Senior Ladies Need To Up The Age Requirement

[Arbitrary]

I don’t care what skaters or coaches think, I care what medical professionals think. :

They usually think what Pharmacy Corps had them to think.

Also it differs from country to country, from regime to regime, and you may find any needed opinion quite quickly.
I doubt the US medical celebs would object 13 y.o. American girls doing quintuple jumps. If that brings some substantial proud turned money, especially.

 

[b-man]

I have no doubt that Sasha at 17 will still dominate [emoji1319]

Suggest you look at the careers of Lipnitskaya and Radionova. Their stars shined brightest ages 14-16. At age 17, their skills were declining, and they were out of skating soon thereafter.

 

[YuBluByMe]

Finally, 3) can we please stop factoring 'ladies' PCS at only 80% of the 'mens''? Both sexes skate for the same amount of time now, do the same number of elements, and frankly, they are the same elements, period!

But they’re not doing the same technical content, though. Although the ladies field is advancing technically, it’s still not on the level of the men. “Only” two senior ladies are landing quads internationally this season and “only” four ladies are landing 3As. And so far, no senior lady has landed both a quad and a 3A. Most men have at least one quad and nearly all of them have a 3A. That’s the reason for the 80% factor in PCS. Because otherwise every woman (save for the 6 landing either quads or 3As) will have PCS scores significantly higher than their TES.

For example, in Skate Canada Medvedeva’s PCS would have been 92.16, but her TES was 73.01. Mallet’s PCS would have been 66.28. Her TES was 44.87. You see? That doesn’t look good, now does it? It also gives the illusion/delusion that their skating skills and performance are especially noteworthy and significantly better than their technical prowess.

And judges already don’t know how to act when judging PCS. We certainly don’t need to give any more incentive to manipulate scores any more than they already do. Until quads and 3As are commonplace, the PCS factoring should remain the same.

 

[chuckm]

No, they don't and they won't as long as Alysa Liu is doing fine.

Alysa is 14 (13 in 'ISU years'). There's no more of a guarantee of her making it though puberty with quads and 3As intact than any of the Russian lady quadsters doing so.

 

[b-man]

.

If the only way to do a quad or triple Axel were to be tiny and extremely thin, men would be unable to do them.

Yuzuru is not tiny , but is very thin: 117 pounds! Nathan is listed at 135. Jason Brown at 145 pounds does not do quads, but he is not 117 pounds either.

 

[[email protected]]

Alysa is 14 (13 in 'ISU years'). There's no more of a guarantee of her making it though puberty with quads and 3As intact than any of the Russian lady quadsters doing so.

And if she does not make it in 3 years it will be too late to change anything. There will be a critical mass os skaters 17+ capable of doing quads and 3As. Like if ISU waited for just 2 years they would hardly introduce "Zagitova's rule". Backloading triples somewhat compensates doing quads in the first half. In fact, it would be a smart move to bring full backloading rule back. This might be the only chance for "pcs girls" Alina and Zhenya to be competitive with younger quadsters.

 

[b-man]

There was a time in gymnastics when it was mostly very young, very tiny ladies. Now you have Simone Biles, doing harder skills every year, rotating more times and vaulting higher and further than ever, at the age of 22.

The amazing Simone Biles is no longer young, but remains tiny at 4 ft 8 inches, 3 to 6 inches shorter than most competitors.

 

[Joekaz]

Who said figure skating is supposed to be artistic?

For me, it is supposed to be a sport, and ones who disagree can go watch shows.

I'm sure you think barrel jumpers are much better athletes than ballet dancers according to your logic. Lol

 

[Jaana]

I think that the ladies competing as senior should have reached the age of 18 before July 1st to be eligible for the coming season.

 

[kenboy123]

I think that the ladies competing as senior should have reached the age of 18 before July 1st to be eligible for the coming season.

OK...the reason I disagree with this is because you will good skaters never reach seniors competition or have very short careers...ladies are literally retiring at 20-22 in figure skating...LOL...i think they should be at least 16...

