Kimmie's and YuNa's Presentation

[Skye]

I'm a little puzzled by the continued talk of Kimmie's composure. She had some significant problems in her GPF skates. I personally thought at least some of that might have been due to the pressure that she has experienced in the past 9 months. If it had been Sasha popping a jump or falling, everyone would have been talking about what a head case she is.

I've been watching Kimmie since she arrived on the JGP series in 2003/2004 season, and think the "consistency" she has is sort of a myth, just like the general consensus that she is a "late bloomer". She is capable of pulling out at least 5-6 triples in her free skate, which is something very few ladies are doing and to be very much admired of. But AFAIK Kimmie has never managed to skate 2 perfectly clean programs back-to-back in one competition, she would usually have slight errors here and there in either the short or long, sometimes in both. I do agree with dizzydi that her competitive spirit is one of her strongest assets, the factor that sets her apart from others and makes her a real contender.

 

[Spun Silver]

Really? I personally would need to see at least two or more consistent seasons of making mistakes in programs before labelling someone a hed case. Rohene War, Emanual Sandhu have long histories is imploding when it counts. Sasha now has racked up enough seasons for people to expect the one or two falls/mistakes per LP. I don't think i'm ready to say that about Kimmie or Emily yet (as many have) and i don't think i'm ready to say it of Weir yet either....

The difference with her and Sasha is that she clinched the Gold at worlds so she's going to get the benefit of the doubt now - she's done it before so she might just be having an off competition(s) whereas Sasha kept falling short so the assumption/presumption was that she would likely continue to fall short.

You have a good point about history. But as for the difference between her and Sasha, I don't think it amounts to much. Kimmie's gold at worlds will always be on the record books, but it was against a weak field. Whereas Sasha's silvers (and golds, and bronzes) were against the best.

It just bugs me that Sasha is held to a standard of perfection that doesn't seem to apply to anyone else. However, since Kimmie is all of 17, I agree that she should get a break. About her "competitive spirit" - can someone explain how that is manifested? Is it something people who know her talk about, or
something you can see in her skating, or her off-ice facial expression at competitions, or what?

Anyway, I don't mean to hijack the Kimmie-Yu Na thread. I saw enough of Kimmie's stylistic improvement in the SP at Skate America to be more hopeful about her continued development than I was last season, but I wasn't as impressed with her TEB skates as Joe is. Yu Na confuses me. She's an exquisite skater stylistically, close to perfection, but leaves me cold. Maybe it's her less than dramatic musical choices. But she has plenty of time.

 

[Mathman]

About consistency and mistakes, I don't think we will be seeing very many clean programs at all any more. CoP-wise, the way to win is to throw in everything but the kitchen sink and hope to stand up enough to get more points than the other guys.

Here is Kimmie's jump card for her LP.

3Lz+3T
3A
3F+3T
3S
3Lo
3Lz
2A+2T+2Lo.

If Kimmie or anyone else can do all that and hit every element every time, I'll eat my hat. But if she can get through the majority of her planned jumps, with only a few mistakes here and there, she will be in great shape to win.

Same with Sasha. At Torino she planned 7 triple jumps, landed 4 or 5, and creamed all of her challengers except Shizuka (who planned 7, attempted 6, and landed 5).

 

[waxel]

I don't think we will be seeing very many clean programs at all any more.

Oh God, what a sad thought ... but an altogether possible one. One more reason to hate COP. (That and the spins ... ohhhhh the spins...)

 

[MKFSfan]

Whereas Sasha's silvers (and golds, and bronzes) were against the best.

It just bugs me that Sasha is held to a standard of perfection that doesn't seem to apply to anyone else. However, since Kimmie is all of 17, I agree that she should get a break. About her "competitive spirit" - can someone explain how that is manifested?

Anyway, I don't mean to hijack the Kimmie-Yu Na thread.

I'm going to hijack this thread a minute, too...The way I see it the reason Sasha gets slammed for not winning is because she (like Mao is currently) was built up to be The Next Best Thing. Much like Mao is under constant scrutiny for not landing a 3axle, or if she doesn't hit all her jumps, is similar to what Sasha's had to deal with when she has not delivered in 2 back-to-back programs. Sasha was hyped to be the best artistic skater ever, to have a quad, to have all these SashaMovesTM, etc. that after awhile it's like,"Well, if she has it all, where are the major titles?" Yes, Sasha's silvers, etc. have come against very good skaters, but she's also been unable to capitalize when others have struggled, and IMO that is where the nit-pickers stepped in. I don't think it's deserved or fair.

Kimmie, IMO, has her competive nerves in check. She seems to be able to do her job despite nerves and is able to ignore all the hype the media, etc. put on her. That is where, I think, the whole "competitive spirit" comes from. Sasha doesn't seem to thrive under pressure, or step it up when she falls behind. That is something the ones who stay at the top constantly seem to posses: Tara, Michelle and Irina, and now Kimmie have all exhibited that drive, IMO. I think in Sasha's case, she expects perfection, she's afraid to fail and wants to win badly, that sometimes she gets the best of herself.

In conclusion, I think when you've been on the scene a long time, or made history somehow (Mao and her 2 3axles), people start expecting either perfection or the same level of difficulty each time out. People expected Michelle to perform at her constant peak for years, to deliver emotionally charged, 7 triple programs each time out, be it at Cheesefests or Olympics, so she had to deal with that "standard of perfection." And so has Sasha.

Bacl O/T, I love Yu-Na!

 

[R.D.]

MKFS-Great post, ITA. (Except for the ''I love Yu-Na'' part! )

 

[Spun Silver]

But did Kimmie "do her job" at TEB? How so, more than Sasha did at pretty much all her competitions of the past three years?

