TAT interview about Medvedeva, Zagitova, Tuktamysheva

[melgirl25]

You know what would probably send the Rus Fed into having stomach ulcers and make this board explode - Stasya and Sofia going 1-2 at Europeans I'm totally rooting for these 2 to go 1-2

Whoa! You said what????

 

[tokoyami]

I, for one, do not mind Zhenya not making the worlds or Euros team because I enjoy having all of my hair and nails. I admire her so much but BOY am I glad to not have to stress out about her any more this season

 

[moriel]

Not Worlds but Universiade. And even if Stasya is top Russian lady, it still doesn‘t make sense to send her. In the past it was always the B team that went there. So I understand the confusion on that point. She is still the lady who won them two World titles in a row and went to make a speech to let the Russians compete at the Olympics. She is the one who won them a Silver Medal there. She also won the FS at Nationals, even if she bombed the SP pretty hard. So, while I can see that she‘s struggling and shouldn‘t be on the worlds team there is no justification that she‘s not on the team for the Universiade either. TAT is right on that one. Of course it‘s still hilarious how she didn‘t even go to make a case for Zhenya at that council and complains afterwards. But some of her points are obviously correct.

Also: Zhenya did better internationally this season than Stasya: She’s got a 3rd and 4th placement at the GP and the place where she got her medal was in a tougher field. Her score at SCI was higher than Stasya’s at Rostelecom, hence she‘d have won Silver had she been there. She also got Silver at a Challenger event, compared to Stasya‘s bronze. Yes, Stasya had a better SP at Nationals and overall a better outing but it‘s not like she‘s that far ahead of her in international results.

TAT, across multiple interviews, clearly states she wanted Zhenya to be sent to Euros/Worlds.
Mishin says rusfed asked him to prepare Liza for Worlds: https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1069980793.html
TAT: complains about Mishin being told to prepare Liza, but Orser not being told to prepare Zhenya: https://www.sports.ru/figure-skating/1070018741.html

Pretty sure she means Euros and Worlds also, not just Universiade.

I don't think there is any reason to count past achievements. I mean, Adelina is an OGM, and surely she will be happy to have the 3rd spot. Thats not how sport work.
Also, "went to make a speech to let the Russians compete at the Olympics". Please, don't start this all over. It was not a favour Zhenya did. It was not relevant. It changed nothing, as such decisions are not taken because a girl went there and said something. She was top russian lady and she was sent, but any other girl of the team, such as Alina Zagitova or Maria Sotskova would have done the job. If anything, it was a favour to Zhenya, a way to prop and give more visibility to russian #1, rather than a favour from Zhenya to fed.

As for scores at nationals, there is this thing, winning one program does not count, you got to win in the sum. Stasya beat Zhenya there by 7 points. The rest of the season for both is pretty much around the same.

 

[theharleyquinn]

You know what would probably send the Rus Fed into having stomach ulcers and make this board explode - Stasya and Sofia going 1-2 at Europeans I'm totally rooting for these 2 to go 1-2

The question of what their scores were would remain in this scenario. Getting 1st/2nd with sub-200 scores may not help them make the strongest case. They'll want to show a SB here.

 

[Tavi...]

And? The thing is overall Konstantinova finished above her in standings. They got the same score at their first GP and there is like a gap of only 3 points between their second GP scores. If scores were the most important, many skaters wouldn't compete at GPF while others would have qualified.
And scores don't always shows who skated better, but who scored better. Some can have higher scores because of their PCS while they did more mistakes than those who got lower scores.

I have nothing against Konstantinova, but the only reason she “did better” on the GP than Zhenya was because of the luck of the draw. Zhenya’s score at Skate Canada was only good enough for third place there, but would have placed her second in Helsinki. Konstantinova’s Helsinki score would only have been good enough for fourth place in Canada. There’s also the fact that in their only head to head competition on the GP this season, Zhenya placed higher than Konstantinova. As to PCS, well, people who are not fans of a particular skater or whose favorites were beaten by another skater will often cry “overscored” and “held up!” But it’s the judges’ opinion that counts.

@Autumn Leaves, re your post #33, Konstantinova did not win gold at Russian Nats. She placed fourth.

 

[yume]

I have nothing against Konstantinova, but the only reason she “did better” on the GP than Zhenya was because of the luck of the draw.

It's the luck of the draw that make some win their GP tickets and not others. So by your logic, i assume that Mai Mihara did better than Samodurova and deserved to be at GPF more than her. Or that Medvedeva didn't even deserve to be in alternate list because her highest score would have get her the 6th place at the toughest GP (NHK trophy).

