2019 US Nationals Senior Men's SP

[century2009]

Nathan is just impressive with his quads and elements. It was executed so well.

4Flip was stunning. And the risking 4T3T in the 2nd half done like butter.

Jason was smooth and also well done. I just want a quad from him because we know he can do these with his eyes closed and want him to challenge himself.

Vincent was also solid, but he is lucky that the judges dont have NBCs camera because Johnny is right that the 4S looked under as well. But he stayed strong, and continues to at least improve.

 

[bobbob]

I feel like the penalty for an UR is too much. I wish the judges would be harsher across the board on the calls, but at the same time, I don't think slightly not retracting your leg should be worth 7 points (in Vincent's case).

 

[gottadance]

I feel like the penalty for an UR is too much. I wish the judges would be harsher across the board on the calls, but at the same time, I don't think slightly not retracting your leg should be worth 7 points (in Vincent's case).

totally agree .

 

[NoNameFace]

You always describe skating so beautifully.

Ah, all the fuzzy feels, thanks so much! I try my best, with skaters like Jason words are flowing like water, no control

 

[Seren]

I feel like the penalty for an UR is too much. I wish the judges would be harsher across the board on the calls, but at the same time, I don't think slightly not retracting your leg should be worth 7 points (in Vincent's case).

I disagree. Under rotations aren't fully rotated jumps, and I don't think they should be scored that way. I feel like if the penalty was too little then skaters would be less likely to try to fully rotate their jumps. I'd rather see a skater with 2 rotated quads than 5 underrotated ones. (I like Vincent, this is not meant to be a dig at him).

 

[bobbob]

I disagree. Under rotations aren't fully rotated jumps, and I don't think they should be scored that way. I feel like if the penalty was too little then skaters would be less likely to try to fully rotate their jumps. I'd rather see a skater with 2 rotated quads than 5 underrotated ones. (I like Vincent, this is not meant to be a dig at him).

The problem is that skaters are double-dinged for URs. You get a lowered base value (which is fair), but then you also get dinged on the GOE. Each time a jump gets called UR, the judges go back to lower their GOE. That doesn't make sense to me because the skater already got penalized for underrotating the jump, and you are judging the GOE on the element performed, which is already an underrotated jump and thus you should not mark off for being UR in the GOE. Same for flutzes; you are judging the GOE on a flutz, not a lutz, so having a wrong edge take off should not be a characteristic to take off GOE; it is an inherent part of the element itself. It should be possible to get good GOE on an UR jump.

 

[lzxnl]

The problem is that skaters are double-dinged for URs. You get a lowered base value (which is fair), but then you also get dinged on the GOE. Each time a jump gets called UR, the judges go back to lower their GOE. That doesn't make sense to me because the skater already got penalized for underrotating the jump, and you are judging the GOE on the element performed, which is already an underrotated jump and thus you should not mark off for being UR in the GOE. Same for flutzes; you are judging the GOE on a flutz, not a lutz, so having a wrong edge take off should not be a characteristic to take off GOE; it is an inherent part of the element itself. It should be possible to get good GOE on an UR jump.

Slightly off-topic, but a 4A< is almost the same base value as a 3A. That irks me.

 

[Carolla5501]

Does anybody besides me feel like there was an empty hole in the Men's competition....as in, with no Adam, Max, Ross, and Grant, it was like we were missing an entire warm-up group?

Nope. It’s time for new men to shine

 

[Bookseller]

Jason truly adds another level of valuing skating as a whole experience for me - one of very few skaters from ALL disciplines I truly enjoy watching just skating around, interacting with music and perform. The quality he adds to every little move he makes is so strong yet understated, but it makes you just feel so...I don't know, satisfied? 'Sated' with what your eyes just saw? He certainly makes skating a muli-dimensional experience, rich one, developing one, never static. The sleekness he has, nuance, sharpness to every little transition, the finish by his hand or head just compliments choreography, music so much. And I love composed, focused yet relaxed and sensual expression.

It is incredibly satisfying to see him starting to bear fruits of his decision to move forward and change environment. He grew for me into a skater more self-assured about his qualities and how to develop them further, how to use them better; he also challenged himself with different image we used to associate him with and with less exuberant reactions maybe, saving that conserved energy more, still charming and affectionate, mostly towards skating & interacting through it with as many people as possible. I think this is his biggest strenght - he really has a way to get to people, intrigue them, wanting them to get to know him better, to understand his skating philosophy.

Thank you for this! You said it all so beautifully. And it's true.

 

[karne]

Oh...today I felt magic. Today I was taken from my seat and carried away into an enchanted world. Jason was so perfect. Everything he did was perfect. It was more beautiful and wonderful and magnificent than I had ever dreamed watching Jason live would be. I knew I could never be disappointed in him but oh, he exceeded my every expectation.

Nathan was also very good, his clear enjoyment in the Caravan SP was quite infectious. He seemed to have taken care to look after his spins and steps where he lost points at IdF. Not a fan of the costume. It looks a bit weird.

I thought Vincent's skating seemed overall a bit bigger, and a little faster; of course, any skater would suffer having to skate immediately after Jason's perfection, but he handled the occasion well and did not seem put off by the noise and energy in the arena. I will only say that he landed the 4Lz<-3T right in front of me - and I was only sitting a couple of rows back - and it was very obvious that it was short. I am surprised they did not also call the 4S. US Nationals.

I am still extremely annoyed, however, by the fact that Jason scored lower PCS than Nathan. There are no excuses for that and that is utterly disgraceful judging.

