2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[eterislouisvuitton]

"circus girl" Yes she might have some lack of focus towards aspects of skating but a circus girl who has no idea of what she needs to work on and no awareness of her and her standing among her competition became a two time junior world champion and several time world record holder all by the age of 15

As for Eteri, no Eteri won't take her back. That is a done deal. I think Davydov might've been a better option for Sasha though. I was disappointed that due to age restrictions Mishin wasn't able to go to Kislovodsk and share his wisdom with her. I hope her jump technique doesn't fail like some in the past - once her quads are gone she is gone.

 

[Fried]

It is remarkable. As long as someone, whose program consists primarily of impressive jumps, is training under Eteri, he is the celebrated Russian Rocket. Under Plushenko, the same person with the same jumps mutates into the circus girl (mind you, in derogatory form).
If it weren't for crying, you could laugh about it.

 

[KOBOT37]

It is remarkable. As long as someone, whose program consists primarily of impressive jumps, is training under Eteri, he is the celebrated Russian Rocket. Under Plushenko, the same person with the same jumps mutates into the circus girl (mind you, in derogatory form).
If it weren't for crying, you could laugh about it.

It's not remarkable, it's just how it works.

She was a hero for TT fans and jumping robot for TT haters.

Now she is a jumping robot for TT fans and hero, Russian rocket, an unique athlete and etc for TT haters.

I don't get what are you asking people who are TT fans first and foremost, to keep supporting somebody who just jumped a ship to joing their favorite team's/coach's sworn enemy ? reaction from TT fans isn't any more incredible than reaction FC Barcelona fans had at Luis Figo joining Real Madrid

 

[plushyfan]

I was disappointed that due to age restrictions Mishin wasn't able to go to Kislovodsk and share his wisdom with her. I hope her jump technique doesn't fail like some in the past - once her quads are gone she is gone.

I don't think Mishin would do that. Why?Especial regularly. He has opponent skaters.

 

[Fried]

It's not remarkable, it's just how it works.

She was a hero for TT fans and jumping robot for TT haters.

Now she is a jumping robot for TT fans and hero, Russian rocket, an unique athlete and etc for TT haters.

I don't get what are you asking people who are TT fans first and foremost, to keep supporting somebody who just jumped a ship to joing their favorite team's/coach's sworn enemy ? reaction from TT fans isn't any more incredible than reaction FC Barcelona fans had at Luis Figo joining Real Madrid

I am glad that I was neither a TT fan nor a TT-hater (nor any more than a Plushenko-fan/hater). So I was a fan of the Supergirl and can remain so without any remorse.
No ifs and buts.

 

[Tolstoj]

That's all fine and dandy when they land the jumps, Trusova's problem thus far as a senior is that she's not able to land enough quads or triple axels to beat other skaters that are competing quads or triple axels and have higher PCS. Shcherbakova only does 3 quads (2 types) but they are the highest value quads; Kostornaia while she has no quad, she does the triple axel which allows her to build a lead in the SP, that has thus far been able to hold off Shcherbakova if she falters on a quad,

The funny thing is that if you actually check how many times even men land these quads, they fall too.

The difference is that components often save their marks even though falls clearly take away from the performance. At Worlds 2018 Shoma Uno fell 3 times in the free and still managed to finish second with 9s in components and a huge TES as well. So in the end Trusova might not even need to go clean always, she just needs more effective choreographies to sustain those big marks.

The other thing is that if judges start to actually read and use the new rules just approved, Shcherbakova is the one skater most affected by them as her quads are the most pre-rotated, sometimes under too, even more prerotated than most girls triples, plus the bad take off and the wrong edge on the lutz. So that is a whole bunch of deductions and negative GOE for each "quad" Anna attempts.

While Trusova's quads are the closest to "real" quads in ladies.

 

[starlight97]

The funny thing is that if you actually check how many times even men land these quads, they fall too.

The difference is that components often save their marks even though falls clearly take away from the performance. At Worlds 2018 Shoma Uno fell 3 times in the free and still managed to finish second with 9s in components and a huge TES as well. So in the end Trusova might not even need to go clean always, she just needs more effective choreographies to sustain those big marks.

