2018-19 U.S. Men’s figure skating

[Metis]

The US has three men’s spots, so Zhou doesn’t need to be second, he just needs to be third. Next season might be more of an issue with all the junior men projected to move up, but right now he just needs to stay ahead of either Brown or Krasnozhon.

Like I said: assuming he podiums at Nats, he’s fine. If he doesn’t, I think he’s still fine due to how many of the US men are either untested or seen as inconsistent. But Zhou may be sliding into the inconsistent group himself, and if he finishes off the podium, who knows? I think the modal outcome is one in which Zhou is on the team, but if Krasnozhon has a better GP season than Zhou and Nats is a bloodbath, Zhou may be on the team as the “backseat” member, not his usual “Chen’s driving, I call shotgun” spot.

 

[Tavi...]

Out of curiosity, why the focus on Alexei? At Nebelhorn he placed 5th out of 8 men, with a total score of 194.10. That’s extremely low, and puts him well behind Tomoki and Camden and quite a few others. Is he recovering from injury or was this just a bad outing?

 

[StitchMonkey]

Out of curiosity, why the focus on Alexei? At Nebelhorn he placed 5th out of 8 men, with a total score of 194.10. That’s extremely low, and puts him well behind Tomoki and Camden and quite a few others. Is he recovering from injury or was this just a bad outing?

Yes. He had an undefeated junior season last year and was first at junior worlds after the SP then hurt his ankle on his opening jump of his free skate and had to wd.

He appears to have lost some training and momentum due to it, but he was looking great for the last couple years. He just needs to get his skates back under him.

 

[Metis]

Out of curiosity, why the focus on Alexei? At Nebelhorn he placed 5th out of 8 men, with a total score of 194.10. That’s extremely low, and puts him well behind Tomoki and Camden and quite a few others. Is he recovering from injury or was this just a bad outing?

What was already said. Personally, I think he’s the best hope for the US men, as he has solid fundamentals (skating skills, performance, attention to music) and high scoring potential (very good jumps). He’s also done well in competition and doesn’t seem to have any major anxiety/“the first jump went badly, and with it goes the whole programme” issues. Not expecting him to win everything this year, but of the US men, I see him as the only one who doesn’t have any major obstacles or issues that need to be resolved — he needs more senior-level competition experience, but he also has the next four seasons to build up to Beijing. I think his overall scoring potential is higher than any of the other up and comers (again, maybe not from the jump this season, but within the next year), and he’s been consistent at the junior level. Basically, he doesn’t worry me.

He’s kind of the opposite of Zhou, in that all the boxes are checked in terms of fundamentals and the jumps, but he’ll need time to further refine his skating and make it his own, figure out a style, etc. But I’m very excited to see how he does in seniors, as Chen has been more or less carrying the US men (with a shoutout to Max Aaron). Zhou has had too many implosions for me to really feel confident, and while I’m generally excited about Jason’s development at TCC, I’m not sure where he’ll be in just one season there (in the longer term, he could be an anchor for the US and exceed expectations, however).

I think Camden and Tomoki are both solid and have their own qualities that recommend them, but I’ve yet to see them skate clean this season. Krasnozhon... is very much a competitor. He has the same competitive drive that can melt screens, a la Hanyu at WC12, Yuna Kim, etc., which is what helps nudge him over the edge in my book. All of these guys want it, but Krasnozhon wants it, and that can be decisive.

 

[1111bm]

He seemed legitimately surprised when he got his scores after the short, which he shouldn’t have been. One of his coaches needs to have the come to Jesus talk with him about “I know you UR, you know you UR, the tech panel knows you UR, and you need to be ready for the moment when your score is much lower than you want

Maybe he was confused at the one point deduction, because he wasn't aware of the time violation? Because he didn't look overly confident and triumphant to me when he left the ice and sat in the KnC, so I imagine he knew that he URed several jumps, although I guess he might have been surprised at how much they penalised him for it.

 

[Ice Dance]

Alexei should definitely be better than he is at the moment. Still rebuilding after injury, for sure.

He has a triple axel and also triple flip+triple loop, which is/was an advantage in juniors during the SP where quads are off limits. He's never had clean quadruples though and hurt himself last year trying to put a different one in at season's end. Now the system has changed and less-than-clean quads are getting hit harder. It will be interesting to see where he fits in with the senior guys once he is back to his old self. He could certainly compete for or even lead the Junior World team, though it's so tight with these four U.S. junior guys, I'd expect a battle. And an interesting one, partly because that fight will be held under a senior competition format at U.S. Nationals.

 

[princessalica]

Alexei should definitely be better than he is at the moment. Still rebuilding after injury, for sure.

I think it speaks to his competitive nature and desire to excell that he competed at Regionals. He has an international assignment. He doesn't need to compete at Sectionals or REgionals, but he did, even though the outing was not up to his usual standards. Alex is a fighter, and I'm betting that the Russian Fed is regretting letting him go. He's said on several occasions that his US citizenship is in process. I hope that they are more open to him that Christna Carrera. I was surprised that he wasn't skating better, but he broke his ankle, so he's allowed time to work through getting back to form. And you can't so much hold his 10th at Nationals against him too much either, because he was running a fever and fighting the sickness that spread through Nationals. He's got a lot of talent, and I'm certain he's working on it.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Absolutely agreed, makes him sound very hypocritical.
And complaining about this only now, when one of his students 'suffered', certainly doesn't give off the impression that he's invested in it for the greater good and more fairness in the sport.
.

Like I said, it's one thing for a coach to suggest that their skater should have been penalized less, versus suggesting that another skater should have been penalized more so that their own skater could have won.

