Should More Singles Skaters Switch To Pairs?

[Ic3Rabbit]

I am not sure if everyone is aware of that both Megan Wessenberg and Katie McBeath switched to pairs.

Katie is paired with Nate Bartholomay, while Megan is training in Todd and Jenni’s team right now.

Yes, I'm aware, but again. This is very rare and no one knows if they will have success, they have lucked out that they both have phenomenal partners based in pairs as well as great coaches.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

The way you just suggest, that’s indeed ridiculous. However, in some countries it makes sense to switch to pairs or ice dance if the singles field is so packed. For example, in Japan, lots of ladies, with the top ladies working on triple axels and quads, there is nearly no one in pairs and limited numbers in ice dance, if I was a girl who is constantly placing towards the middle or bottom at the nationals, I would start wondering whether the way to 4CC or worlds would be through a different discipline.

In the past there was an interview with skaters who just decided that they want to become dancers and managed to switch pretty successfully. Russian Davakova, who was dating and later married Morozov, managed to switch from pairs to ice dance pretty successfully (she said in an interview that the older she became, the more she got scared during high lifts, twist and throws). I am saying successfully because she managed to qualify to the nationals in a new discipline with a new partner and newly in seniors and placed seventh. Unfortunately she stopped after this one season she stopped skating - I guess it may not be fun when your husband is coaching you, and why bother with so much hard work when she is earning decent money through YouTube videos, so we don’t know whether she would manage to get somewhere internationally. In Russia, Tutberidze also realised that her daughter did not have a chance in singles and spoke to her about switching to ice dance. Now her daughter placed third at the nationals and fifth at the junior worlds. There are of course a number of skaters who switched and it didn’t work out for them. Tarasenko tried to switch to pairs, did one season, was pretty useless and after that we haven’t seen him again. Stavitskaya tried ice dance, and she also gradually disappeared. It seems that the earlier one decides to switch, the easier it may be. If they switch and then are still junior eligible, it is easier than switching and moving to seniors. It also seems that it helps if one’s mother (or husband) is a coach. That make things easier.

Not ridiculous what I'm saying because I see it happen all the time over many years. Also, what you are saying is very rarely happening and only because they are already elite and have access to fantastic coach/relative that can put in many extra hours with them (in the case of Davakova/Morozov etc).

Also, as someone else has pointed out, it's hard to switch from ladies to dance in Japan because you need usually an international male to partner you and then he has to get citizenship. Look at team KoKo, Tim Koleto is American and switched to Japan to skate with Misato Komatsubara, Same when Chris Reed and Kana.(Except Chris had citizenship already).

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

(I will delete this if you think I am giving away too much information. )

You can do both because you have an extraordinary sense both of your own body and of your partner. I have seen you skate in local events where you had to prop up a partner who was not a pro, but your deftness made him look accomplished.

 

[alexaa]

I read that post twice just in case it would be deleted for revealing too much. Thanks Mathman for the info

 

[readernick]

In response to the original post, I think they should in Japan. Japan has a lot of female/male skaters who are talented but will never make it out of domestic competition. At the same time, they had one pair's team and only 4? ice dance teams at nationals. However, I think the posters who suggest it will only take a year to adjust are unrealistic. Most single skaters probably need a 2 years at minimum to become good at pairs or ice dance elements and establish great relationships with their partners. So, if you are 14-17and willing to switch it is a good idea because getting spots on the JGP while your elements aren't really up to international standard is possible, but if you are older you will have to struggle in domestic competitions for quite awhile before receiving any kind of important international event. It might be hard for the skaters to stay motivated.

 

[el henry]

Just a few words about Shingo, and probably works this way for other skaters as well, but I wouldn't know, I leave to others more knowledgeable.

Shingo didn't wake up one day and say, gosh, I'm never gonna beat Yuzu Shoma or even Yuma, let's try dance. He was *recruited* by the Japanese Fed to try dance. After all, he has performance chops to spare and skating skills.

The JSF had a partner waiting in the wings, Utana, that they wanted to pair with him. This was not some random, oops, let's go to the rink and see who wants to skate with me. I would suspect, but absolutely no proof, that JSF was looking for an ice dance couple without citizenship issues. They had every support from the Fed, from training at TCC, and assignments, and encouragement.

It just so happened that it worked, ( no secret that I Utashin) but they had everything going for them. Not every prospective "switcher" will be so lucky.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Just a few words about Shingo, and probably works this way for other skaters as well, but I wouldn't know, I leave to others more knowledgeable.

Shingo didn't wake up one day and say, gosh, I'm never gonna beat Yuzu Shoma or even Yuma, let's try dance. He was *recruited* by the Japanese Fed to try dance. After all, he has performance chops to spare and skating skills.