Standings are what matters. But apparently some people prefer to point scores when that makes their favorite skater looks better.

 

[Tavi...]

It's the luck of the draw that make some win their GP tickets and not others. So by your logic, i assume that Mai Mihara did better than Samodurova and deserved to be at GPF more than her. Or that Medvedeva didn't even deserve to be in alternate list because her highest score would have get her the 6th place at the toughest GP (NHK trophy).

Standings are what matters. But apparently some people prefer to point scores when that makes their favorite skater looks better.

I’m not sure what “people” you’re talking about, because Medvedeva is not my favorite skater. As to the rest of it, I don’t really have much else to say except that while you’re welcome to your opinions, I don’t really appreciate your tone.

 

[yume]

I don’t really appreciate your tone.

I don't appreciate your tone either.

 

[Fluture]

You know what would probably send the Rus Fed into having stomach ulcers and make this board explode - Stasya and Sofia going 1-2 at Europeans I'm totally rooting for these 2 to go 1-2

Not gonna happen. Alina‘s scoring potential is literally huge compared to the other two. I have no doubt they will sweep the podium but it will be Alina on top unless she happens to have a Worlds moment. But she had that one already at Nationals this season so it‘s not going to happen again. And apparently she’s well enough to try quads so she’ll be in top shape by Euros. She’s never faltered twice in a season, let alone twice in a row. Only Worlds last season and Nationals this year. It seems like she needs to have one meltdown moment a season and after that she’s more or less on top of her game again. But it would definitely make everyone explode - rusfed, goldenskate, commentators.... weird situation to imagine and I don‘t want to think of what‘d need to happen.

 

[Tolstoj]

I have nothing against Konstantinova, but the only reason she “did better” on the GP than Zhenya was because of the luck of the draw. Zhenya’s score at Skate Canada was only good enough for third place there, but would have placed her second in Helsinki. Konstantinova’s Helsinki score would only have been good enough for fourth place in Canada. There’s also the fact that in their only head to head competition on the GP this season, Zhenya placed higher than Konstantinova. As to PCS, well, people who are not fans of a particular skater or whose favorites were beaten by another skater will often cry “overscored” and “held up!” But it’s the judges’ opinion that counts.

@Autumn Leaves, re your post #33, Konstantinova did not win gold at Russian Nats. She placed fourth.

Different panel, you can't put scores from one competition to the other, maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but if you recap their season so far you have

Konstantinova

GP Finland: SP (3F fall/downgrade), FS (clean)
GP France: SP (1ltz, 3lo-2t messy), FS (clean)
Russian Nationals: SP (clean), FS (clean-ish)


Medvedeva

GP Canada: SP (no combo); FS (clean-ish)
GP France: SP (3f-2t); FS (mistakes and fall on 2a and 3F-3T, no second 3-3)
Russian Nationals: SP (3f-1t, 2a fall); FS (fall in the 2a-3t)

Konstantinova showed some inconsistency, but she proved she can always come back with a strong free skate.

Medvedeva at her best beats Konstantinova, you're right her scores are bigger, but we have never seen her best this season, and it has been a while since we saw her skating a clean program.

Personally i would trust Samodurova more than both of them, but Konstantinova looked more reliable than Medvedeva so far, then i'd decide the third spot at Worlds depending on results at Europeans:

- if Samodurova beats Konstantinova, Sofia gets the third spot
- if Konstantinova beats Samodurova, Stasya gets the third spot
- if neither of them medal at Europeans, Zhenya gets the spot for Worlds.

 

[moriel]

Also, last but not least, Zhenya's scores are declining over the season.
Yes, we may say "she scored 205 at rusnats", but what would be this score if it was an international pannel? It would be very likely 5-7 points less in SP (objectively, her SP was worse than at SC where she scored 60) and 5 points less in FS.
Her best combination of two skates this season was at Autumn Classic.

 

[yume]

Different panel, you can't put scores from one competition to the other, maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but if you recap their season so far you have

Konstantinova

GP Finland: SP (3F fall/downgrade), FS (clean)
GP France: SP (1ltz, 3lo-2t messy), FS (clean)
Russian Nationals: SP (clean), FS (clean-ish)


Medvedeva

GP Canada: SP (no combo); FS (clean-ish)
GP France: SP (3f-2t); FS (mistakes and fall on 2a and 3F-3T, no second 3-3)
Russian Nationals: SP (3f-1t, 2a fall); FS (fall in the 2a-3t)

Konstantinova showed some inconsistency, but she proved she can always come back with a strong free skate.

Medvedeva at her best beats Konstantinova, you're right her scores are bigger, but we have never seen her best this season, and it has been a while since we saw her skating a clean program.

