Bonaly is definitely better than MK. She's the no.1 victim of the political favoritism.
Mirai stunned Japanese fans -> Do you like Michelle Kwan?
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Bonaly is definitely better than MK. She's the no.1 victim of the political favoritism.
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- Jun 21, 2003
!!!!! Would a single Axel / triple something count as fulfilling the requirement of "an Axel jump?"
If so, it seems like this would be the perfect risk-free way to get in 7 triples. Do a single Axel / some kind of step/ triple something sequence. In other words, just use the Axel as an unusual embellishment for the entry to the triple. What would the judges think of this?
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- Feb 5, 2004
You've just nuked your argument clear out of the stratosphere with a comment like that....hands up anyone who thinks Bonaly was a better skater than Kwan.....
Ant
Also Bonlay has 5 European titles....which worlds do you really think she deserved to win? Personally i can't think of any. It just seems that you really only care about landing jumps not quality of skating...that being the case then do you concede that Michelle clearly won in 1996 landing one more triple jump that Lulu and that she should also have won in 1995 being the only lady to land 7 triples there too?
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- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
!!!!! Would a single Axel / triple something count as fulfilling the requirement of "an Axel jump?"
If so, it seems like this would be the perfect risk-free way to get in 7 triples. Do a single Axel / some kind of step/ triple something sequence. In other words, just use the Axel as an unusual embellishment for the entry to the triple. What would the judges think of this?
How about Robin Cousins style huge delay on an open Axel straight into a combo with a triple toe. Good clean run out and flow on the axel and the toe loop and just looking at the height on Robin's open axel you could get +2s and +3s for a superior jump combo in all phases....only problem would be the base mark of a single axel which is what 0.8?
Ant
Here's my theory...you're just upset that Mao never had the chance to skate against Michelle and beat her that way you could live the rest of your life safe in the knowledge that your favourite is better than the legendarymichelle kwan
Let it go - Mao will do well i'm sure and enjoy her skating as you clearly do. You don't need to knock a legend to try to emphasise how good mao is.
Ant
I think Rutinia has no sense of history of sports. The nature of sports is that every generation push the envelop and advance the sports. Kwan advanced her sports in her generation, and so is Mao currently. Mark Spitz olympic winning time is lagging behind an US jr swimmer. So according to Rutinia's theory, the US junior swimmer is pushing ths sport, and Mark Spitz was not.
IF it is fair game to compare Mao's jump content vs Kwan's, then it is just as fair to compare Kwan's jump content to e.g. Peggy Flemmings. If Rutinia's rant against Kwan holds water, then we can likelwise say Kwan was the one who out jump Peggy Flemming in a competition.
Obviously MK might have spat in Rutinia's breakfast cereal.
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Surya would have bombed under CoP because her spins and footwork would have been very low level due to her lack of edging. Surya skated on the flat of her blade nearly all the time. To say she was one of the greatest skaters of all time and her medalless worlds were due to bias is just indefensible.
I think the most extreme bias is on the part of the poster who denigrates Michelle Kwan's achievements.
I think the most extreme bias is on the part of the poster who denigrates Michelle Kwan's achievements.
True, but the base mark for a double toe after a jump isn't much more, so if doing a single axel allows you to do one triple in each of your allowed seven jumping passes without "wasting" a pass on a double axel, and if you can also get higher GOE that way than you would on a solo double axel or on the triple by itself or with a double toe afterward, then it's worth doing.
The best options would be 1axel-3toe, 1axel-3loop, or one-foot 1axel-3salchow, because then you would get full value for the axel (not much) and also for the triple. If you did a sequence, e.g., 1axel-half loop-3salchow, the value for the whole thing would be multiplied by 0.8 and it would end up being worth less in base value than the 3sal by itself.
Actually she had some difficult spins and could easily have achieved some higher levels, but the GOEs would often have been negative.
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- Dec 16, 2006
I miss that combo! Jill Trenary used it in every program...even up until 1998 when she had long turned pro!
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- Jun 21, 2003
But still a teeny bit higher than a double Axel by itself, which you would have to do to fulfill the Axel requirement.