The JSF had a partner waiting in the wings, Utana, that they wanted to pair with him. This was not some random, oops, let's go to the rink and see who wants to skate with me. I would suspect, but absolutely no proof, that JSF was looking for an ice dance couple without citizenship issues. They had every support from the Fed, from training at TCC, and assignments, and encouragement.

It just so happened that it worked, ( no secret that I Utashin) but they had everything going for them. Not every prospective "switcher" will be so lucky.

Yes, this happens that some Feds will move skaters to other disciplines. But again, that still does not guarantee success.

 

[Sai Bon]

Just a few words about Shingo, and probably works this way for other skaters as well, but I wouldn't know, I leave to others more knowledgeable.

Shingo didn't wake up one day and say, gosh, I'm never gonna beat Yuzu Shoma or even Yuma, let's try dance. He was *recruited* by the Japanese Fed to try dance. After all, he has performance chops to spare and skating skills.

The JSF had a partner waiting in the wings, Utana, that they wanted to pair with him. This was not some random, oops, let's go to the rink and see who wants to skate with me. I would suspect, but absolutely no proof, that JSF was looking for an ice dance couple without citizenship issues. They had every support from the Fed, from training at TCC, and assignments, and encouragement.

It just so happened that it worked, ( no secret that I Utashin) but they had everything going for them. Not every prospective "switcher" will be so lucky.

Thanks for the background info, el henry. Just to add, aside from the fact that most Japanese male figure skaters tend to be on the small side and not suited to couple disciplines, Japan has limited rink capacity (Utashin train at TCC). I imagine the Japanese Fed will be more actively matching up potential couples in the future. Kana Muramoto, also a former singles skater who competed in ice dance with Chris Reed, mentioned in an interview that she had been approached several times by the Fed to try ice dance, but only gave it a go after she struggled for several years with jumps and decided it was either ice dance or quit skating. I guess the Fed needs to convert them at a younger age (especially the boys, though I guess there is no way of telling how tall they are going to be).

 

[hanca]

Also, as someone else has pointed out, it's hard to switch from ladies to dance in Japan because you need usually an international male to partner you and then he has to get citizenship. Look at team KoKo, Tim Koleto is American and switched to Japan to skate with Misato Komatsubara, Same when Chris Reed and Kana.(Except Chris had citizenship already).

It was me pointing it out about the Japanese citizenship, and to clarify, it is not hard for Japanese lady to switch to ice dance or pairs with a foreign partner, if they can accept that they will only be able to compete at 4CC and worlds, but not at the Olympics. Takahashi-Tran were doing ok, bronze at worlds, but had no chance to go to olympics. If I was a Japanese girl who is constantly in the middle of the pack at the nationals, let’s say all the time around the tenth place and having no chance moving up to top three to ever get to 4CC, worlds and Olympics, then doing pairs even with a foreign partner without having a chance getting to the Olympics would be much better. At least we could do GP events, 4CC and worlds, and that’s pretty good too.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

It was me pointing it out about the Japanese citizenship, and to clarify, it is not hard for Japanese lady to switch to ice dance or pairs with a foreign partner, if they can accept that they will only be able to compete at 4CC and worlds, but not at the Olympics. Takahashi-Tran were doing ok, bronze at worlds, but had no chance to go to olympics. If I was a Japanese girl who is constantly in the middle of the pack at the nationals, let’s say all the time around the tenth place and having no chance moving up to top three to ever get to 4CC, worlds and Olympics, then doing pairs even with a foreign partner without having a chance getting to the Olympics would be much better. At least we could do GP events, 4CC and worlds, and that’s pretty good too.

First of all that was skatesocs that was referring to Japan before you and I was referring to them. Secondly, I believe the OP said TOP OF THE SPORT. Sorry, but switching over to do GP's and 4CCs and that's about it is no top of the sport. And you can just stop the lecture you think you are giving me. This is my world, and I've been there done that and seen many things in this sport over decades. You aren't telling me things I haven't heard or seen, right or wrong and successful or most of the time unsuccessful. But hey, if one is happy with the furthest they can get being 4cc's then I guess good for them.

 

[blue_idealist]

Yes, I'm aware, but again. This is very rare and no one knows if they will have success, they have lucked out that they both have phenomenal partners based in pairs as well as great coaches.

I'm surprised to hear that about Wessenberg. I perceived her as quite tall, but I could be wrong.

ETA: I just looked up her height on Wikipedia, and I am wrong, LOL.

 

[hanca]

Not ridiculous what I'm saying because I see it happen all the time over many years. Also, what you are saying is very rarely happening and only because they are already elite and have access to fantastic coach/relative that can put in many extra hours with them (in the case of Davakova/Morozov etc).