The other thing is that if judges start to actually read and use the new rules just approved, Shcherbakova is the one skater most affected by them as her quads are the most pre-rotated, sometimes under too, even more prerotated than most girls triples, plus the bad take off and the wrong edge on the lutz. So that is a whole bunch of deductions and negative GOE for each "quad" Anna attempts.

While Trusova's quads are the closest to "real" quads in ladies.

And how would you feel about Trusova winning with 3 falls on 4 quads, over a clean Kostornaya?
I get that the sport works by points but that logic is just so disengaging even for skating fans, for an outside viewer I can't even imagine.
For me personally a jump you fall on should be virtually like a jump you didn't do

 

[Tolstoj]

And how would you feel about Trusova winning with 3 falls on 4 quads, over a clean Kostornaya?
I get that the sport works by points but that logic is just so disengaging even for skating fans, for an outside viewer I can't even imagine.
For me personally a jump you fall on should be virtually like a jump you didn't do

Over Shcherbakova yes, cause at the very least it's a better technique even with the falls, over a clean Kostornaya probably not and judges also proved this season they'd put the clean skate in first.

I'm not okay with components being that high in spite of falls, so for me i'd rather hope to see Trusova doing less quads but going for the clean skate, but it's just how it is currently so realistically her mindset of going for more quads than the rest isn't that wrong.

 

[Alex65]

And how would you feel about Trusova winning with 3 falls on 4 quads, over a clean Kostornaya?
I get that the sport works by points but that logic is just so disengaging even for skating fans, for an outside viewer I can't even imagine.
For me personally a jump you fall on should be virtually like a jump you didn't do

Of course, this is logical and makes sense. But on the other hand, this will lead athletes to dubious tricks in technology with the sole purpose of "not to fall." Also, attempts to save all jumps will increase the risk of injuries, IMO.

 

[KOBOT37]

Over Shcherbakova yes, cause at the very least it's a better technique even with the falls

:luv17:

aaaand just like that, "prerotation" on her jumps disappeared the second she left TT. :luv17:

But I am calling it, this is just starting, in the middle of the season we will have people claiming Trusova to be PCS queen.

over a clean Kostornaya probably not

also, judging that she hasn't even skated yet and people are already putting her with 3 falls on 4 quads only slightly behind clean Alena, we have huge room for progress here too. Soon Probably not is going to turn into probably yes and then sky is the limit.

P.S there are no post hating Eteri here, I have no clue where some people are seeing it

 

[Tolstoj]

:luv17:

aaaand just like that, "prerotation" on her jumps disappeared the second she left TT. :luv17:

But I am calling it, this is just starting, in the middle of the season we will have people claiming Trusova to be PCS queen.



also, judging that she hasn't even skated yet and people are already putting her with 3 falls on 4 quads only slightly behind clean Alena, we have huge room for progress here too. Soon Probably not is going to turn into probably yes and then sky is the limit.

P.S there are no post hating Eteri here, I have no clue where some people are seeing it

It's not an ideal technique but it is the best we have in senior ladies for quads right now, that is a fact.

Shcherbakova's quads have always been extremely cheated, i mean when a jump is even less than 3.5 revolutions how can you not see it, it worked for her cause quad in ladies is a novelty and as soon as judges started to actually check the rotations and edges, RusFed immediately showed up very aggressive sending formal complaints (Cup of China).

From now on there are rules in place against pre-rotation and cheated take off.

On Trusova i don't think i'll ever call her PCS Queen but if you go back in my messages, i've always said since Test Skates and even the seasons before, that a lot of her artistic deficiency also comes from the programs, particularly the free programs.

All her free programs she has had so far were basically designed to be as less intrusive as possible with her quads, a showcase of her jumping skills and flexibility in the choreo sequence but not much else. At no point in her GoT free skate you actually see her willing to sell the routine, emotionally invested in the performance. While the Peer Gynt short in comparison was a much better veichle for her.

In general i do think that really good choreographies can make even non-artistic skater look nice, take Bradie Tennell's SP this season for instance. She's the same girl who was skating to Cinderella just 2 years ago.

