2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[icybear]

Not yet. But when the season starts, I can definitely see some people using her as point to prove against someone.

 

[flanker]

It's not an ideal technique but it is the best we have in senior ladies for quads right now, that is a fact.

Shcherbakova's quads have always been extremely cheated, i mean when a jump is even less than 3.5 revolutions how can you not see it, it worked for her cause quad in ladies is a novelty and as soon as judges started to actually check the rotations and edges, RusFed immediately showed up very aggressive sending formal complaints (Cup of China).

From now on there are rules in place against pre-rotation and cheated take off.

I can't see how sending formal complaint could be evaluated as aggressive. As for judging the last season, there vere some very problematic causes considering russian ladies, not just Anna, and I perfectly remember people who were defending the attitude "it is perfectly right when some skaters are judged more harshly than the others".

As I've said before, Anna's quads are not more prerotated than 99 % of other quads I've ever seen even in men's category, this truly is nothing more than an obsession to create an exemplary case of her for some reason. There are literally users from whose every 50 comments 49 are only about how Anna is a cheater, there were many counterarguments, pictures, videos, nothing of it taken into consideration at all, just continuing in the same old BS. There is no chance for any constructive debate if only one particular skater is repeatedly bashed for literally every jump (bashed because that goes far beyond any reasonable argumentation).

 

[[email protected]]

So, are we going to have a season or what's going on?

 

[GINO]

Sasha with 3 quads does not beat Aliona or Anna. Maybe with a 3A in the SP She could, but the scores this past season showed she needs 4 quads to beat them.

At Skate Canada she was clean in the SP (75) and landed 3/4 quads in the LP (166). This is still 6 points behind Aliona‘s GPF scores, and if Anna goes clean would also be behind that (assuming she’s clean and scored similar to last season)

Sorry, but I can not agree with this. You took the best result of Alena with massive GOE and maximum levels(247). At Skate Canada Sasha had 2 level StSq in the SP and StSq plus spin with 3 level in LP, also for the fallen salchow she scored 3.85 instead of let's say 7.3 on a average triple flip (we are talking about program with three quads) and, of course, the natural increase in components for clean skate. And what we see ... 1,5(StSq4)+0,5(FCSp4)+1(StSq4)+3,45(good triple instead of fallen quad)+2 points in components for skating without falls(actually possible even more)+241= 249,45 - hypothetical score for clean skate at SC with three quads.
So, Sasha can beat Alena with three quads(If we take the initial condition that both skate perfectly)

 

[flanker]

So, are we going to have a season or what's going on?

Nice to see you in person here again

The positive thing is no other JGP event was cancelled (yet ) since the first two were (and that is some time already), and the situation in the organizing countries is becomming better for now (the number of the newly infected is decreasing for the longer period etc.). The other thing is the will of those countries to have a skating event and on what conditions (spectators or not etc.) and the possibility of skaters to go back to training.

The same could be applied to GP, though e.g. if Canada cancelled JGP, it is much more probable they will cancel GP as well. Whether Russia, United States or France would be willing to organize GP events I don't now.

 

[[email protected]]

Thanks, the carantine is over in Moscow effective today. May be life will start to return to normal soon. I just don't know how the girls will fare after staying off ice for so long while in the middle of puberty.

Of course, Alina's come back is a big thing if it happens.

Sasha Trusova....big sigh. As I said, she looked embarassed on the plane coming back from the Nationals. I don't understand her decision rationally. After all, she worked on pcs and there was progress. Her 2 tasks were to master 3A and to find the right number of quads to be consistent. Why she will be more successful in accomplishing those tasks outside Sambo, I have no idea. So. rationally - no. But I can understand her emotionally. "Litlle rocket" could not deliver the impressive launch every one was waiting for. Being one and only star in the group may help her now. But it may be the opposite. Anyway, her tasks are the same: 3A and the optimum number of quads with slow but steady pcs development.

P.S. I hope there will be a season. I am even ready to wear a mask on the stands.

 

[Fried]

P.S. I hope there will be a season. I am even ready to wear a mask on the stands.