I did say that it is easier when one has access to extra coaching from a relative (Tutberidze’s daughter or Davankova), but there were skaters who successfully switched and did not have this access. Antipova learned pairs in one season and finished eight at worlds. (Pity that their coach, Pavlova, was so abusive that Antipova ended up with anorexia after a few seasons). Kadyrova also learned pairs within one season. At the end of the season they placed second at the Russian final cup in seniors and got to the national reserve team. So it is possible, but I would say there is as many success stories as there is unsuccessful switches. It is 50:50 in my view.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I'm surprised to hear that about Wessenberg. I perceived her as quite tall, but I could be wrong.

ETA: I just looked up her height on Wikipedia, and I am wrong, LOL.

LOL I was just about to answer you and say, no she's about 5'1"!

 

[Dreamer57]

A couple of British singles skaters have recently decided to try out pairs and I think it is an interesting move to make. Maybe they feel that pairs elements will suit them better. Hopefully they can make it a success and we might see them at more international events. Although I think that rink space and training will be much harder especially during these times.

The JSF had a partner waiting in the wings, Utana, that they wanted to pair with him.

I wish the JSF would take this proactive approach with pairs too. As far as I know, Shoya wants to continue in pairs and is still looking for a partner

I also wanted to add that the pairs field (see worlds entries for example) seems to be shrinking. Pairs skating is such a beautiful discipline to watch! I'd love to see more pairs in general so more audiences can support the sport. So if single skaters want to switch then good luck to them

 

[hanca]

First of all that was skatesocs that was referring to Japan before you and I was referring to them. Secondly, I believe the OP said TOP OF THE SPORT. Sorry, but switching over to do GP's and 4CCs and that's about it is no top of the sport. And you can just stop the lecture you think you are giving me. This is my world, and I've been there done that and seen many things in this sport over decades. You aren't telling me things I haven't heard or seen, right or wrong and successful or most of the time unsuccessful. But hey, if one is happy with the furthest they can get being 4cc's then I guess good for them.

Takahashi-Tran competed at worlds, if you noticed! The switch would be not for just GP and 4CC, but for world championships. Maybe not good enough for you, I get it that you would prefer olympics, but spending one’s career constantly at 5-10th place at the nationals without ever getting to worlds would not be satisfying either. So it is everyone’s choice what they want to do. Any decision brings risks, which sometimes pays off and other times don’t.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Takahashi-Tran competed at worlds, if you noticed! The switch would be not for just GP and 4CC, but for world championships. Maybe not good enough for you, I get it that you would prefer olympics, but spending one’s career constantly at 5-10th place at the nationals without ever getting to worlds would not be satisfying either. So it is everyone’s choice what they want to do. Any decision brings risks, which sometimes pays off and other times don’t.

I may make myself look really dumb by saying this, but didn’t Savchenko/Massot get to compete in the olympics? Neither of them are from Germany!

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Takahashi-Tran competed at worlds, if you noticed! The switch would be not for just GP and 4CC, but for world championships. Maybe not good enough for you, I get it that you would prefer olympics, but spending one’s career constantly at 5-10th place at the nationals without ever getting to worlds would not be satisfying either. So it is everyone’s choice what they want to do. Any decision brings risks, which sometimes pays off and other times don’t.

Never said it wasn't anyone's choice. But I did say that risk in this sport with this topic rarely pays off.
Can we just agree to disagree here?

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I may make myself look really dumb by saying this, but didn’t Savchenko/Massot get to compete in the olympics? Neither of them are from Germany!

Savchenko competed for Germany with Robin Szolkowy, and was allowed to continue when pairing with Massot who had to get citizenship IIRC, there was a big to do where they had to pay 30,000 Euros to get Massot released from French Fed.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

(I will delete this if you think I am giving away too much information. )

You can do both because you have an extraordinary sense both of your own body and of your partner. I have seen you skate in local events where you had to prop up a partner who was not a pro, but your deftness made him look accomplished.

Thanks for the giggle. The local events part was especially :rofl2:

 

[eterislouisvuitton]

I guess it's not easy. Diana Davis and Annabelle Morozov are doing very well in their switch to dances because they have many relations that can get them top coaching, "politics," and partners. And they took it, worked hard, and stars aligned. Not everyone has that - how many kids have switched to pairs or dance then disappeared?

People like Kanysheva have a good base coach with Samokhin, but I'm not sure she will go too far. I would love for her to be able to, but the depth is insane in some countries. In pairs it's even harder, and you never really realize how scary it is to be thrown around like that until you feel it for yourself. In a million switches, one is successful