Considering the type of programs we've seen from Angels of Plushenko and the types of programs Plushenko also used to skate, it's possible we'll see another GoT type of program this season from her. I'm not so confident she'll start to work on skating skills but one man can hope.

 

[KOBOT37]

I must admit I was surprised here, I thought reply would be something like "I didn't mean that".

But alas, we already have people who are putting Trusova with 3 falls on 4 quads ahead of Clean Anaa and "probably not" ahead of clean Alena.

lovely :luv17:

But I guess it's the way it should be, when you win as much as Eteri does, you gain tons of haters.

 

[Fluture]

But I guess it's the way it should be, when you win as much as Eteri does, you gain tons of haters.

And just as many ardent fans who believe every normal discussion is a badly disguised attempt at hate against their idol. Just saying. It goes both ways.

It's not remarkable, it's just how it works.

She was a hero for TT fans and jumping robot for TT haters.

Now she is a jumping robot for TT fans and hero, Russian rocket, an unique athlete and etc for TT haters.

And maybe for some she always was a unique athlete, non withstanding who her coach is? Because this is actually something that comes from HER as a person and a human being and has nothing to do with who gives her the skate guards when she comes off the ice?

I realize coaches are important, they do remarkable work. But in the end, Sasha is (or she should be) beloved because she is Sasha, not “TeamTutberidze‘s“. I think this is what she wanted too and no matter how successful her move will be, at least she now knows who truly supports HER and not just the name of her club or coach.

I don't get what are you asking people who are TT fans first and foremost, to keep supporting somebody who just jumped a ship to joing their favorite team's/coach's sworn enemy ?

Personally, yes, that‘s what I would expect. Sasha is someone you were proud of, you held up as an example. You spoke of her brave character, the quad queen, yes, the Russian rocket. Was this really all just because of her coach? And then, spinning this further, does her identity even matter? Do Anna‘s and Aliona‘s and Alina‘s? Or only as long as they‘re being coached by Tutberidze? And as soon as they leave, they become just like Sasha, not worthy of support?

So far, I have not seen anybody who went from “Sasha hater“ to calling her the queen. I‘m sure there are people out there but in my book, they’re not worth discussing. But in here? Didn‘t see anyone. Whereas I did see someone who went from basically praising Sasha to high heavens just a few months ago to now saying “why exactly should I still support her“?

We‘ve had the discussion about Anna‘s and Sasha‘s quads way before anyone even considered Sasha leaving a possibility. And back then, many already thought Sasha‘s quads were better. What about this is hate towards TeamTutberidze?


I don‘t agree that - based on the kind of skating we‘ve seen from last season - a Sasha with three clean quads and a fall on a fourth - should win against a clean Aliona with three 3As. Against Anna, it‘s a more difficult case. For one, because her technique really isn‘t the best and ! calls (and URs) can lead to a score like at CoC, which would be beatable for Sasha. But then again, I also think Sasha with her performance quality from last year, should get even less PCS, as the main focus was on the jumps. It depends on how everyone is skating and honestly, ice is slippery and all that, do we really have to try and make predictions about who will win against whom? We saw how well that worked out in the past, most recently the last off-season, where the general consensus was Sasha was going to run away with all the Golds anyway.

 

[plushyfan]

the whole post.

Great post, Fluture!:thumbsup:

And we love all girls! We will see what will happen!

 

[Alex65]

I must admit I was surprised here, I thought reply would be something like "I didn't mean that".

But alas, we already have people who are putting Trusova with 3 falls on 4 quads ahead of Clean Anaa and "probably not" ahead of clean Alena.

lovely :luv17:

But I guess it's the way it should be, when you win as much as Eteri does, you gain tons of haters.

You probably saw it in a dream? Where have you seen this here at least once recently? Yes, I can recall that a couple of years ago there were discourses of supporters and opponents of TT. Since then, all opponents have left this topic, but the number of Tutberidze "defenders" is only growing here. Ask yourself, from whom are you protecting your "deity"? No one has attacked the TT here for a long time. Where are these "tons" of haters? Is it really that any person who expresses his independent opinion should automatically become a "hater" and an enemy? If honestly, it is very tiring to read the same thing over and over.

