Kwan and Slutskaya each without Olympic Gold, does it seem picture is wrong?

[heyang]

I'm sure that Brian Orser, Kurt Browning and Elvis Stojko would like to know the answer to that question as well....

Well, at least Brian can claim that it was truly a Battle and that he gave an outstanding performance. He and Boitano had a real rivalry going and they both gave wonderful performances. Neither man was the clear favorite that night, IMO.

 

[slutskayafan21]

I don’t know whether ethnicity plays a role among U.S. fans or not. Some people thought that Kristi Yamaguchi did not reap the kind of endorsement bonanza that might have been expected for a U.S. ladies Olympic champ.

Olympic bronze medalist Nancy Kerrigan, a silver or bronze medalist at each of the major Championships Kristi won behind Kristi-1991 Worlds, 1992 Nationals, 1992 Olympics, 1992 Worlds; actually far outdid Kristi in endorsements in the year following the 1992 Olympics. I remember there was alot of talk about that happening at the time, it was speculated part of the reason was Kristi was Asian descent.

 

[attyfan]

In 2004 and 2005 she definitely lost favor with some judges by totally ignoring the Grand Prix.

~Z

Even when MK was doing the Grand Prix, she was very rarely assigned to a European event. Her GPs would be SA and SC (and, when she did a 3rd one, it might be in Europe, but I think she was set for NHK when she had to withdraw due to her toe fracture). Even when SC didn't pick her, MK got assigned to SA and CoC. I heard somewhere, though, that in the mid '90's, when MK's third GP assignment were often in Europe, she was more popular there. I also heard that Michelle used to be extremely popular in Japan -- especially after '98 Olys.

 

[gio]

I think there are lots of reasons.
Sasha often chose music like Bright Eyes and Carmen. Plus, her classic “balletic” style struck a chord among many fans worldwide.

I think that could be a major reason. Sasha skated to Carmen, Malaguena, Dark Eyes, Rota's Romeo and Juliet. Music that is extremely popular here in Europe. When she interpreted Malaguena and Dark Eyes, she was flirting with the public, and doing the diva. The public could have seen Katarina Witt in her. IMO
Sasha was more similiar in style of interpretation to Witt, than Kwan. That may be a factor.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Could you give me the link to that thread, or explain me in your opinion what is the reason that Europeans prefer Sasha over Michelle?

I am not of the opinion that Europeans favor Cohen over Kwan. I just got the feeling that they were unhappy with Kwan's reluctance to skate GPs at all. Cohen was in the limelight then, and with Irina ill, she looked to be the next World Champion. It was now, no Kwan for the European public and Wow moves from Sasha for the public.

Kwan was skating her same contents-of-program from 2002-2004 which we later learned that a bad hip was getting worse. I believe if the family did not rely on Kwan to bring in the dough to pay for the new rink, she could have gotten that hip fixed right after Olys, and after a year of recouperation would be back to her 3x3s, and more technically competitive. What's one year off the ice? Everyone seems to take it.

Meanwhile (back on the ice) there was Sasha raking in all the Bravas for her wow moves. Sasha was the talk of the arena in Dortmund after the QR and SP. It wasn't until the following year that Irina's illnes seemingly got bettter and she resumed being Europe's favorite. Sasha, though was definitely favored over the missing Kwan, but not over Irina by 2005.

Joe

 

[evenstar]

Wasn't the last Grand Prix event Michelle Kwan competed in at Skate America '02? After the '02 Olympics Michelle didn't really compete anywhere outside of the U.S.A, apart from Dortmund and Moscow worlds. Maybe that's why Michelle didn't have as many fans in Europe as she did in North America. After the '02-'03 season, I feel like international judges kind of gave up on Michelle.

 

[Mathman]

I'm not sure about the judges, but I do think that the true died-in-the-wool Michelle fans are those that followed her career since she was a child, cheered her growth into a complete artist/athlete, rode the emotional roller coaster of triumph and disappointment with her and generally felt a personal stake in her life.

I would guess that many European fans (American, too) didn't really pay much attention to Michelle until she was already established as an iconic champion. For people who started following the sport closely only after 2000 or so, it would be natural for them to take an interest in the new up-and-comers like Sasha and to root for them to shake things up by taking on the challenge of toppling the champ.

 

[jennylovskt]

After 1998 Olympics, some media (I didn't think it was a major media.) said about Tara won over Michelle - American defeated Chinese. I was puzzled and offended. They both were US citizens, they both were Americans. From this we could see that the prejudice was/is there. It will surface once a while. Michelle could become a legend in US is the victory of overcoming this prejudice in a way. I admire her the abilities of holding it up for so long and become a role model for many youngsters to come.

 

[R.D.]

For people who started following the sport closely only after 2000 or so, it would be natural for them to take an interest in the new up-and-comers like Sasha and to root for them to shake things up by taking on the challenge of toppling the champ.