As uncomfortable as it may be for athletes to compete on empty ice rinks, I still hope that there will be no indoor mass events as long as no vaccine is available. Aerosols could reach the athletes, masks unfortunately cannot prevent this.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

I think that as as Sasha is growing, her quads and LzLo will struggle more, though she will have to find a strength to weight ratio, rotational speed, and body mass proportion as she become more womanly. Eteri's students, especiall ythose who have learned their jumping foundations under her, have struggled post puberty because of how much they use their arms. So in more blunt terms, their technique fails them when thy become a woman. I hope it will be different for Sasha, she is very strong and athletic but also prepubescent. I think that PCS and triple axel should be their focus this summer as well as restoring the LzLo combinations.

As for 4Lo, 4F, and the other stuff, I would love to see it from her. But I think that without PCS, she will fall behind as she develops. And as we can see with Sasha and Anna, as well as with others in the past, the lack of skating skills becomes more obvious as you grow. Like rewatching SAsha's incredible JWC program from two years ago, the lack of work on her skating skills wasn't nearly as obvious as it is now. Sasha said that she wanted to do a lyrical piece this year, and I think that's a good choice considering what the judges like and don't like.

I just hope that politics after leaving Eteri doesn't hit her score too hard, though they probably will once the next crop is here.

 

[SkateSkates]

Sorry, but I can not agree with this. You took the best result of Alena with massive GOE and maximum levels(247). At Skate Canada Sasha had 2 level StSq in the SP and StSq plus spin with 3 level in LP, also for the fallen salchow she scored 3.85 instead of let's say 7.3 on a average triple flip (we are talking about program with three quads) and, of course, the natural increase in components for clean skate. And what we see ... 1,5(StSq4)+0,5(FCSp4)+1(StSq4)+3,45(good triple instead of fallen quad)+2 points in components for skating without falls(actually possible even more)+241= 249,45 - hypothetical score for clean skate at SC with three quads.
So, Sasha can beat Alena with three quads(If we take the initial condition that both skate perfectly)

Yes, we do agree! Sasha had 4 quads and needed to land all of them to beat Aliona - when she fell on the 4th one, she was about 6 points behind. We are saying the same thing, maybe my point wasn’t getting across. She needs 4 quads to beat Aliona with 3 triple axels.

Or if we take the Nepela skate with 3 quads and add a few points for the missed Lo combo, it’s still not enough. unless we add to PCS as you mentioned, but my post was based on scores that were given last season.

Edit: the 247 also included lvl3 steps and her worst 3A2T of the season so it just becomes 249 too if we are talking about your maximum level scenario.

 

[Mathman]

(the conspiracy theory is an outdated thing and various practices are being implemented).

:yes:

I think the ISU Board was informed to prevent by any means placing Scherbakova and Trusova above Kostornaya. May be RusNats Board was kindly asked to do the same.

The trouble with these conspiracy practices is this: Who are the imagined conspirators who pull the strings of the ISU "board" (does the ISU have a board?) and holds sway over the Russian Federation? Cui bono?

 

[Jontor]

Last year GP assignments were announced 20th June. Will we get this season's assignments next week?

My predictions:

2 Shcherbakova
2 Kostornaia
2 Trusova
2 Zagitova
2 Tuktamysheva
2 Medvedeva
2 Sinitsyna
2 Samodurova
1 Vasilieva
1 Gulyakova

I wouldn't be surprised if Konstantinova gets 1 assignment and Vasilieva gets snubbed.

Wouldn't be surprised either if the whole GP tour this year will be cancelled...

And I hope that Tarakanova, Nugumanova, Sakhanovich, Gubanova, Talalaykina, Tsibinova, Shulskaya gets a gazillion Challenger assignments...

 

[starlight97]

Right now the most likely scenario are competitions without spectators which also seems like the best solution between total cancellation vs normal events with closed halls full of people propagating their germs.

We can be "happy" that this happened now and not a year from now and having the Winter Olympics cancelled.
Cause let's be honest, if they don't have a vaccine till next year, which is doubtful, the postponed 2020 olympics will not take place then either. You can only imagine the athletes in sports that are short lived, like gymnastics, where you work your whole life for that moment and it's impossible to keep the level up for 4 more years. Hell, not even for 1 year. Look at where Yulia's performance level was in Sochi 2014 and where it was exactly 1 year later. Just one example.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Here are my Grand prix predictions, in brackets. REmember last year how it was set up that 1-2-3 (Trusova-Kostornaia-Shcherbakova) were set up to not go against each other and 4-5-6 (Zagitova-Tuktamysheva-Medvedeva) were set up not to go against each other with 7-8-9-10 (Sakhanovich, Sotskova, Konstantinova, Samodurova) spread throughout wherever there were spaces.