 

[el henry]

....

whole post

I appreciate that you took the time to reply. I tried to be fair and say that folks who don't agree with me can start their own drinking game

It's just that I will have the same answers to those points that I've had to other threads on the same subject. I guess I should have a cut and paste somewhere

The only new comment I will make is that I'm not responsible for what other posters or people on Twitter or whoever say. "Some people" or "people out there" I don't know, I can't account for, so I won't

I can only account for what I have said, and why I have argued for age limits. None of the counters presented here have changed my mind, but I understand that folks disagree, that's why we have a Board.

But I am still going to drink whenever I see, oh it's a sport, and oh they're jealous, and a laughing emoji. (to be fair, I guess I need a drink now, so here I go.....)

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Wow, that's pretty rude.

Skaters in all disciplines should have good edge quality but don't and that's sad.

How is that rude? They weren't saying that singles skaters shouldn't have edge quality, they were responding to a comment suggesting that all skaters do the same jump content so that skating quality will be more important. All they are saying is that they don't want skating quality to be the only factor, like the person they were replying to was suggesting. Because we have ice dance where that is true. In singles skating it is meant to be equal parts of both. So how is that rude.

So is not having good edge quality the new reason 15 year olds shouldn't be able to compete in senior?

It's rude because I'm sick and tired of all the jump fanatics saying, oh you can't jump just go do ice dance, like it's some lower discipline or something. Ice dance is a hell of a lot harder than singles and I know because I did both successfully, and with edge quality mind you.
Figure Skating is a sport and an art combined.

My point was that all disciplines should have good edge quality because that's what the PCS scores are supposed to be partially graded on. I said nothing about how old someone needs to be, all ages and all disciplines should have them, that's all that I said. So please stop trying to start an argument that never existed in my previous post.

 

[el henry]

It's rude because I'm sick and tired of all the jump fanatics saying, oh you can't jump just go do ice dance, like it's some lower discipline or something. Ice dance is a hell of a lot harder than singles and I know because I did both successfully, and with edge quality mind you.
Figure Skating is a sport AND an art combined.

My point was that all disciplines should have good edge quality because that's what the PCS scores are supposed to be partially graded on. I said nothing about who old someone needs to be, all ages and all disciplines should have them, that's all that I said. So please stop trying to start an argument that never existed in my previous post.

We can have, I hope, polite differences of opinion on the age differential.

To jump off (no pun intended ) from this post, when persons arguing against it tell me "Watch Ice Dance" or "Watch Exhibitions", maybe I'm wrong, but I feel defensive. I feel they are saying singles skating is only worthwhile if you value jumps above all else. Just plain wrong

As Jason told Meryl Davis in his IG Live interview, ice dancing looks easy because you (the ice dancers like Meryl) make it look easy. It's not.

And singles skating that values skills in addition to, and equally to jumps, is *not* ice dancing.

 

[moriel]

Suggest you look at the careers of Lipnitskaya and Radionova. Their stars shined brightest ages 14-16. At age 17, their skills were declining, and they were out of skating soon thereafter.

And all that because of quads.

 

[moriel]

I appreciate that you took the time to reply. I tried to be fair and say that folks who don't agree with me can start their own drinking game

It's just that I will have the same answers to those points that I've had to other threads on the same subject. I guess I should have a cut and paste somewhere

The only new comment I will make is that I'm not responsible for what other posters or people on Twitter or whoever say. "Some people" or "people out there" I don't know, I can't account for, so I won't

I can only account for what I have said, and why I have argued for age limits. None of the counters presented here have changed my mind, but I understand that folks disagree, that's why we have a Board.

But I am still going to drink whenever I see, oh it's a sport, and oh they're jealous, and a laughing emoji. (to be fair, I guess I need a drink now, so here I go.....)

Maybe you should copy and paste then, because there are many questions and no answers.
For example, the part about breaking rules is extremely puzzling, because noone here advocates that the girls would fake their birth certificates to compete in seniors and whatever like that.

 

[el henry]

Maybe you should copy and paste then, because there are many questions and no answers.
For example, the part about breaking rules is extremely puzzling, because noone here advocates that the girls would fake their birth certificates to compete in seniors and whatever like that.

I apologize, I did not mean to be obscure.

