- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
Back up your statements with facts. Which competitions and medals were affected for example?
Like who was even good enough to beat them/should have outscored them?
Senior Ladies Need To Up The Age Requirement
- Thread starter Parksideprince
- Start date
Back up your statements with facts. Which competitions and medals were affected for example?
Like who was even good enough to beat them/should have outscored them?
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
Yep, Russian bonus is definitely exists for some skaters. The most prominent example is Medvedeva and constant manyyears ignoring of her flutz by every international panel before - and her constant PCS/GOE inflation now - even when she didn't win any titles two seasons already (compare this treatment with Tuktamysheva's, for example). However, it doesn't make other very strong Russian skaters undeserving their victories. On the contrary, one (who have enough figure skating experience to recognize true level of skill) can easily see typical judging trend nowadays - constant judges attempts to "level playing field" by downplaying Russian ladies abilities and pushing weaker skaters to the same level - applying different standarts of strictness. The most prominent example would be Shcherbakova's 5 lutz calls and dubios UR calls while ignoring multiple edge and UR mistakes of her more weaker rivals - in the same competition. The same can be said about Zagitova's judges treatment. It's anything but "Russian bonus".If you don't see the "skating while Russian bonus", blatantly present in many competitions, I'm not going to engage in the endless game of "what's your proof"/"какие ваши доказательства", right?/, because no proof is ever enough anyway, (even if I wanted to engage in this pointless game, which I don't).
Nevertheless, whether you have a point or not - this season we have situation that Russian ladies superiority is obvious even without scores inflation. Just because they can jump quads and consistent 3As. And others - can't. Yep, it's that simple.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2017
Samohin isn't Russian, though.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
I assumed they mean Alexander Samarin
I feel like skaters and audience would benefit a lot from another age category just for the ladies, 15-18 years old and then the senior skaters. It doesn't have to be on the Grand Prix series, because I think this would too much and also it would be interesting to have all the ladies compete together at one kind of tournament. But maybe at Euros, 4CC and Worlds. Seeing Trusova and Shcherbakova, I think it's not fair to let them compete against full-grown skaters, but then it also would be boring for them to compete all the time in Juniors until they're 17 oder 18. This way they could compete for a title with a bigger audience and yet it would keep the motivation for older skaters like Radionova, Pogorilaya who already have retired, or Tutakymsheva, Medvedeva, Sakamoto etc. to keep going. Also for skaters like Zagitova, because she wouldn't have won it all at this point.
And the audience would benefit, because there's even more skating to watch
and to have skaters with more longevity.
And the audience would benefit, because there's even more skating to watch
and to have skaters with more longevity.- Joined
- Feb 12, 2014
I feel like skaters and audience would benefit a lot from another age category just for the ladies, 15-18 years old and then the senior skaters. It doesn't have to be on the Grand Prix series, because I think this would too much and also it would be interesting to have all the ladies compete together at one kind of tournament. But maybe at Euros, 4CC and Worlds. Seeing Trusova and Shcherbakova, I think it's not fair to let them compete against full-grown skaters, but then it also would be boring for them to compete all the time in Juniors until they're 17 oder 18. This way they could compete for a title with a bigger audience and yet it would keep the motivation for older skaters like Radionova, Pogorilaya who already have retired, or Tutakymsheva, Medvedeva, Sakamoto etc. to keep going. Also for skaters like Zagitova, because she wouldn't have won it all at this point.
And the audience would benefit, because there's even more skating to watch
It's not fair? Since when?
Was it also not fair when 15 year old Michelle Kwan won her first World Title in 1995? Or Sonja Henie winning Worlds in 1927 aged 14?
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2017
It wouldn't. Any further splitting up of existing disciplines and fan bases is going to damage fs popularity instead fo helping it. Even now dividing fs into 4 disciplines and multiple age categories brings harm to popularity since most people are ready to dedicate only so much of their time to watch fs - and they prefer to choose only what is most interesting to them. As a result we have almost completely empty tribunes in junior disciplines/ice dance/pairs. Further fragmentation of pretty small and niche fan base to begin with is not going to fix this situation - to put it mildly.
What IS going to bring popularity to the sport - is abolishing national quotas system and introducing all stars major competitions based on rating and skills of participants as a standart. GPF is one of the most popular competition in the world for a reason.
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2019
This is my first time posting on this thread and the first time I've even noticed it really. I have mixed views on this topic bc I used to think of the senior ladies as being like adults really but now there seems to be kids competing with them which just seems strange for me in a way.
On the other hand, the teens that have come up into seniors seem to beat the older ones so it is better competition for them rather than competing with the juniors.
A girl I skate with is 21 and obviously competes in seniors. She believes that some of the girls are too young to be competing in seniors and isn't really a great fan of their skating because of their age and somewhat immaturity with their skills and technique. I sort of agree with her. Also she has competed against Trusova (in the senior competition) and said that it felt strange to have someone much younger competing against her.
So by the end of this post, I still haven't gotten anywhere [emoji23]
I just have mixed views on it and don't really know what I think anymore hahah
On the other hand, the teens that have come up into seniors seem to beat the older ones so it is better competition for them rather than competing with the juniors.
A girl I skate with is 21 and obviously competes in seniors. She believes that some of the girls are too young to be competing in seniors and isn't really a great fan of their skating because of their age and somewhat immaturity with their skills and technique. I sort of agree with her. Also she has competed against Trusova (in the senior competition) and said that it felt strange to have someone much younger competing against her.