Otherwise, I liked most of everyone. Particularly I was struck by Andrew Austin, who I'd never seen before (or even heard of before, to be honest). He had such a lovely simple joy in his skating that made it a pleasure.

 

[karne]

Does anybody besides me feel like there was an empty hole in the Men's competition....as in, with no Adam, Max, Ross, and Grant, it was like we were missing an entire warm-up group?

I did feel this. At the end of the day, the gap from Vincent to Tomoki in fourth is sixteen points.

I should have liked to see Max go over 100. As long as he is happy. I hope he is having a good time in Oklahoma.

 

[Ichatdelune]

Top 3 is as expected, cheering for Jason to have a clean free and stay where he is Just some short thoughts about the skaters I watched:

Jimmy Ma: What a showman, the step sequence was so fun and energetic. Charlie White said he looks as if he's trying to make the crowd love him if not the judges (can't remember the precise wording), he's 100% succeeding at that. Shame about the pop, really.

Camden Pulkinen: Another one I was rooting for, not 100% clean but I'd say that was a solid senior debut. I do love the commitment and emotion he shows, hope he has a clean free and places well.

Andrew Torgashev: Oh why does he have such great step sequences and performance skills when he can't land them jumps :sad4: Hope he does land them in the free, I can't help but root for him.

Tomoki Hiwatashi: The last time I saw his short was at JGPF, he did not have a good skate then. He did better here, although the 3A could've been better and some spins were wonky (nice biellmann though) he did get every element. And his split leap is pretty impressive (I would've been wowed if he hadn't skated after Jason and his majestic split leap). I prefer Camden, but good for him to be on 4th!

Vincent Zhou: He landed everything (and to a person like me who can't tell underrotations that was a clean performance), but he did seem focused on the jumps. Or maybe I'm being harsh because he skated after Jason. But overall nicely done, may he rotate every jump in his free.

Nathan Chen: He came to win this again, didn't he. And he is selling that short, I'm still not completely sold but that was a compelling sale. Somebody on twitter said that his short and Junhwan's free are the two "What were you on Shae-Lynn Bourne" programs, but the skaters are selling them like hotcakes for sure

Jason Brown: Simply magical. Beautiful jumps, lovely spins, and his skating is just sublime. Do I even need to say anything about his performance? And his reaction in the KnC is just :luv17:

 

[bobbob]

I am still extremely annoyed, however, by the fact that Jason scored lower PCS than Nathan. There are no excuses for that and that is utterly disgraceful judging.

.

Nathan skates much faster with better skating skills than Jason, and has a far more packed program in terms of choreography and transitions (Jason does a lot of 2 footed skating and crossovers). Jason does have better posture and flexibility and overall his movements are more aesthetically pleasing, with great smoothness and flow. Internationally their PCS are about the same. Both were clean. I don't see it being a clear cut decision.

 

[cohen-esque]

Nathan skates much faster with better skating skills than Jason, and has a far more packed program in terms of choreography and transitions (Jason does a lot of 2 footed skating and crossovers).

...what?

 

[century2009]

The PCs were close between them so not sure why people are complaining about.

And you have to give it to Nathan as he does have very strong skating skills and a very technically difficult program executed so well. It was very impressive.

I still cannot believe that 4T3T. I havent seen that done so well and same for his 4F.

It really is hard to say he did not deserve to be the higher PCs when the program was done so well.

 

[Tavi...]

Nathan skates much faster with better skating skills than Jason, and has a far more packed program in terms of choreography and transitions (Jason does a lot of 2 footed skating and crossovers). Jason does have better posture and flexibility and overall his movements are more aesthetically pleasing, with great smoothness and flow. Internationally their PCS are about the same. Both were clean. I don't see it being a clear cut decision.

Err...Charlie White said Jason is an ice dancer’s dream, so I’m not sure he’d agree with you.

Both skaters are executing the choreography they were given. Nathan’s music is fast and fun and upbeat and the footwork emphasizes flow. Jason’s music is slower and angsty and not in the least upbeat, and the footwork emphasizes deep edges and turns and balance challenging positions, through which he maintains speed. All of those things are components of SS.

I enjoyed Nathan’s performance a lot, but for the record, he is also doing a lot of crossovers and two foot skating in this program, and Jason’s program has more transitions now than it did at the beginning of the beginning of the season.

 

[DSQ]

Where the thread about the Men’s Free Skate?

 

[karne]

Nathan skates much faster with better skating skills than Jason, and has a far more packed program in terms of choreography and transitions (Jason does a lot of 2 footed skating and crossovers). Jason does have better posture and flexibility and overall his movements are more aesthetically pleasing, with great smoothness and flow. Internationally their PCS are about the same. Both were clean. I don't see it being a clear cut decision.

*perplexed expression*

Did we watch the same event?

The point is that their PCS shouldn't be about the same. Jason is superior to Nathan in every facet of the PCS mark. Even the international judges agree. And yet at US Nationals Nathan is ahead of Jason. Disgraceful.

 

[Mohacz]

Where the thread about the Men’s Free Skate?

I've just opened it here: https://goldenskate.com/forum/showt...Nationals-Senior-Men-FS&p=2323585#post2323585

 

[noskates]

I think Nathan's technical skills outweigh Jason's just on the basis of his content but there is no universe where I think his skating skills overall are better than Jason's. Nathan still has poor posture and while his interpretation of his music is showing vast improvement, he doesn't have the smoothness and flow that Jason has. Yes Nathan's jumps are better but his spin positions and his in-between steps are still works in progress. It's just my opinion but obviously a majority of the judges agree.