 girls doing amazing. Why is this a bad thing that needs to be banned? This is what Medvedeva has joined. A ban the Russian system promoter.

You believed and you twisted it into attacking the Russian system. It was not an attack, it is a reality to consider. He never supported a ban, he supports the idea of raising the minimum age in order to ensure that coaches are considering the long-term growth of these skaters.

 

[TunaKeem]

I won't speculate on the private dealings between Evgenia and Eteri but I am SO excited for this upcoming season. I can't wait for the summer to be over. Evgenia and Alina at the grand prix series/final. I'm so curious to see if Evgenia's scores (GoE/PCS) will be impacted as retaliation for her leaving the Russian Federation's machine.

Evgenia has already proven her nerves of steel are there and doesn't waiver under the pressure of being at the top. If she can hone her technique with Borser, fix the flutz and get some good choreography under her belt...WOW I can't wait. It's easier to pull the reigns on performance from someone like Evgenia who tends to over-emote with the miming and such than to try to pull something out of someone who is very reserved (i.e. Dabin Choi). I think if judging stays constant, we will see Evgenia blossoming into an even more amazing skater!

 

[zounger]

Interesting read https://teamrussia.pro/olimpijskij-...dvedevoj-i-tutberidze-e-to-horosho-dlya-vseh/

 

[Watch]

The problem with all of this is that the skaters are owned by the Russian Federation and not being their own person? Why would she have to get permission from the Russian Federation to go to Canada to train? THe coaches are owned. The skaters are told what to eat and when to eat, told when to sleep, do as you are told because we own you. Then when you hit puberty, you are out the door and an old woman at the ripe old age of 18. No Longevity!

It's not really that they're "owned". But it's the other side of being in a state sponsored program. The upside is that the sport isn't exclusive to those fortunate who can afford it, the downside is that you're not free to just do whatever when there's government money being spent on your career. I honestly hope that Evgenia's experiment is successful, not just for her own sake, but also for the sake of Russian ladies' skating as a whole. I love my Russian girls and it breaks my heart to see them getting knocked out long before they even hit 20. Rusfed needs to see that they can get the success they want by supporting established skaters for a long time and not putting one young girl after another through the meat grinder.

 

[gmyers]

That's true. Because Evgenia, like all life forms, continues to age. As she intends to compete beyond hitting 18 years old, she needed to find a coach/system that would allow her to do so. It's nothing against the Russian system...she's just at a different point in her life where that system isn't going to work for her.

Thus, she made the move to Orser.

She didn’t have to go to an advocate of banning the Russian system From seniors!

Per the ice network article on senior age eligibility, he stated any pain they will stop and they intend to proceed cautiously. I think since Gogolev has been noticed by the public, it is clear he is the exception in the group and Brian is being really careful to ensure he has a long career in the sport.



You believed and you twisted it into attacking the Russian system. It was not an attack, it is a reality to consider. He never supported a ban, he supports the idea of raising the minimum age in order to ensure that coaches are considering the long-term growth of these skaters.

You are right! Isu and oser can’t ban the russian system. They are working to ban it from seniors.

 

[PyeongChang2018]

A question:

I'm sorry if this has already been asked and answered upthread, but do skaters normally choose their own spin positions? In my mind I can't imagine the coach wouldn't choose these, knowing the point system and all. And what makes them any different from the jumps--the coach chooses the jumps, right?

Thank you in advance. This is very curious to me.

 

[kwanatic]

Rusfed needs to see that they can get the success they want by supporting established skaters for a long time and not putting one young girl after another through the meat grinder.

I'm thinking this is likely why there wasn't much push back when Evgenia told them she wanted to train in Canada. This is their chance to have a competitor go beyond the ripe old age of 18.

 

[andromache]

Interesting read https://teamrussia.pro/olimpijskij-...dvedevoj-i-tutberidze-e-to-horosho-dlya-vseh/

I read this in translation - very interesting perspective from a journalist (?) who seems to know Evgenia and Eteri pretty well. Some parts don't really make any sense, so it would be nice to see a better translation.

Of interest:

Already at the end of the Games, after the delivery of all medals, a rumor passed: a black cat allegedly ran between the athlete and the coach. I was not that witness, and therefore I did not take anything outside.

Is this a metaphor or did a black cat really walk between them???