 

[KOBOT37]

a Sasha with three clean quads and a fall on a fourth

Pardon me, did you read the discussion?

here comment by starlight97:

And how would you feel about Trusova winning with 3 falls on 4 quads, over a clean Kostornaya?

and the answer :

Over Shcherbakova yes, cause at the very least it's a better technique even with the falls, over a clean Kostornaya probably not

If you put Trusova with 1 quad landed and 3 falls anywhere near (let alone ahead) of clean Anna or Alena, then you either don't know much about FS or are an rampant TT hater.

pardon me but saying this :

at the very least it's a better technique even with the falls

isn't normal discussion in my book.

And maybe for some she always was a unique athlete, non withstanding who her coach is?

Obviously.

at least she now knows who truly supports HER

If you mean me, I have always maintained that I put TT above individual skaters.

Was this really all just because of her coach?

Alexandra is an Amazing athlete to this day, yeah, a Quad Queen and Russian rocket. Achievements and skills she has obviously stays with her. I never said she wasn't an amazing athlete (in fact, to the contrary).

And as soon as they leave, they become just like Sasha, not worthy of support?

hey there, can you please, stop putting words in my mouth.

I never said she wasn't worthy of support.

All I said was that I personally won't cheer for her. Many people will disagree with me and that is fine.

But don't be surprised when a TT fans wont cheer for Alexandra (yeah, calling her "circus girl" or "jumping robot" is taking matters way too far, but then they burned LeBron James's Jerseys in Cleveland when he left the team for Miami heat so naturally people get emotional when superstar skater leave the team they are cheering for), especially considering that there aren't that many of Us

Do Anna‘s and Aliona‘s and Alina‘s?

Are (for me) any of them bigger than TTfP? Nah. I will continue cheering for whoever has Tutberidze, Gleikhengauz,Dudakov under her name. Do their personalities matter? absolutely.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

Over Shcherbakova yes, cause at the very least it's a better technique even with the falls

It doesn't sound very logical to me to call a quad with a fall as a better in any way than quads without a fall (at least in figure skating as an olympic sport). The biggest point of a jump is to be safely landed (and to look that way). If a jump is 'cheated' on a take off it will get a GOE deduction, and final GOE for the jump will be no more than +3, as what judges did in Anna quad cases (or if you want as +2 in Satoko's triples cases, when those triples lack height and distance). If a jump is 'cheated' on the landing - but still landed on one foot, it will again get max +3 as a final GOE. If a jump is more cheated on the landing to be called as UR jump in the system the final max GOE will be +2 etc etc One jump can has many qualities and take off is just a part of it (the others are landing of the jump, jump during the air time and jumps connection with the program through the music and/or skating pattern). The sport simply has its own rules, you can't judge it from perspective of your own 'imaginative' rules... I mean, you can, but those arguments don't have any values from the sport point of view. It is like when i'm saying that Brazilians play the best soccer in the world, and many would agree with me. But when French team beat them and won the tittle, than who is the best team in the world, according to the sport itself?

 

[KOBOT37]

You probably saw it in a dream? Where have you seen this here at least once recently?

If for you the post above quoted post isn't hating Eteri and her team, then okay.

 

[starlight97]

I posed an open question to the forum in reply to Tolstoj mentioning a male skater coming second with 3 falls in relation to Sasha and got a logical answer. I don't see how one can read any Eteri hate love or whatever into that exchange.

Do you guys feel like some ot the rather weird changes the ISU made to the rules behind the scenes are there to favor certain skaters/ certain styles in which they want the sport to go?
First prohibiting quads in the SP, which helps Kostornaya, Zagitova etc, now they brought down the lutz to the flip value when Trusova and Shcherbakova repeat that jump in combo and as a quad, while Alena repeats the 3F only.
And they clearly go with her on components over the other two (as they should) which is obvious compared to Trusova but with Anna I feel like they could push her more in that department if they wanted to.
It's funny how people accuse the judges of favoring TT's "quad beans" when all actual facts from reality point in the exact opposite direction

 

[Alex65]

If for you the post above quoted post isn't hating Eteri and her team, then okay.

If only one single formula is permissible: "he who is not with us is against us," then I am not in order with this.