I am starting to see why the 2A+3T combo is suddenly becoming so popular.
The only thing I am worried about is that coaches are putting together programs on the basis of which combination of jumps gets an extra tenth of a point, at the expense of the integrity of the program as a whole.
Or is that wrong? Is there any artistic reason why a Salchow might be the right jump at a particular point in the music, rather than a flip?
I am thinking, for instance, of Michelle's falling leaf into an inside-outside spread eagle in her East of Eden exhibition as performed at the 1998 World Pro. It came right at that split second of dead silence just after the crescendo of the bridge into the final sweeping chorus. Anything else there would have been a crime.
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- Joined
- Dec 16, 2006
But still a teeny bit higher than a double Axel by itself, which you would have to do to fulfill the Axel requirement.
I am starting to see why the 2A+3T combo is suddenly becoming so popular.
The only thing I am worried about is that coaches are putting together programs on the basis of which combination of jumps gets an extra tenth of a point, at the expense of the integrity of the program as a whole.
Or is that wrong? Is there any artistic reason why a Salchow might be the right jump at a particular point in the music, rather than a flip?
I am thinking, for instance, of Michelle's falling leaf into an inside-outside spread eagle in her East of Eden exhibition as performed at the 1998 World Pro. It came right at that split second of dead silence just after the crescendo of the bridge into the final sweeping chorus. Anything else there would have been a crime.
Well now, Mathman, for years people would put the edge jumps in the softer part of the music (the loop is a beautiful accent during that part!), but skaters have a program layout that they are used to skating--one that they just play music in the background to.
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- Dec 16, 2006
My math is so bad lol (and I work in accounting--go figure!).
The sad thing about "the poster" aka satorare aka rutinia is that he/she is not crediting Mao for her ARTISTIC abilities. I have a feeling that one day, when another jumping bean comes along, Mao will be known and remembered more for her artistry, than the triple axel.
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- Jan 24, 2004
There's more to technical achievement than just jumps. Otherwise Mao and the new generation might has well stop practicing their basic skating, footwork, spins, and spirals.bekalc said:
I realize that Michelle had great basic skating, foot work and spirals.. She was wonderful. But I never thought she had the most exciting spins, and she did play it safe. Towards the end of her career her programs because crossover jump crossover jump.
Frankly that's OK to me. But Mao seems very ambitious. She aims to conquer the summit of every technical mountain. Jumps better than Ito, spins better than Ruh, sipirals better than SC, footwork...she's already the best.
IMO, when it comes to artistry, Yu-Na Kim has it all over Mao Asada. To my eyes, Mao looks like the quintessential jumping bean. I didn't see any great artistry in "Czardas"---she just looked as if she was struggling to keep up with the music. I am afraid the same thing will happen with the Chopin FS this season; that's another piece of music that is just too fast for any skater, Mao included.
Of course, Mao is not interested in the MK's "artist" style. She once said "I wanna be like Michelle Kwan", following "to win five world titles". I think she will achieve that goal. The coming seven years of ladies field are not comparable to the MK dark ages. The definition of "artistry" will surely change. At least, Yuna Kim is not the one to set the standard.
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- Jan 23, 2004
The last few years of Michelle's career we now know that she was
battling a hip injury, hence the crossover jump crossover jump era. As far as playing it safe,sorry no offense but I don't buy it. Why was it up to Michelle to push the technical level. There were plenty other skaters competing with her and against her who could have upped the technical level at that time. Why is it I don't hear about them playing it safe. For me "safe" does not belong in Michelle's resume. JMO
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
To me, the trouble with relegating "artistry" to the back burner is -- why have figure skating at all? If you want to see someone jump high, there is already a sport like that -- high jumping. Why put on skates?
We already have plenty of sports. You can take up soccer, kayaking, or Grecco-Roman wrestling.
And yet, we are drawn to skating. Evidently figure skating has something that is missing from other sports.
We already have plenty of sports. You can take up soccer, kayaking, or Grecco-Roman wrestling.
And yet, we are drawn to skating. Evidently figure skating has something that is missing from other sports.