Personally i would trust Samodurova more than both of them, but Konstantinova looked more reliable than Medvedeva so far, then i'd decide the third spot at Worlds depending on results at Europeans:

- if Samodurova beats Konstantinova, Sofia gets the third spot
- if Konstantinova beats Samodurova, Stasya gets the third spot
- if neither of them medal at Europeans, Zhenya gets the spot for Worlds.

That shows that Konstantinova's main issue is the SP. If she skates it like at RN she can score well overall.

Usually fed send the european team to worlds. This season there will surely be an exception (Tuktamysheva). But the chances that we will see at worlds two skaters who were not at europeans are really low, even if Konstantinova and Samodurova don't medal (which has 0,5% chances to happen).
IIRC, in her first senior season Sotskova was sent to worlds despite not medaling at euros, and Radionova winning universiade.

 

[Tutto]

It seems that RusFed, unlike Evgenia fans, accepted the obvious-she is not in top form this season. Was there in the Council decision a little bit of a 'you should have stayed in Russia' message? Possibly... TAT's outbursts I try not to take seriously anymore for my own sanity

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Personally i would trust Samodurova more than both of them, but Konstantinova looked more reliable than Medvedeva so far, then i'd decide the third spot at Worlds depending on results at Europeans:

- if Samodurova beats Konstantinova, Sofia gets the third spot
- if Konstantinova beats Samodurova, Stasya gets the third spot
- if neither of them medal at Europeans, Zhenya gets the spot for Worlds.

I still don't think the third option would be fair, although it is probably what would happen in that case. The two Russians having a bad Euros doesn't change the fact that Evgenia hasn't had a strong result this season. For me, the best thing for Evgenia would actually be to turn down competitions for the next few months and focus solely on working through her technical issues without having to worry about upcoming events. It wouldn't be unheard of for her to comeback strong next season; Irina Slutskaya was left off the World team in 1999 and it lit a fire under her that made her come back better than before.

 

[Tavi...]

Different panel, you can't put scores from one competition to the other, maybe you're right, maybe you're not, but if you recap their season so far you have

Konstantinova

GP Finland: SP (3F fall/downgrade), FS (clean)
GP France: SP (1ltz, 3lo-2t messy), FS (clean)
Russian Nationals: SP (clean), FS (clean-ish)


Medvedeva

GP Canada: SP (no combo); FS (clean-ish)
GP France: SP (3f-2t); FS (mistakes and fall on 2a and 3F-3T, no second 3-3)
Russian Nationals: SP (3f-1t, 2a fall); FS (fall in the 2a-3t)

Konstantinova showed some inconsistency, but she proved she can always come back with a strong free skate.

Medvedeva at her best beats Konstantinova, you're right her scores are bigger, but we have never seen her best this season, and it has been a while since we saw her skating a clean program.

Personally i would trust Samodurova more than both of them, but Konstantinova looked more reliable than Medvedeva so far, then i'd decide the third spot at Worlds depending on results at Europeans:

- if Samodurova beats Konstantinova, Sofia gets the third spot
- if Konstantinova beats Samodurova, Stasya gets the third spot
- if neither of them medal at Europeans, Zhenya gets the spot for Worlds.

You’re absolutely right, scores between panels are not strictly comparable. My point was really that earning a higher placement at one GP and a berth at the GPF doesn’t necessarily mean you’re a better skater than someone who didn’t - which is what some people seem to believe - and that there’s a certain amount of luck involved.

I agree with you that Zhenya’s been struggling this season and we haven’t seen her anywhere near her best yet. Unlike some others, I happen to believe she turned a corner at Russian Nats and is on the upswing. Only time will tell who’s right. Just to be clear, I don’t think Zhenya should have been handed a Euros or Worlds spot on the basis of her FS at Russian Nats. But I would have liked to see her get some kind of an assignment, or at least been given the opportunity to compete for one. And maybe she will, who knows. In any case - and this is not directed at you personally - I’m just really surprised that some people seem so ready to write her off after six months with a new coach. Big changes take time. I think she’s got a lot more to give, and I look forward to seeing it.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Just to be clear, I don’t think Zhenya should have been handed a Euros or Worlds spot on the basis of her FS at Russian Nats. But I would have liked to see her get some kind of an assignment, or at least been given the opportunity to compete for one. And maybe she will, who knows. In any case - and this is not directed at you personally - I’m just really surprised that some people seem so ready to write her off after six months with a new coach. Big changes take time. I think she’s got a lot more to give, and I look forward to seeing it.

