2019-20 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[nussnacker]

Nope. Not going to do it.

Because next you will expect us to fully embrace the "metric system".

Too much of a slippery slope.

join the metric ahem... the darker side!

 

[colormyworld240]

I like beautiful jumps regardless of the times a lady rotates in the air. I find Kamila Valieva’s 4T beautiful. Sasha’s quads are ok. They are certainly better than a lot of ladies triples. ( I think Liza’s jumps and Rika’s jumps are prettier, though). My favorite jump of Sasha’s is actually her 3lz3lo not her quads. It’s beautiful.

I don’t think all women need to skate like ice princesses but if Sasha wants to skate like the men ( or like the strong lady she is ��)she needs to improve her SS and performance. She would not do well PCS wise against men like Yuzuru, Nathan, Kolyada, Shoma... So, by all means she should be herself! But, she should still improve the non-jump elements of her skating. ( I think she is working on this —her spins are better this year)

Despite that, Sasha, if clean, will definitely win lots of competitions. She deserves to. However, a clean Rika can definitely challenge a clean Sasha since I think she would deservedly get slightly higher GOE and PCS and the BV is not that different. And, Sasha lost to both Anna and Aliona last year even when she landed quads because she was messy. She can definitely lose to Alina who will get higher PCS and GOE. Honestly, she could lose to many girls if she isn’t clean. If she is, long live Queen Sasha ( only Rika might challenge her this year) ! I just love Sasha’s fight and determination. She makes me smile even if her skating isn’t my favorite!

Re Yuzuru and Shoma, though, they are more graceful and elegant skaters - so I don't think Sasha is trying to skate like a man, she's just trying to skate like a powerful non-lyrical woman (and quirky, playful, energetic depending on the program). But I agree with basically everything you're saying. I just don't understand the outrage that if she were to win skating her programs clean that it would be undeserving. Especially using PCS as an argument without crunching the numbers because her skating style isn't to someone's liking. Yes she could work on her SS and her elements, and she is, but in the current field with the skills that she has right now, her skates should have her winning over everyone (except possibly Rika and Anna) if she's clean. It's not underserving and it's not a conspiracy, the numbers add up. She's not a few points above in BV, she's a whopping 20 points above the typical no quad/no 3A program. What I have trouble understanding is how anyone thinks skating skills and performance is making up those 20 points. It's not like she should be getting 0s.... That's before even considering GOEs on her elements (which are quite good) and quad factoring. The "yeah she has quads but she shouldn't be beating a more artistic (subjective) triple-jumping skater with good skating skills argument that appears so much here).

It's crazy that I find myself defending Sasha hypothetically beating all my favourites; I just think she's been treated very unfairly and she is very deserving, even if she has things she needs to work on.

 

[Orlov]

Well, 8 000 millions have an other standard - why not convert to "military time" and be one in the gang?topic:

dude, these people still live with these archaic foot and pounds, and you care about such trifles

UPD. topic:

People do not convert something that is as ingrained into daily life as time unless it becomes easier for them use a different system within their own culture. (Perhaps one day there will be a strong enough reason for this to happen. But this is not that day). Ask yourself why all the world does not speak the same language. And move on.

Ohh, you so wrong. To continue this analogy, the whole world still speaks the same language - there are only three countries in the world that still have not switched to the metric system - the USA, Liberia and Myanmar. I am a physicist by training, language of Exact Sciences - metric system. (I always felt sorry for your physicists because of course they use the metric system, but they are also tied to this archaic used in your everyday life). After all, you live in the metric system, even without knowing it yourself!

In 1890, the United States received copies of the international meter standard and the international kilogram standard. According to the Mendenhall Ordinance (named after the superintendent of measures and weights), metric units were accepted as the fundamental standard for length and mass in the United States. The yard was defined as 3600/3937 meters, and the pound as 0.4535924277 kilograms.

In 1959, English-speaking countries made some clarifications: 1 yard was equated to 0.9144 meters, and 1 pound to 0.4535923. That is, formally, the United States has already adopted the metric system as the standard for measures and weights for 145 years and for about 120 years everything in meters and kilograms should have been measured in this country.

So, now your metric is a distorted metric system. And it's pointless. The real metric system is logical and simple and relies on the decimal system (thank God, at least in this you are like all the inhabitants of the planet, and do not live with the 60-decimal system like the Sumerians ). In the United States, for example, there are at least nine definitions of the term “ton”: short ton, displacement ton, refrigeration ton, freight ton, register ton, metric ton, assay ton, ton of coal equivalent. Madness

As a man of science, I wish the Americans as quickly as possible to switch to the universal language of mankind - the metric system.

 

[Haikush]

I so agree with everything here. I am very confused when people say Zhenya has progressed, because I think it is the other way around. She is regressing imo.
I am no expert, but to me it seems like she is slow and drags her legs across the ice. Maybe she need to work out more and build more leg muscles. Kaetlyn Osmond did after that horrible accident and she was stronger than ever winning the World title and Olympic bronze. With Zhenya, I see no strength at all though she is a fighter at heart.

As for the artistry, I've never been a fan, and I certainly don't see any improvements there either.