18 spots for 6 events, 3 skaters an event.

Tier 1: will not go against each other
Aleksandra Trusova 2
Anna Shcherbakova 2 (random guess, she will get Rostelecom)
Alena Kostornaia 2 (random guess, she'll get Skate America)

Tier 2: will be paired against one of the top 3 but not with each other
Evgenia Medvedeva 2
Alina Zagitova 2 (may not participate, if she does then NHK and Rostelecom are my guesses)
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva 2

Tier 3: sprinkled throughout
Ksenia Sinitsyna 2 (bumped up if Zagitova WD)
Sofia Samodurova 2 (If they choose to only give her one, the other goes to Gubanova, Vasilieva, or whoever is next in line)
Viktoria Vasilieva 1
Anastasia Guliakova host pick (due to lack of SB)

In the case that Zagitova withdraws: one of her spots goes to Vasilieva and the other probably to Gubanova, based on results from RusNat and Cup final. Ksenia Tsibinova and Anastasia Tarakanova are next in line.

Give challengers to Tarakanova, Shulskaya (so underscored at nationals), Tsibinova, Gubanova, Talalaikina, and one last chance to Konstantinova!

So last year they had the same spots, so here is the transferring of spots:
Trusova 2 - Trusova 2
Shcherbakova 2 - Shcherbakova 2
Kostornaia 2 - Kostornaia 2
Zagitova 2 - Zagitova 2
Tuktamysheva 2 - Tuktamysheva 2
Medvedeva 2 - Medvedeva 2
Samodurova 2 - Samodurova 2
Konstantinova 2 - Sinitsyna 1, Guliakova 1 (she can only get host pick)
Sakhanovich 1 - Vasilieva 1
Sotskova 1 - Sinitsyna (2 total for Sinitsyna due to her high SB from JGP Egna)

 

[Scott512]

Are the St. Petersburg skaters back to training yet?

 

[Scott512]

Considering that Putin was openly unhappy about athletes not training for such long time.[/QUOTE]

Last year GP assignments were announced 20th June. Will we get this season's assignments next week?

My predictions:

2 Shcherbakova
2 Kostornaia
2 Trusova
2 Zagitova
2 Tuktamysheva
2 Medvedeva
2 Sinitsyna
2 Samodurova
1 Vasilieva
1 Gulyakova

I wouldn't be surprised if Konstantinova gets 1 assignment and Vasilieva gets snubbed.

Wouldn't be surprised either if the whole GP tour this year will be cancelled...

And I hope that Tarakanova, Nugumanova, Sakhanovich, Gubanova, Talalaykina, Tsibinova, Shulskaya gets a gazillion Challenger assignments...

What has ksenia done to get two Grand Prix events on the senior tour? Did she do anything in the Russian Cup series or make the Junior Grand Prix final or the junior worlds team? I know she sort of got stiffed on the junior worlds team but again she has not dominated juniors she has not been phenomenal at Russian Nationals so what has she done to deserve two senior Grand Prix events? Is she related to Stasya? no doubt she's a very nice skater who is a loose cannon who fights with her coach a lot in the kiss and cry. But no way does she deserve two senior Grand Prix events.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Here are my Grand prix predictions, in brackets. REmember last year how it was set up that 1-2-3 (Trusova-Kostornaia-Shcherbakova) were set up to not go against each other and 4-5-6 (Zagitova-Tuktamysheva-Medvedeva) were set up not to go against each other with 7-8-9-10 (Sakhanovich, Sotskova, Konstantinova, Samodurova) spread throughout wherever there were spaces.

18 spots for 6 events, 3 skaters an event.

Tier 1: will not go against each other
Aleksandra Trusova 2
Anna Shcherbakova 2 (random guess, she will get Rostelecom)
Alena Kostornaia 2 (random guess, she'll get Skate America)

Tier 2: will be paired against one of the top 3 but not with each other
Evgenia Medvedeva 2
Alina Zagitova 2 (may not participate, if she does then NHK and Rostelecom are my guesses)
Elizaveta Tuktamysheva

I don't think this is how the spots will be allocated (although I do think it is how they should be). Rika and Bradie are the top two ranked skaters in the World, and I'm sure those federations will advocate for have them be the highest seeded skaters on the GP. Sasha and Alena are both in the 4-6 group, so they wouldn't meet each other whether your method or the world standings are used. Anna could face one of her talented teammates, but not Rika, using world standings. The drawback is that one or two events might have a weaker field, for example if Bradie and Kaori are the two skaters from the top 6.