Of course, on the same emotions, Medvedev pronounced the words that Tutberidze now recalls to her ("Right out of the Olympic ice there was a childish phrase like this:" Could you really keep Zagitov one more year in juniors? "- Team Russia) . Eteri Georgievna was very upset with them. After all, she spent 11 years with Zhenya, took care of her. When I talked with Tutberidze at the end of last year, and at the Olympics, it seemed she wanted Medvedev's victory. No more than Alina's victory. And no less.

It's clear that Evgenia said the wrong thing in a moment of emotion. This guy seems to think that Eteri was really rooting for Evgenia and Alina equally, I think? I imagine she was trying to be professional but was biased toward Evgenia at the time though.

Termination of joint work can benefit both Medvedev and Tutberidze. They will be freed from shackles, which, I do not exclude, they were shackled. They were shackled from the point of view of necessity, first, to achieve the result, secondly - for the coach - in the previous regime to lead the rest of the athletes of their group, and thirdly - for the athlete - to be uniquely the first [in the Tutberidze group].

A little hard to parse, but really makes sense. Eteri doesn't have to worry about Evgenia anymore while she takes care of her other athletes.

I know Zhenya well, this is a wonderful, well-bred, bright man. She likes to learn, she can compete. It is much more difficult for her to give than to some others - this was talked about in a personal conversation with me by coaches. Medvedeva is a self-made woman. She shows industriousness and perseverance: she does not even have the magic talent that other sportswomen may have, yet she can really become the number one in the world.

Another source saying that Evgenia pretty much lacks in natural talent but she works her butt off.

We got acquainted at the end of 2015. I do not remember that Zhenya once called me on you - although we have a big age difference. It's easy with her, really! When her first season ended, we recorded a big interview for one serious edition. Before him, I met Medvedev not far from the "Crystal", we talked about something. Zhenya - at that time already champion of Russia, Europe and the world - still absolutely no one recognized. She, by the way, admitted that she easily moves by subway. So, I tell Zhenya that I did not expect such results at all. She replied: "And I think you expected?" In these words, the whole of Medvedev.

Can someone clarify? It appears he means that Evgenia wasn't famous enough to be recognized on the streets/trains in 2015 - what does he mean that Evgenia's words "And I think you expected? (???) really represent her?

 

[Klarnet]

Amidst overall excitement on "new life and new Medvedeva with Orser" I wonder what he really has to offer to her except the "luxury of voice". And what happens if he fails to take her to the olympic gold, would there be another ghosted coach?

With two of his other prominent students Orser always used to emphasize how full package and impeccable quality of elements(GOE) are the key to success. But Evgenia already is full package at least in protocols if not in reality, Orser would have to do what she had not done with previous team - add difficulty, either backloading or learning new combo like 3Lz-3Lo and jumps like 4S or 3A. And while first and even combo is possible, the latter is highly doubtful and would certainly take more time. So I assume his plan is to make some overall polish with backloading and hoping main future rivals won't keep their jumps and/or consistency by olympics.

That's why realistically I don't have big expectations, as Orser has told himself before, it takes time to see results,there probably would be better programs, but if her technical level stay put, the disappointment is inevitable.

 

[Tulipstar]

Wow. This is the most dramatic thing that has happened since I became a figure skating fan.

The cast of characters can hardly be more famous in the FS world. We have the two most famous coaches at the moment and the women's Olympic silver medalist (who is also a two time world champion). Then the women's gold medalist gets dragged into it. In fact, is there anyone who skated in the last twenty years who has not been mentioned in these discussions yet? I've seen Yuzuru, Gaby, Wakaba, Polina, Alexandra, Yulia, Yuna, Adelina, Carolina, Javi, Plush, even Tonya Harding and many others, as well as people who don't even skate like Putin and Maria Sharapova

The only thing that would have been more dramatic, would have been in Yuzuru had moved to Eteri. I literally cannot think of any other change that would have caused this much of a storm.

 

[OswinOswald]

I read this in translation - very interesting perspective from a journalist (?) who seems to know Evgenia and Eteri pretty well. Some parts don't really make any sense, so it would be nice to see a better translation.
Of interest:
Can someone clarify? It appears he means that Evgenia wasn't famous enough to be recognized on the streets/trains in 2015 - what does he mean that Evgenia's words "And I think you expected? (???) really represent her?

