Date of 4CC - Timing OK for N.Americans?

[gkelly]

I never got why former soviet republics like Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, and Georgia sent skaters to Euros--perhaps it's a holdover from the soviet days.

The Caucasian republics -- Armenia, Azerbaijan, and Georgia -- send skaters to Europeans because they can be considered part of Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus

The Caucasus Mountains are commonly reckoned as a dividing line between Asia and Europe, and territories in Caucasia are variably considered to be in one or both continents.

Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan are definitely considered Asian and have never sent skaters to Europeans -- they have consistently gone to Four Continents once it existed, whenever there were skaters at a level to compete there.

If you will remember, the ladies' competition at the very first Four Continents was won by skater representing Uzbekistan.

 

[PolymerBob]

Unfortunately, since it only began in '99, it never developed any prestige -- and since few federations use it as part of selecting the World team, there is no incentive for the top skaters to go to it (the only reason why the top US ladies went last year is that it was a requirement to get USFS approval to do SOI stops)

There are actually 30,000 reasons why a skater would want to attend. First, the prize money for an individual skater who wins is $15,000. Second, winning guarantees an American skater a spot on the "A" envelope, which means $15,000 worth of training support. That's why Katy was in the "A" envelope last year.

 

[Tonichelle]

And therein lies the problem with the 4CC's. You don't see the Europeans writing off the Euros to prepare for Worlds :scratch:

well aren't most European skaters' nationals considered teh smaller event for one, and aren't they normally in December? they have a bit of a break in between Euros and Worlds.

 

[BelleFilleYuna]

Two MA didn't "decline". The JSF has decided not to send them.

Kim was complaining "waist pains". She didn't even participate Asian winter games. For the Koreans, this event is 100 times more important than 4CC , because winning a gold medal assures a lifetime pension.

Well, Asian games itself doesn't guarantee anything, even one gets a gold medal.
I won't give the low-down of Korean pension system, really it's nobody's interests here, but Yuna couldn't get any money out of Asian winter games medal. And hardly is thepension money an incentive to sports players in Korea since the amount is very small (except for the Olympics), especially for figure skating skaters, I guess.

I'm sure that you didn't mean to fabricate anything, but plz, write it when you have a complete knowledge about it.

 

[Tinymavy15]

None of the ladies' world podium -- Ando, Asada or Kim -- skated in Four Continents last year. I am pretty sure they had their own reasons for declining,

Maybe becasue all of them skated at the GPF, so they all made the final group at worlds SP....

 

[pista04]

Ando and Asada had no chance to go at all: JSF opted to send 4th to 6th place.

 

[Mathman]

Moderator post. I am going to transfer all the anti-Kwan posts on this thread to the anti-Kwan thread, just to keep the topics straight. Please post all "I hate Kwan" thoughts on the Mirai Nagasu thread (poor thing -- how did Mirai get caught in the middle? )

This forum is for the enjoyment of everyone. One hijacked thread on this topic is enough.

 

[SeaniBu]

\Same with Asia. Are there enough countries to make a serious competition out of it, or would it just be a Chinese pairs exhibition with a Japan versus
Yu-na sideshow?

That seems to ALMOST some up the whole season

btw... nice "foot down" MM

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

She's got to learn to write like Red Dog who knew how to slice MK in half.

 

[Mathman]

^ Is this post related to Four Continents?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

^ Is this post related to Four Continents?

Put it with your comments about the switch.

 

[blue dog]

^ Is this post related to Four Continents?

No LOL.

I remember being 16, watching Europeans, and then thinking that it would be cool if there was another continental championship. I was really optimistic when 4CC's came around. I was hoping that MK and those people would go, but I wasn't too bothered when they didn't--it was nice to see people like Angela Nikodinov winning in 1999, or Tania Malinina winning one. Of course, competition like the pairs and dance wasn't too shabby because we always had the Chinese and Canadians in pairs, and the Canadians and Americans in dance. While it seemed more like a homecoming game than a tournament, it isn't like a B event (Karl Schaefer). Goodness, let's not take away someone's win by discrediting the 4CC's. Just because Sasha didn't compete in 2006 doesn't devalue Kathy Taylor's great winning FS.

Then there's also the issue of it being a "worlds" for skaters who don't make it to worlds. Two years ago, there was a men's skater from South Africa, the Philippines, and some skaters from India--these skaters didn't qualify to worlds, why take 4CC away from them?

It's like the Golden Globes. Let's keep it!