 

[Mawwerg]

What has ksenia done to get two Grand Prix events on the senior tour? Did she do anything in the Russian Cup series or make the Junior Grand Prix final or the junior worlds team? I know she sort of got stiffed on the junior worlds team but again she has not dominated juniors she has not been phenomenal at Russian Nationals so what has she done to deserve two senior Grand Prix events? Is she related to Stasya? no doubt she's a very nice skater who is a loose cannon who fights with her coach a lot in the kiss and cry. But no way does she deserve two senior Grand Prix events.

She scored 215.58.

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

Considering that Putin was openly unhappy about athletes not training for such long time.

What has ksenia done to get two Grand Prix events on the senior tour? Did she do anything in the Russian Cup series or make the Junior Grand Prix final or the junior worlds team? I know she sort of got stiffed on the junior worlds team but again she has not dominated juniors she has not been phenomenal at Russian Nationals so what has she done to deserve two senior Grand Prix events? Is she related to Stasya? no doubt she's a very nice skater who is a loose cannon who fights with her coach a lot in the kiss and cry. But no way does she deserve two senior Grand Prix events.[/QUOTE]

She has the second highest junior total score of the entire season, amazing programs, amazing spins, amazing skating skills, and yes she was at JGPF and did quite well. Maybe she was struggling with her lutz in the second half of the season but she deserves two - IMO that JGPF bronze was hers.

And if not 2 to Ksenia, then to who? I know we're speaking of Russian ladies here but compared to last year there isn't THAT much depth, where based on scores and placements Tarusina and Gubanova were "guarenteed" spots but not given any due to the depth. Would they give one to her and then the other to who? Vasilieva? Gubanova? TArakanova? IMO Ksenia is the most desreving

 

[Jontor]

Considering that Putin was openly unhappy about athletes not training for such long time.



What has ksenia done to get two Grand Prix events on the senior tour? Did she do anything in the Russian Cup series or make the Junior Grand Prix final or the junior worlds team? I know she sort of got stiffed on the junior worlds team but again she has not dominated juniors she has not been phenomenal at Russian Nationals so what has she done to deserve two senior Grand Prix events? Is she related to Stasya? no doubt she's a very nice skater who is a loose cannon who fights with her coach a lot in the kiss and cry. But no way does she deserve two senior Grand Prix events.

Ksenia is ranked 11th on the Season's Best list. That's why.
And she came 4th in the JGP Final and 5th at RusNats.

 

[Happy Skates]

What has ksenia done to get two Grand Prix events on the senior tour? Did she do anything in the Russian Cup series or make the Junior Grand Prix final or the junior worlds team? I know she sort of got stiffed on the junior worlds team but again she has not dominated juniors she has not been phenomenal at Russian Nationals so what has she done to deserve two senior Grand Prix events? Is she related to Stasya? no doubt she's a very nice skater who is a loose cannon who fights with her coach a lot in the kiss and cry. But no way does she deserve two senior Grand Prix events.

What? Of course she deserves spots! Ksenia did make the Junior Grand Prix Final actually, and just missed making the podium (she could've been on the podium with her performance and no one would've batted an eye - it came down to judges opinion imo, same as the situation with 2019 junior worlds where she also competed and got fourth), in addition to winning a JGP event this year and getting silver to Kamila at another. She also got a silver at the Youth Olympic games. In addition, she placed 5th at senior nationals (and in the free program she got fourth, beating Liza).

But most importantly to GP spots, she is 11th on the SB list with a score of 215!!! Being on the top 24 SB list in general guarantees you at least one spot and usually two unless you're Russian, but 11th is another level - its almost unheard of that someone that high on the SB list doesn't get two senior GP spots. 215 is an incredibly high score and it would be ridiculous if someone with that score didn't get spots. After the top 6 seniors, I'd say she's first in line to get the spots that Sotskova and Sakhanovich are leaving behind.

Also, generally the Russian cup series doesn't really have an effect on GP spots (national results don't have too much of an effect in general, but if any national competition were to have an effect it would be Nationals, not the Russian Cup which isn't too important of a competition in the grand scale of things). I know I keep saying this but I'm not sure why people think Guliakova will get a spot when she's not on SB list at all and very low on the WS list. She is talented, but winning the Russian Cup when none of the main senior competitors were there doesn't mean much.