If the underlying problem isn't that she lacks enough competitions, I don't see how continuing to skate in events would help when she isn't fully confident in her jumps. In fact, more disappointing results could further erode her confidence. It's really hard to balance competitions, shows, travel, and training to make drastic changes to jump technique. If she's not having to maintain her programs, that gives her more time to focus on areas she needs to address.

 

[rachno2]

I don’t think Medvedeva is done, nor am I writing off her work with Brian. I just don’t think she has done enough for a European/Worlds berth this season. Scoring aside, Konstantinova and especially Samodurova proved themselves as safer bets on the Grand Prix, and they both delivered at Nationals when it mattered. I don’t see how Medvedeva should even be considered, unless both Stasya and Sofia bomb at Europeans AND Zhenya outscores them at Universiade, if she ends up competing there at all.

I also agree that taking the rest of the season off would be better for her mentally.

 

[melgirl25]

I think she needs to do one or two more competitions. If she does one more and it is not successful then I will end it for the season.

 

[moriel]

Over the years, lets compare Euros and Worlds teams, so we have a history of rusfed decisionmaking

Conclusions: Rusfed sticks to RusNats results most of the time.
When they can, they send the same team for both Worlds and Euros.
If someone WDs, they replace it with next in line from rusnats.
If there are less spots at Worlds, they sent two best from Euros.
It is better to skip rusnats than to bomb rusnats.

Exceptions are in bold below


Men
2018 Two best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 2 spots)
2017 Two best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 2 spots)
2016 Two best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 2 spots)
2015 Two best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 2 spots)
2014 Top finisher at rusnats was sent (3 vs 1 spots) despite being 5th at Euros (i suppose they tried to compensate Kovtun for not getting Sochi)
2013 Best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 1 spots)
2012 One man WD from Worlds, other two were sent (3 vs 2 spots)
2011 Best at Euros went to Worlds (2 vs 1 spots)
2010 One man WD from Worlds, the next in line from rusnats was sent
2009 Two best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 2 spots)

Ladies
2018 One girl WD from Worlds, the next in line from rusnats was sent
2017 Same team
2016 Same team
2015 Same team
2014 Top 3 senior rusnats finishers were sent to Euros, for Worlds, Sotnikova probably chose not to go and Leonova was replaced with Pogorilaya (next in line from rusnats) (3 vs 2 spots)
2013 3rd senior at rusnats got World and 4th senior at rusnats got Euros
2012 Same team
2011 Same team
2010 Two best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 2 spots)
2009 Best at Euros went to Worlds (2 vs 1 spots)

Pairs
2018 One team WD from Worlds, next in line from rusnats was sent
2017 Same team
2016 One team WD from Worlds, next in line from rusnats was sent (the #2 team at rusnats was injured and skipped both worlds and euros)
2015 One team WD from Worlds, next in line from rusnats was sent
2014 One team WD from Worlds, next in line from rusnats was sent
2013 Bazarova/Larionov skipped Rusnats and Euros due to injury. They got Worlds and the 3rd finisher at rusnats got Euros.
2012 Kavaguti/Smirnov skipped Rusnats and Euros due to injury. They got Worlds and the 3rd finisher at rusnats got Euros.
2011 V/T could not compete internationally yet at Euros. They got Worlds and the 4th finisher at rusnats got Euros.
2010 Same team
2009 One team WD from Worlds, no clue how the replacement was selected

Dance
2018 One team WD from Worlds, other two were sent (3 vs 2 spots)
2017 Two best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 2 spots)
2016 One team WD from Worlds, other two were sent (3 vs 2 spots)
2015 Same team
2014 Two best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 2 spots)
2013 Same team
2012 Same team
2011 Two best at Euros went to Worlds (3 vs 2 spots)
2010 One team WD from Worlds, next in line from rusnats was sent
2009 Best team from euros and a team that skipped Euros and Rusnats due to injury were sent

 

[Tavi...]

If the underlying problem isn't that she lacks enough competitions, I don't see how continuing to skate in events would help when she isn't fully confident in her jumps. In fact, more disappointing results could further erode her confidence. It's really hard to balance competitions, shows, travel, and training to make drastic changes to jump technique. If she's not having to maintain her programs, that gives her more time to focus on areas she needs to address.

I think the thing is that we don’t really know what the underlying problems are, so even though I said I’d like to see her get an assignment, she and Brian may feel it’s the wrong choice, and turn one down if offered. We all have our ideas of what’s best for her, and it’s fine for us to talk about it, but in the end I think we should respect what they think is best.

@rachno2 - I guess I have a hard time with the idea that she didn’t do enough for an assignment, especially one like Universiade. The US, for example, often splits assignments. But we’ll see what happens.