So by the end of this post, I still haven't gotten anywhere [emoji23]
I just have mixed views on it and don't really know what I think anymore hahah
Why exactly? Their height and weight is more than Miyahara or Tursynbaeva height and weight.
- Joined
- Jan 5, 2019
Does your friend (or in general any other senior skater) think that removing the young Russians (assuming they are most concerned over these) from the competition will level the playing field?
Russia's state sponsored sports school system will just adapt, and instead of middle school <16 years have upper classmen >17-18 from their high schools competing and given their even longer training phase, they will still be overclassing the others by a considerable margin.
Change in age requirements is talk of those who don't have successful young skaters. As Alysa is up and coming, the US will probably not vote for something like that. Canada might do it, although with there current skaters one could take the age limit to 40 and it wouldn't help. The 3A are quite unique at the moment, the following juniors aren't as capable, so even Team Tutberidze has limits. As Vaganova director Tziskaridze put it - everything is related to the "material" you get. China doesn't have one single lady of that calibre. And a limit of let's say 18 won't prevent skaters like Rika or Lilbet from having an advantage when it comes to ultra-C-elements because of being "petite". Liza had technical success quite late - but she has, next to secure technique, an ideal body for that.
Moreover, this talk of necessary change regarding age limit took up speed the very moment the 3A appeared. Same thing when Alina jumped everything in the second half - suddenly a rule change was necessary, although the concentration of jumps went with the climax of the second half of the DQ program and this concept was unique here, even Evgenia wasn't capable of delivering it. Ironically those who voted for this change didn't reach anything as this concept was over the next season - Alina could not longer do it and the 3A have other things to rack up points.
Besides, having only a few seasons before retiring is not only a Russian thing - it happened quite often with US gymnasts for example, especially 1996 and 2000; or look at this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Patterson; 23:54 29.12.2019. Two seasons - bye.
On the other hand, Russian gymnasts like Produnova, Kochetkova, Chorkina had long(er) careers.
So I would recommend to simply enjoy the 3A as long as they last - they are spectacular in what they are doing, whereas skaters with protocols like 2Lze - 3F<< - 3T1T - 2A - 3S (-5) - 3T - 2A might be musical and mature, but certainly not enjoyable at all - during a live performance in the arena one suffers with them and is happy for everything that works out, including pirouettes.
Moreover, this talk of necessary change regarding age limit took up speed the very moment the 3A appeared. Same thing when Alina jumped everything in the second half - suddenly a rule change was necessary, although the concentration of jumps went with the climax of the second half of the DQ program and this concept was unique here, even Evgenia wasn't capable of delivering it. Ironically those who voted for this change didn't reach anything as this concept was over the next season - Alina could not longer do it and the 3A have other things to rack up points.
Besides, having only a few seasons before retiring is not only a Russian thing - it happened quite often with US gymnasts for example, especially 1996 and 2000; or look at this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carly_Patterson; 23:54 29.12.2019. Two seasons - bye.
On the other hand, Russian gymnasts like Produnova, Kochetkova, Chorkina had long(er) careers.
So I would recommend to simply enjoy the 3A as long as they last - they are spectacular in what they are doing, whereas skaters with protocols like 2Lze - 3F<< - 3T1T - 2A - 3S (-5) - 3T - 2A might be musical and mature, but certainly not enjoyable at all - during a live performance in the arena one suffers with them and is happy for everything that works out, including pirouettes.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2019
I didn't mention neither Scherbakova nor Starr Andrews, and do not think that Andrews could be an example because, but this is only my personal opinion, she's not a top skater.
Generally speaking, this is what I think:
figure skating consists of heterogeneous elements that must be combined in the most harmonious way possible; give this premise I believe that the best athletes are the ones that do not have particular flaws in any of these elements and not those who excel in a single element. It is clear to everyone that the younger and fresher you are the easier it is to jump; on the other hand artistry requires time.
My question is: are these new jumpers complete skaters? For me they're not; sure they can jump but most of them are now lacking in skating skills that require time and work.
The problem is that they will never have the possibility to work on them, develop and become beautiful mature skaters as they deserve because in a couple of years they will be replaced by others 15 years old that will jump higher and rotate faster than them, and we will never see long-lived, complete athletes and long-lasting rivalries like the one between Mao and Yuna for example.
Raising the age limit to 17 (so not a lot) will allow them to survive after puberty, to work on quads without rushing and to get to compete among senior with multiple abilities they have not mastered yet.
Yes, why not? But I think better examples are Sarah Hughes or Kimmie Meissner. Olympic and World champion at 16, already struggling a year later and then disappearing.
Then that's just the way nature works for them. But there are enough skaters who were successful with 15, 16 maybe even 17, and then they began to struggle, so clearly being not full-grown yet gave them an advantage. I guess we'll see, if in the future skaters will be chosen by their birth date, because if you're 19 by your first Olympics, it could already be too late.
What "new jumpers"? Kostornaia, who won GPF? Valieva who won JGPF without a single quad ar 3A? They both are much more beautiful than any 20 y.o. Do you really follow ladies figure skating lately? What are you talking about??
You want "long lasting rivalries"? You mean you don't want new stronger skaters to emerge? Nice!
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