 

[billyelliot1971]

Excuse me but in Europe there is the European Championships and it is right that also american champions must take part in FC! The American Champions before worlds take part in the Nationals only, but in Europe the Russian champions take part in the Nationals and in the European Championships! The American and Canadian Champions ( gold and silver ) are privileged because don't take part in FC, therefore the Canada and USA federations are astute! If they want more time to practice they can't participate to COI or SOI, but they are interested to business only and not to sports comparison!

 

[blue dog]

Excuse me but in Europe there is the European Championships and it is right that also american champions must take part in FC! The American Champions before worlds take part in the Nationals only, but in Europe the Russian champions take part in the Nationals and in the European Championships! The American and Canadian Champions ( gold and silver ) are privileged because don't take part in FC, therefore the Canada and USA federations are astute! If they want more time to practice they can't participate to COI or SOI, but they are interested to business only and not to sports comparison!

I'm with you on this one--what happened to practicing in the summer?!

 

[Tonichelle]

again - Euros doesn't take place in the same time frame 4CCs does. N. American skaters would be going from nationals in one location to 4CCs in another straight to worlds... not only does that disrupt normal training, but I can't imagine the jet lag and added stress...

Europeans have a bit of down time between Euros and Worlds... it only makes sense that the big names take that same time to prepare.

 

[chuckm]

European skaters don't have far to travel to participate in Euros. I'd like to see how many top European skaters would participate if they had to travel to Vancouver, Canada, and if Euros was within 30 days of Worlds.

A one-week event on the other side of the world turns into 10-12 days away from normal practice routines due to long airplane flights and resultant jet lag on both ends of the trip. At the venue, skaters usually get in only an hour or two of practice each day, compared with the 4 hours they usually put in at home.

Maybe that is the solution: have Europeans alternate locations across the world, and 4CC as well. If 4CC were held in Europe, I think many more US top skaters would be willing to go.

 

[blue dog]

European skaters don't have far to travel to participate in Euros. I'd like to see how many top European skaters would participate if they had to travel to Vancouver, Canada, and if Euros was within 30 days of Worlds.

A one-week event on the other side of the world turns into 10-12 days away from normal practice routines due to long airplane flights and resultant jet lag on both ends of the trip. At the venue, skaters usually get in only an hour or two of practice each day, compared with the 4 hours they usually put in at home.

Maybe that is the solution: have Europeans alternate locations across the world, and 4CC as well. If 4CC were held in Europe, I think many more US top skaters would be willing to go.

It's not just the top skaters from the US that are affected by having 4CC held in alternate parts of the world, but now, as we can see, top skaters from Japan, Korea, Canada, Uzbekistan, and Australia, as well. Many of these skaters, like Mao, Yeon-Ah, Tania Malinina (when she skated) and some others train in North America--they too skip 4CC's because of the loss of practice time, and how close it is to worlds.

My suggestion, now that I have thought about it, instead of moving the national championships to December, like the rest of the world does, is to move 4CC's to either late December or early January.

Or, another alternative would be to hold this championship AFTER worlds. I know people at that time are in either summer or tour mode, but it would be cool to see everyone's programs one last time. The 4CC federations aren't even using 4CC's as a deciding factor in who to send to worlds or Olympics, so why have them so early?

 

[chuckm]

Japanese Championships are in very late December (usually right around Christmas), Russian Championships are in early January, and Canadian and US Championships are in January. Since these are four of the top skating federations, I have to object to "the rest of the world" having their Nationals in December.

When you consider the size of the US and the number of skaters that compete, I don't see how the championships could be moved to December. Regionals are in mid-October, and Sectionals are in mid-November. Meanwhile, the GP events end up in early December and the GPF is in mid-December.

It does not seem reasonable to hold US Nationals anywhere near the GPF, since that would be a severe hardship for any US skaters who compete in the Final. And in the US, forget about holding Nationals during Christmas week.

It just is not feasible for the US to move its championships to December.

 

[enlight78]

I think that 4CC should be at about the same time as the Grand Prix Final. Skaters that didn't qualify for the grand prix final can enter 4CC. Most of the time it ends up like that anyway. This way we have a international half way marker not for just the top skaters but everybody else also.

 

[gkelly]

I think that 4CC should be at about the same time as the Grand Prix Final. Skaters that didn't qualify for the grand prix final can enter 4CC.

For countries that hold their nationals in late December or January, how will they choose who to send to 4Cs it it's held before or during their nationals?

Aside from the travel and historical prestige issues, would it seem fair if 4Cs is held the same week as Euros? That has been the case at least once or twice.