I will be very surprised if she manages to make the GPF, Europeans or Worlds this year. I just don't see it happen. But we will see.

LOL...of course you don't see any improvements, you're not a fan. Alina sure drags her legs, is actually slower than Zhenya (she has greatly improved her speed and glide. Thsi is an objective observation). Also, Alina is hunched over, has choppy footwork and her jumps are not as good as before

 

[PiggytailProdigy]

Regarding pre-rotation and toepick takeoff, many people claim that Berestovskaya has the best lutz takeoff regarding these two aspects. I remember there was statistics calculating jr ladies' pre-rotation for every jump. Can anyone do one for Berestovskaya so that we could see her statistics for other jumps as well?

 

[colormyworld240]

LOL...of course you don't see any improvements, you're not a fan. Alina sure drags her legs, is actually slower than Zhenya (she has greatly improved her speed and glide. Thsi is an objective observation). Also, Alina is hunched over, has choppy footwork and her jumps are not as good as before

It's a good thing Alina doesn't hear you. She's too busy working on improving her skating and hunching/chopping/terribly jumping her way to World and Olympic medals. Sounds very simple maybe we should all give it a try and drag ourselves to an olympic title - of course she must be the best huncher and chopper as there was only one title at each of those competitions. Don't worry, she hasn't retired yet.

 

[monochrom3]

Also, Alina is hunched over, has choppy footwork and her jumps are not as good as before

Its one thing to be mad at someone when they don't agree with your opinions of your favorites. Its another to drag another skater into the argument altogether. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Lets not get into this argument for the hundredth time. For God's sake.

 

[monochrom3]

Going into more lighthearted territory so this place doesn't get derailed into tomorrow again with the same arguments. What do you guys think about the upcoming seasons' costumes?

Anna's costume change in the FS was lovely with the spin, but I wasn't personally a fan of the blue dress. I loved the red one, but the blue one felt like it was a little too seethrough, especially in the skirt portion. They stuck a floral motif right in the front and back that looked really awkward to me. I've always loved Olga's creations, and I don't think they've changed a costume designer so I'm hoping this isn't quite the final dress and that the final dress will blow us all away.

Alina's Me Voy costume was nice at the ice show over the summer, but its too simple for me and I think they'll be adding to it, so I hope we see a little more sparkle ala Kim Yuna's Roxanne Tango exhibition dress in 2012 (which had the same color scheme and similar cut)

I liked Sofia and Stasia's Moulin Rouge FS dresses at test skates! Stasia's red dress is certainly a standout, sleek and chic and suits her tall frame well. I liked Sofia's dress but I didn;t think it suited the programme as well, even though it was a really nice dress (like if you made that into a dress outside for daily wear I'm pretty sure I'd rush to buy it).

How about the other girls, any hopes, ideas for the new season's costumes?

 

[ruga]

Going into more lighthearted territory so this place doesn't get derailed into tomorrow again with the same arguments. What do you guys think about the upcoming seasons' costumes?

Anna's costume change in the FS was lovely with the spin, but I wasn't personally a fan of the blue dress. I loved the red one, but the blue one felt like it was a little too seethrough, especially in the skirt portion. They stuck a floral motif right in the front and back that looked really awkward to me. I've always loved Olga's creations, and I don't think they've changed a costume designer so I'm hoping this isn't quite the final dress and that the final dress will blow us all away.

Alina's Me Voy costume was nice at the ice show over the summer, but its too simple for me and I think they'll be adding to it, so I hope we see a little more sparkle ala Kim Yuna's Roxanne Tango exhibition dress in 2012 (which had the same color scheme and similar cut)

How about the other girls, any hopes, ideas for the new season's costumes?

Anna's dress wasn't made by Olga. They apparently have another dress maker. She made Kamila's dress as well. Someone posted a link here but I don't remember right now.

I generally like dresses that look like normal pieces of clothing rather than sparkly leotard with skirt. So I loved Alina's dress. Black color and lace details give the costume some sort of maturity needed for Me Voy.

I hope Aliona gets two new costumes. The one from Angel was bit weird and I just want to see a new one for Twilight. It's not the most important thing but it would be a bit of disappointment if she skated with the same ones.

 

[nussnacker]

I liked both Anna's and Alina's costumes! I think Alina's lace costume looks very unique and elegant, I'm glad they are keeping it!
Anna's and Kamila's costumes were made by Milena Bobkova(she designed a lot of Mao's iconic costumes). It was a great idea to work with Milena and not to push all the work on Ryabenko, she's probably overloaded with TeamTutberidze requests by now
Milena's ideas are so interesting, the butterfly on Kamila's dress was a major hit + the way she executed Anna's dress is also incredible.

I'm curious about Sasha's Dany dress and Alyona's twilight is Olga doing them? or Milena? :think:
I really liked the color of Stanislava's dress, such a bright shade of red! but it looked a little too simplistic for me, I preferred her SP dress over FS dress

 

[DenissVFan]

When you casually open the Russian ladies thread to find out a debate on military time and the metric system is in full swing. Is this bagged milk 2.0? ��

Good luck to the skaters competing in Italy and Russia this week.