This would be me. I guess part of the reason I never really got into the Kwan fandom was that I didn't follow her entire career. I only got to see her after 2002, which seems to be when things started going downhill for her.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Wasn't the last Grand Prix event Michelle Kwan competed in at Skate America '02? After the '02 Olympics Michelle didn't really compete anywhere outside of the U.S.A, apart from Dortmund and Moscow worlds. Maybe that's why Michelle didn't have as many fans in Europe as she did in North America. After the '02-'03 season, I feel like international judges kind of gave up on Michelle.

You have said it more succinctly than I did. She lost the grandeur of her personna on the ice except for die hard fans, but understandably now since learning of the chronic hip problem. My question is why wasn't something done about it after the 06 Olys? Another Kwan mystery.

Joe

 

[R.D.]

After 1998 Olympics, some media (I didn't think it was a major media.) said about Tara won over Michelle - American defeated Chinese. I was puzzled and offended. They both were US citizens, they both were Americans. From this we could see that the prejudice was/is there. It will surface once a while. Michelle could become a legend in US is the victory of overcoming this prejudice in a way. I admire her the abilities of holding it up for so long and become a role model for many youngsters to come.

Where was that? I thought I heard that it was the title "American defeats Kwan" which BTW I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It was true...Tara is American, is she not, and she beat Kwan, a fellow American, didn't she? (Unless the context/tone of the article was insulting towards MK).

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I would guess that many European fans (American, too) didn't really pay much attention to Michelle until she was already established as an iconic champion. For people who started following the sport closely only after 2000 or so, it would be natural for them to take an interest in the new up-and-comers like Sasha and to root for them to shake things up by taking on the challenge of toppling the champ.

Good post, MM. That's about the rationale I give to those who had a distaste of Kwan's fans. They just knew very little but sounded off like they knew everything about figure skating .

jennylovskt After 1998 Olympics, some media (I didn't think it was a major media.) said about Tara won over Michelle - American defeated Chinese. I was puzzled and offended. They both were US citizens, they both were Americans. From this we could see that the prejudice was/is there. It will surface once a while. Michelle could become a legend in US is the victory of overcoming this prejudice in a way. I admire her the abilities of holding it up for so long and become a role model for many youngsters to come.

It just shows how some biased publications write their stories. She was already a legend after 98 Olys when her fans refused to think of her as loosing the gold She continues to be, imo. Just putting her name in any thread will get responses. (Mostly from non Kwan fans.) Only a legend lives up to its name.

Joe

 

[gio]

I only got to see her after 2002, which seems to be when things started going downhill for her.

Still, my favorite MK programs are Concierto de Aranjuez (2003 LP) and The Feeling Begins (2003 and 2004 SP). But I'm a fan of her early programs too (1995-1998). There were the programs (LPs) of the 1998/99 and 1999/00 seasons that I didn't like very much (??? and Red Violin). In those two seasons I prefered MB Otonal LP and Scene D'Amour SP.
Overall I prefer Michelle over Sasha and Ira. Atypical European?

 

[nymkfan51]

I would like to share a brief story with you about Tara beating MK in 1998. My elderly uncle at the time was asking me a question about the ladies skating event in Nagano, and I answered Michelle Kwan (thinking that is who he was referring to) ... instead he replied to me " no, the American girl "

I wanted to scream at him, but he was my uncle and very elderly ... so I held my tongue ... except to tell him that Michelle Kwan was every bit as American as Tara Lipinski. It just brought home to me how much bias was still out there. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't heard it myself.

Anyway, thanks for listening to my boring little family story.

 

[Zuranthium]

There is a ton of bias still out there. My parents are the same way. Must be why I haven't talked to them in...3 years. *shrug*

~Z

 

[gio]

If Michelle is Chinese, then Tara is Polish.

 

[Zuranthium]

Ah, but that misses the point. The prejudice is in colored skin vs. white.

~Z

 

[Mathman]

IIRC the exact quotes were:

MSNBC Internet news site, 1998: "American beats out Kwan."

And:

Seattle Times, 2002 (second headline, below "Hughes is Good as Gold"): "American outshines Kwan, Slutskaya in Skating Surprise."

 

[R.D.]

Still, my favorite MK programs are Concierto de Aranjuez (2003 LP) and The Feeling Begins (2003 and 2004 SP). But I'm a fan of her early programs too (1995-1998). There were the programs (LPs) of the 1998/99 and 1999/00 seasons that I didn't like very much (??? and Red Violin). In those two seasons I prefered MB Otonal LP and Scene D'Amour SP.
Overall I prefer Michelle over Sasha and Ira. Atypical European?

I can't speak for how Europeans feel in general towards the American skaters but I hear that a lot among skating fans. But each person regardless of where he or she is from will have their own personal preferences.

Z- still getting a chuckle out of your sig

 

[Ravyn Rant]

Where was that? I thought I heard that it was the title "American defeats Kwan" which BTW I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. It was true...Tara is American, is she not, and she beat Kwan, a fellow American, didn't she? (Unless the context/tone of the article was insulting towards MK).

When I read those articles after Nagano ("American Lipinski beats Kwan"), I just assumed that while everyone knew who Michelle was and what country she skated for, Tara still needed to be identified by her country for all those folks that only pay attention to FS every four years.
xoxo
Rave