I saw another translation where her answer was "you think I did?".
I'm not sure about what we are supposed to understand here, but perhaps he wants to say that she's not arrogant but rather humble?

 

[zounger]

I read this in translation - very interesting perspective from a journalist (?)

It's Grishin the co-commentator of TAT. Sorry but it will take me to much time to translate it, I hope someone else with better Russian skill's do it's indeed a very good read in my opinion.

The black cat passing is a phrase to express bud luck something unfortunate to happen.

...


The correct translation is "And you think, I was expecting them?" (the results) In this words is whole of Medvedeva.

 

[OS]

Amidst overall excitement on "new life and new Medvedeva with Orser" I wonder what he really has to offer to her except the "luxury of voice". And what happens if he fails to take her to the olympic gold, would there be another ghosted coach?

With two of his other prominent students Orser always used to emphasize how full package and impeccable quality of elements(GOE) are the key to success. But Evgenia already is full package at least in protocols if not in reality, Orser would have to do what she had not done with previous team - add difficulty, either backloading or learning new combo like 3Lz-3Lo and jumps like 4S or 3A. And while first and even combo is possible, the latter is highly doubtful and would certainly take more time. So I assume his plan is to make some overall polish with backloading and hoping main future rivals won't keep their jumps and/or consistency by olympics.

That's why realistically I don't have big expectations, as Orser has told himself before, it takes time to see results,there probably would be better programs, but if her technical level stay put, the disappointment is inevitable.

It is the overall environment of the cricket club that is attractive, not just Orser. The overall team, including Tracey Wilson (awesome lady), David Wilson, Dance classes, how she will be inspired by peers (Come on.. it is where Hanyu, Javier trains, and she get to be the Alpha female, not Alpha female no.2), training environment can be very attractive to someone who wish to take next steps to develop their skating. Gain independence and grow up, and more important get away from the toxic environment that has become.

Orser will probably force her to just learn how to skate for the first few months anyway... to rebuild her foundation. Having fresh eyes and opinion can really help polish someone's fundamentals, a strength in Orser's camp but not in Eteri who focusses more on tricks and points.

Lets say if she visibly improves her speed, flow, core, positions compare to Alina, the judges will have no choice but to separate their PCS more greatly... at least that is IN THEORY! PCS is a mysical beast these days lol...

 

[MaiKatze]

Amidst overall excitement on "new life and new Medvedeva with Orser" I wonder what he really has to offer to her except the "luxury of voice". And what happens if he fails to take her to the olympic gold, would there be another ghosted coach?

With two of his other prominent students Orser always used to emphasize how full package and impeccable quality of elements(GOE) are the key to success. But Evgenia already is full package at least in protocols if not in reality, Orser would have to do what she had not done with previous team - add difficulty, either backloading or learning new combo like 3Lz-3Lo and jumps like 4S or 3A. And while first and even combo is possible, the latter is highly doubtful and would certainly take more time. So I assume his plan is to make some overall polish with backloading and hoping main future rivals won't keep their jumps and/or consistency by olympics.

That's why realistically I don't have big expectations, as Orser has told himself before, it takes time to see results,there probably would be better programs, but if her technical level stay put, the disappointment is inevitable.

Exactly. In between all the drama, and the 'yay, freedom' posts this still remains a sport and the problems for Evgenia as a russian figure skater, will not lessen, they will increase. Since two seasons the judges are basically telling the World Evgenia is all that already. It was her injury, the loss of momentum and well, Alina's better tech that prevented her from getting that Gold medal. Of course she is a great skater and might even have longevity, but the other Eteri skaters are coming, whether she skates at Orser's or at Eteri's camp. There is no way around that. 4 years is a long time.

 

[xeyra]

That's why realistically I don't have big expectations, as Orser has told himself before, it takes time to see results,there probably would be better programs, but if her technical level stay put, the disappointment is inevitable.

It'll be a work in progress, with probably no immediate results, and tough adaptation, but I'm not sure either expect miracles. Zhenya obviously felt that she needed a change from her current environment and training situation, and Orser was probably the only Elite coach she could turn to, and TCC a good environment for a melting pot of skaters of different nationalities. Whether it works out or not, at least she made the choice to try.