 

[karina17]

When you casually open the Russian ladies thread to find out a debate on military time and the metric system is in full swing. Is this bagged milk 2.0? ��

Good luck to the skaters competing in Italy and Russia this week.

Listen, metric vs imperial discourse is still better than "*insert name* is done" discourse

 

[katymay]

I guess we can't include Liu yet but what about ET and her quad and 3A's or Rika - these ladies could beat Trusova and the Russian quadsterswith their pcs and tech. Kind of odd to think the current world bronze medallist, olympic silver medallist and two time world champion is not even a blip on the radar right now. I am not sure Evgenia can pull a miracle like last year.

Rika may be 10 points ahead after the short program. That hasn't seem to bother Sasha before, so we'll see. You also can't discount Young You, who also has an inconsistent 3A and inconsistent 4T, but if she hits either-or and with her skating skills.... A perfect Rika will be difficult to beat by anyone, she has everything. ET also may be ahead in the short, but not by much.

 

[tempo]

Well, the rumours has appeared, that during today's practice in Chelyabinsk Kamila has jumped 4T-2T and solo 4T.
Sorry, can't find the source or any video. So it's just a rumour atm.

 

[Fool]

Rika may be 10 points ahead after the short program. That hasn't seem to bother Sasha before, so we'll see. You also can't discount Young You, who also has an inconsistent 3A and inconsistent 4T, but if she hits either-or and with her skating skills.... A perfect Rika will be difficult to beat by anyone, she has everything. ET also may be ahead in the short, but not by much.

How does 3A make you lead by 10 points over someone who did 2A? Unless you're implying falls for non-Rika skaters.

 

[macy]

Probably. Still, you forgot that quads GOEs costs more due to percentage nature - and Sasha has three of them. If she lands them as well as it was at test skates - they are easily +3-+4 jumps. It's ~4 points per jump - i.e. 12 point of advantage only on GOEs. Only on first three jumps. It's like an extra quad.

Also, people already calculated showed content at test skates and their assumed protocols. It's really interesting food for thought, so to speak (I am not agree with some estimates there though):
https://www.sports.ru/tribuna/blogs/bezmnoefk/2570850.html

those PCS scores are a joke

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I think that Alina's combined GOE will be higher. My take is that Alina will start free program with about 7 point margin after the short program (something like 82 vs. 75) If Sasha lands 3 clean quads she will have about 20 point BV advantage. She will lose about 6 points in pcs (68 vs. 74) and 2 points in GOE (15 vs. 17). She will win about 5 points. But if she falls on a quad or a combo and Alina is clean then it is possible that she is going to lose.

It will be higher on the judges sheet, but that will bring the same amount of points to the total score as with Sasha's total elements score with lower GOE (if both skate 'clean'). Because GOE is now translated in total score as percentage of the base value (for example element of BV 5 with +4GOE bring the same GOE points to the total score as element of 6.6 BV with +3GOE). So BV of 80 points with average +3 GOE will be translated in similar amount of GOE points as average +4 GOE of BV 60. (edit: That's also one of the reason why BV of the jumps is lowered a bit, because +5 GOE (50% of BV) on element of BV 11 will actualy bring you 5.5 points in GOE more)

 

[flanker]

Rika may be 10 points ahead after the short program. That hasn't seem to bother Sasha before, so we'll see. You also can't discount Young You, who also has an inconsistent 3A and inconsistent 4T, but if she hits either-or and with her skating skills.... A perfect Rika will be difficult to beat by anyone, she has everything. ET also may be ahead in the short, but not by much.

C'mon, we have heard the very same predictions last year, would you ever learn? Rika doesn't have everything when she doesn't have reliability. At all. I'm fascinated by this damage control that tries to turn decesive victory into a bitter defeat and reverse. If skating competitions were won on discussion threads, Alina, Sasha and any other Eteri girl would have never ever medaled. But the competitions are won on the ice and we repeatedly saw that despite many people who refuse to admit reality they are the best and they confirmed it. Not by words but by skating.

 

[zounger]

How does 3A make you lead by 10 points over someone who did 2A? Unless you're implying falls for non-Rika skaters.

In this case depends who do you compare. I think the quoted post was referring to Alexandra. In that case if you compare Rika's record score 83.97 with a 3A compared to Alexandra's 74.74 then the difference indeed is around 9 points. But this is somehow misleading because we are comparing a junior to senior PCS.

If you compare Alina and Rika, then 3A makes around 2 points difference.

On an average I would say 3A adds around 6 points more.

 

[Fool]

In this case depends who do you compare. I think the quoted post was referring to Alexandra. In that case if you compare Rika's record score 83.97 with a 3A compared to Alexandra's 74.74 then the difference indeed is around 9 points. But this is somehow misleading because we are comparing a junior to senior PCS.

If you compare Alina and Rika, then 3A makes around 2 points difference.

On an average I would say 3A adds around 6 points more.

This is fair. I think a clean 3A, especially if performed by Rika, can get +2 GOE and be worth around 10 total. I just couldn't understand how that's compared to zero for others.

We have to wait for senior PCS.