Interesting Mao-Sasha comparison, though. Mao is still my favorite of the current newbies (although she might not be if Elene G were skating right now). I'd still put my money on her over Yu Na in the long run. It's really just an intuition. I can't give any technical reasons for it.

And in general, I see what you mean. To extend your argument, if Kimmie stays on the podia (podiums?), she will run into the same standard of perfection after a couple more years as a senior.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I've been savoring a bottle of 2006 Beaujolais Nouveaux for the last week and enjoying it immensely. It's light and rather on the pure side, like a spring blossom. Is it finished like my favorite Barossa Valley, McClaren Vale, and Adelaide Hills' shiraz's? Maybe not, but there's so much to enjoy until it matures. (Like in 2007, or at aged 19, like Fleming...)

 

[Spun Silver]

That's how I feel about Mao!

 

[Mathman]

About her "competitive spirit" - can someone explain how that is manifested? Is it something people who know her talk about, or something you can see in her skating, or her off-ice facial expression at competitions, or what?

So what are you saying? That you haven’t yet noticed the steely glint in her eye, the pitying attitude of “I’m Kimmie Meissner and you’re not, poor dear,” with which she faces down all those silly would-be challengers to her title?

 

[Spun Silver]

'Fraid I fell hook, line & sinker for the "girl-next-door" and pure spring-water Beaujolais Nouveau spin!

 

[R.D.]

But this is Kimmie's 2nd full season. Give her some time. Cohen's been in it long enough and she's become very predictable. Give Kimmie until 2008 and then we can compare.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

But this is Kimmie's 2nd full season. Give her some time. Cohen's been in it long enough and she's become very predictable. Give Kimmie until 2008 and then we can compare.

Now this I agree with.... The way I see it ~ we skating fans are dealing with withdrawl ... We're so used to a level of skating that these younglings simply cannot compete against... throw in the silliness that is CoP and what you have is a new crop who probably won't experience "the skate of her life!" (despite what Peggy says...) for a couple of years... Even Miki who seems to have been around for awhile hasn't truly found her on-ice "voice" just yet... Give 'em time. Its too soon to pinpoint the magic that is artictic & technical excellence. JMO.

 

[MKFSfan]

But did Kimmie "do her job" at TEB? How so, more than Sasha did at pretty much all her competitions of the past three years?

Interesting Mao-Sasha comparison, though. Mao is still my favorite of the current newbies (although she might not be if Elene G were skating right now). I'd still put my money on her over Yu Na in the long run. It's really just an intuition. I can't give any technical reasons for it.

And in general, I see what you mean. To extend your argument, if Kimmie stays on the podia (podiums?), she will run into the same standard of perfection after a couple more years as a senior.

I'm not sure competitive spirit neccessarily = "doing her job." Right now, what is expected of Kimmie is to medal, hit her 3/3's and hopefully get her 3axle back. I don't think Kimmie has the "it" factor that Michelle, Sasha, Mao and Yu-Na have. I think she makes up for it with her work ethic and her steely attitude towards competing. Two years ago, she was hyped to be next in line of teens who win the OGM. Sasha was/is expected to win every time out. If Kimmie doesn't make the podium at 2007 Worlds, I don't think many would be too shocked. However, if Sasha decides to compete and doesn't make the podium, that would be a bigger deal. At least, I'd feel that way.

IMO, it seems the expectations to win and be held to a higher standard or pushing the sport foward, falls on Mao with her 3axle and 3/3. She's certainly not lacking in the "it" department and has great presence on the ice. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Yu-Na wins GPF and Worlds, then it all falls on her to raise the standard since she is seen as the whole package, beautiful spins, a 3/3, and is an artistic skater.

But yeah, I think if Kimmie goes on a winning streak, the moment she doesn't make the podium, the masses will turn on her, too.

PS...Red Dog, since I love when you agree with me, gotta say I do prefer Mao to Yu-Na, as well, I just said "I love Yu-Na!" to get back O/T!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I've been savoring a bottle of 2006 Beaujolais Nouveaux for the last week and enjoying it immensely. It's light and rather on the pure side, like a spring blossom. Is it finished like my favorite Barossa Valley, McClaren Vale, and Adelaide Hills' shiraz's? Maybe not, but there's so much to enjoy until it matures. (Like in 2007, or at aged 19, like Fleming...)

I've been sipping Trader Joes' Shiraz while watching the Grand Prix, and I do feel super about everyone's skate. Much better than beer which goes with baseball for me.

In defence of Sasha. For me she is an exceptional skater the likes of which we will not see again for some time.

Kimmie and YuNa are still in development. Give them both a year or two more and see where they grab you.

Joe

 

[Spun Silver]

Clearly it is time for a Goldenskates Wine Forum.

 

[hyoo]

As a Korean, I can tell you skaters are told to smile in Korea just as they are everywhere else.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I've been sipping Trader Joes' Shiraz while watching the Grand Prix, and I do feel super about everyone's skate. Much better than beer which goes with baseball for me.

I love Three Buck Chuck! I buy it by the case. (I understand it's Two Buck Chuck in California, where the liquor taxes are a lot lower than in Washington State.)

 

[jesslily]

Kimmie's in-betweens have improved alot comparing with her last year's performance. But this is a result of sacrificing her jump consistancy. Now Kimmie's jumps are not as high and secure as before.

 

[R.D.]

PS...Red Dog, since I love when you agree with me...

Say it ain't so!

...gotta say I do prefer Mao to Yu-Na, as well, I just said "I love Yu-Na!" to get back O/T!

To be fair and balanced they're all the same to me.

As a Korean, I can tell you skaters are told to smile in Korea just as they are everywhere else.

That's good to know. Still, I wonder how much of the "coolness" that many of the Asian skaters seem to have stems from cultural differences.