For ease of answering, I also am going to do that which I dislike, which is paraphrase and not quote. So if I am wrong in my paraphrasing, please correct or disregard.

My understanding of one argument against age limitations for seniors is that it will not promote health. It will not promote health because if the purpose is to limit practicing certain skills, the skaters will practice them anyway. That is the shorthand I meant by "breaking rules", the "skaters will practice these moves anyway, so what's the point", not anything like faking birth certificates, that was never on my mind

I disagree with that argument for the reasons I stated.

 

[Mishaminion]

So, you think someone should be rewarded for trying to do something and failing vs someone else who does a slightly less "hard" thing, but still hard and but does it perfectly...

i don't agree with that...

Artistry is supposed to be 50% with technique being the other half...so, the amount of points someone is able to score with both should be equal or as equal as possible...right now, it's nowhere near close enough...

Higher risks mean higher rewards, makes sense to me. If the reward was reduced, hardly anyone would bother to take the risk.

Please show me in the rules where it says the division between tech and artistry should be exactly 50%?

 

[Mishaminion]

It's rude because I'm sick and tired of all the jump fanatics saying, oh you can't jump just go do ice dance, like it's some lower discipline or something. Ice dance is a hell of a lot harder than singles and I know because I did both successfully, and with edge quality mind you.
Figure Skating is a sport and an art combined.

My point was that all disciplines should have good edge quality because that's what the PCS scores are supposed to be partially graded on. I said nothing about how old someone needs to be, all ages and all disciplines should have them, that's all that I said. So please stop trying to start an argument that never existed in my previous post.

Jumps have always been a part of singles skating and willalways be.
The top women were doing 7/8 triple programs by the 90s, 3As and even quad attempts then and early 2000s.

I think the topic was viewers not into jumps can watch ice dance not go compete in it?

If you don't like jumps and call others ",jump fanatics" for doing so, then what is rude about suggesting just watching ice dance and shows?

You get to see skating without jumps or without many. What's the problem?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Jumps have always been a part of singles skating and willalways be.
The top women were doing 7/8 triple programs by the 90s, 3As and even quad attempts then and early 2000s.

I think the topic was viewers not into jumps can watch ice dance not go compete in it?

If you don't like jumps and call others ",jump fanatics" for doing so, then what is rude about suggesting just watching ice dance and shows?

You get to see skating without jumps or without many. What's the problem?

And the winner for officially missing my points in two posts is.....


I JUMPED AND DANCED. This is not hard to see that I am not criticizing jumps, but it's also not going to hurt anyone to develop real skating skills along with them.

Thanks for the history lesson of my sport that I was a part of LOL!

 

[Nightcrawler]

I really don't see the point of this kind of threads. There is no system that would prevent outstanding jumping content from making medal podiums/winning. We go back to the holy trinity of IJS skaters (Kim Yuna, Mao Asada, Carolina Kostner) and while we want to convince ourselves that they were so dominant because of their artistry (which is undeniable), we have to remember that Kim had a textbook lutz and very consistent triple-triple combinations, Mao had a triple axel and triple flip-triple loop combinations and Carolina had enormous jumps, high speed and beautiful triple-triples as well. Trusova would win under any system, be it 6.0 or IJS.

The code is what it is and skater will always find ways to gain more points in a way that better suits their style of skating. If anything, Trusova chose the hard way by doing 4 quads. Jason Brown, who is nowhere near a whole-rounded skater to me, has found a way to build up scores without a single quad jump and very lacklustre triple axels while Satoko Miyahara is doing just fine with her amazing spins, beautiful posture and tiny jumps. So, in a way, a system that rewards skating skills and artistry is already working (didn't Patrick Chan win 3 wolrd titles with multiple falls?). Sure, it can't always work to accommodate OUR favourite skater or whom we perceive as the best, but it's more or less consistent. I suspect Trusova's performance will lead to a rule change just like the Zagitova rule (guess what, it didn't hinter Zagitova at all) but no amound of age restriction will allow lesser technical content to win big medals. Raising the age limit in gymnastics and an open-ended code of points has resulted in more difficulty than ever before by 20+ year-olds. I have no reason to believe raising it in figure skating at 18 will prevent skaters from attempting quads.