 

[century2009]

Alexei seems to have potential so I hope he shows it because right now we will see.

I was hoping there was other US skaters that can be competitive internationally, because right now it seems it is only Nathan Chen.

 

[Ice Dance]

Naw, the men are like a roller coaster ride. Alexei Bychenko finished 4th at last year's Worlds and 9th at Skate America. Vincent finished 6th at the Olympics and 14th at Worlds. Brezina finished 16th at the Olympics and 2nd at Skate America. Boyang finished 4th at the Olympics and 19th at Worlds. Javi missed the GPF and medaled at the Olympics. Cha finished 15th at Worlds and defeated Hanyu in the free at the Autumn Classic.

You just really don't know.

Depends on the day.

 

[princessalica]

I was hoping there was other US skaters that can be competitive internationally, because right now it seems it is only Nathan Chen.

Jason is competitive. We did lose some great guys after the Olympics, but we've also got a lot of talent coming up from Juniors. Don't let a couple of bad performances make you think otherwise. Vincent is working on stuff, and he is growing as a skater. Yes, he didn't place as high as hoped, but he was less than a point out of 3rd. And if he hadn't started late, he would have been in 3rd. Alex's score from the Junior Grand Prix final is only a few points out of 2nd at Skate america. We've actually got a lot of depth in mens. We don't have the same depth in ladies, but don't throw in the towel when we've had one grand prix. Jason is with a new coach and changing things. This weekend will be a nice chance to see hoe he does. And I'll keep watching the guys coming up from juniors. There is so much potential there!

 

[Seren]

I think it’s actual a really exciting time for the US men- we have a lot of young talent with potential (which as we know can end up going either way), Jason (our most artistic skater) has made a huge change to try and improve his skating technically, and skaters like Vincent who are clearly working hard.

So I’m not really negative about it- it’s a post Olympic year, things will be interesting.

 

[Metis]

Maybe he was confused at the one point deduction, because he wasn't aware of the time violation? Because he didn't look overly confident and triumphant to me when he left the ice and sat in the KnC, so I imagine he knew that he URed several jumps, although I guess he might have been surprised at how much they penalised him for it.

That could be it. It’s not as obvious as Orser at WC17 asking what the deduction was for, at the very least.

I think there’s a lot of adjusting to the new mental math. (I’ve been thinking about making a cheat sheet for the new SoV, with a green-to-red coloured arrow marking key numbers from real-time GOE display and what that corresponds to for panel average, how much to deduct for UR calls, etc. Definitely not as fast at doing the math in my head now as I was in prior seasons, though having had a job that required calculating percentages where I was the only one who could do them in my head is some solace. It’s reminding myself how many points to knock off BV for a UR or e call that’s tripping me up.)

Overall, I’m not worried about the US men. I agree this is a good time for them. There are a number of guys with promise that just need more events/experience, and I’m interested in seeing how Brown develops at TCC but less so the immediate results than the longer-term ones. Krasnozhon could even medal at Rostelecom, depending on how well everyone skates. Helsinki is just a bloodbath — a top six placement would be a very solid result. (Why must all of my favourites be at the same GP event?!)

 

[century2009]

Jason is competitive. We did lose some great guys after the Olympics, but we've also got a lot of talent coming up from Juniors. Don't let a couple of bad performances make you think otherwise. Vincent is working on stuff, and he is growing as a skater. Yes, he didn't place as high as hoped, but he was less than a point out of 3rd. And if he hadn't started late, he would have been in 3rd. Alex's score from the Junior Grand Prix final is only a few points out of 2nd at Skate america. We've actually got a lot of depth in mens. We don't have the same depth in ladies, but don't throw in the towel when we've had one grand prix. Jason is with a new coach and changing things. This weekend will be a nice chance to see hoe he does. And I'll keep watching the guys coming up from juniors. There is so much potential there!

There are potential in Juniors for the US, but usually dont like to go off that until they are Senior because we have had juniors that cant live up to Seniors and crumble unfortunately.

I was hoping Vincent can fix this underrotation problem and hope he does in later competitions, but given Tom Z. I am not too hopefully when it is him.

Jason has potential and hope with the new changes, he will push through. Not sure about his programs this year. The SP is better than the FP program. The FP is not good for him, and cant believe he picked that. It is very old and outdated and just does not fit. Good luck to him at Skate Canada, so we will see an initial look at him soon.

 

[mrrice]

It looks like Jason had a rough outing in Canada. I was hoping he would have a great debut with his new coaching and environment. Hoping for better luck in the free.

 

[Noxchild]

I really wonder what will happen next season when the USA JGPF finalists (all three of them iirc) move into seniors... Tomoki is my second US fave after Nathan now, and I really want him to do well.

 

[bennorii]

According to the USFS international assignments page, Vincent Zhou has been assigned to compete at Tallinn Trophy.

 

[mrrice]

It looks like Jason skated better in the free but, to see him finish in 6th is disappointing. Better luck at his next event.

 

[Seren]

It looks like Jason skated better in the free but, to see him finish in 6th is disappointing. Better luck at his next event.

I think it was still a positive outing for him. He did one of the best 3A-3T's I've ever seen. And it wasn't an easy field. It was huge in starting to rebuild the confidence he lost last year. I don't think we always understand how hard it is to change technique. What he looks like in a year will be the bigger tell for me.

 

[karne]

I think it's all a matter of confidence for him now. Even the program seemed better to me.

And that 3A-3T....wow. That was...wow. Made me forget temporarily that he ever had a problem with that jump. The 3A was so good...it was as good as any that Joshua or Max have ever done.