I'm not as optimistic. IMO Alysa's jumps were more about rotation speed, rotation speed that was possible in part due to being 4 7" to 4 8". She is a charming skater, chock full of personalty, wonderful spins etc., but IMO her jumps were underpowered, more Sotoko than Kaori, Wakaba,Sasha, Aloyna (or even Glenn or Gold). I think you either have powerful legs or you don't. I can't think of a single skater who turned this around. (Maybe someone else can, but I can't)
Alysa Liu Ready for Change
- Thread starter natsulian
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- Nov 12, 2011
agree with this, and i hope since her new team is focusing on speed in and out of jumps that this helps her. she has never been a fast skater and what happens when you don't have speed going into a jump? you have to muscle it. wishing the best for her.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2018
Bringing this back to Alysa, what things would you like to see from her in terms of improvement?
Mine:
I don't find her technique deplorable, but I do think that it needs some fine-tuning (as is the case with everyone). Despite her "growth spurt," she rotates like a "rocket" as someone said and with a little bit more speed and power, I'm sure she is more than capable of regaining her 3A and a quad (maybe not the Lutz but possibly a Toe or Salchow). Fixing her edge on the Flip and pre-rotation issues will also help with the overall steadiness and correctness of her technique as well, but those things come with time. One of my favorite lines from her is when she states that things like this will take time and she doesn't expect results overnight. That is more humble and realistic than 99% of the people who criticize her.
Mine:
- Speed
- Ice coverage
- Skating skills
I don't find her technique deplorable, but I do think that it needs some fine-tuning (as is the case with everyone). Despite her "growth spurt," she rotates like a "rocket" as someone said and with a little bit more speed and power, I'm sure she is more than capable of regaining her 3A and a quad (maybe not the Lutz but possibly a Toe or Salchow). Fixing her edge on the Flip and pre-rotation issues will also help with the overall steadiness and correctness of her technique as well, but those things come with time. One of my favorite lines from her is when she states that things like this will take time and she doesn't expect results overnight. That is more humble and realistic than 99% of the people who criticize her.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
same for me. i also think increasing speed going into her jumps will reduce her risk of injury and take some of the stress of her joints. momentum always helps. i hope we see a more "ready for seniors" Alysa this season.
Practising stroking/building and maintaining speed will surely also strengthen legs, which could also help achieve better jumps!
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
I agree, and I think we see this trend a lot where you have a skater who can do the difficult jumps consistently as a junior, but then that same technique doesn't survive past 15 or 16. It's a stark contrast to someone like Rika, who didn't have good junior results but saw her consistency actually improve as a senior since she didn't have to tinker much with her jumps. Alyssa already had a lot to work on to catch up with the top Russian women without having to worry about losing her hardest jumps, so hopefully she can manage to regain at least the 3A to stay within reach.
- Joined
- Nov 12, 2011
sharing constructive criticism doesn't take away anything Alysa has accomplished and i don't think anyone here has ill intentions. she has made history as the youngest ever repeat US ladies champion, that is huge. although, she has very lofty aspirations to be able to compete with the Russians and medal in Beijing and she has a lot of work to do, even to be able to compete with Kamila and Daria on the junior level. she is clearly taking the right steps and i think everyone here is supportive of her.
not to mention, the level of senior ladies skating in the US is nothing like the competition she is up against internationally. Bradie and Mariah can't compete with top ladies either. we are just providing insight as viewers on what she will need to reach her goal.
Lol? Everyone "jumps, spins, performs, and strokes" as novices. If you continue to jump, spin, perform, and stroke like a novice at seniors, that's an issue.
I'm sure Liu herself is aware of her issues.
I think it is realistic that she will get the 3A back, certainly. And Alysa really had the fastest rotation speed I've ever seen, so perhaps that will carry her over. As far as her skating skills-it is only speed that is an issue for me, the rest is lovely. I suspect though, that this is the year Mariah Bell will finally win nationals.
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
If you're right and Alysa regains the 3A, I think it will be hard for Mariah to win. Alysa should close the PCS gap a little more with an additional year of growth and experience, and being able to do that hard of a jump three times in a competition gives her a huge edge.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2019
Even without a 3A or 4Lz, Alysa has a BV advantage on all the US ladies. She routinely does 3-3s in the second half of her program, unlike Bradie and Mariah. Mariah's BV is lower compared to Alysa and Bradie since she (so far) only does one 3-3 in her free program.
Edit: Just looked at the numbers. At Bradie's cleanest skate last season, she had a BV of 63 while Mariah had a BV of 60 at US Nats. Alysa has a BV of 76 at US Nats.
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- Feb 11, 2018
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She had a BV of 74.89 at JGPF, and lost to someone with a BV of 60.91. It can happen and comes down to URs and GOEs.
(I say this as someone who wants her to win for a third time.)
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2010
That's a good point. It does seem that Nationals panels are a little more likely to overlook close < for preferred skaters though. If everyone is doing their best jumps, Mariah and Bradie probably deserve higher GOE on those elements, but Alyssa stays close because she tends to have difficult entrances that make up for other deficiencies in the jump (which I don't agree with, but it is what it is).
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- Feb 11, 2018
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Agreed on national judging (and not just US
).My basic observations from last season is that her jump entrances are not exactly a strength (actually the area where I believe she can improve the most on GOE) but I followed juniors more than seniors so I can't really comment on Mariah and Bradie's GOE potential vs Alysa.
The BV thing happened again at Jr. World's btw, I forgot mention above. Alysa had a 72.11 BV and lost to someone with a 60.85 BV.
Anyway, all this relies on at least one quad and two 3As being included in the FS BV, and the latest indication is that those aren't back. I think the experiences from Nationals 2019, JGPF and JWC tells us that with a ~60 BV, she is probably going to lose. BUT I hope and believe she will get her other jumps back, this is just a tough time for all skaters trying to train.
- Joined
- Apr 5, 2017
A little harsh for a fifteen year old who lost a lot of training time. Let's see where she is in January at least before calling her career over.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2018
Yeah, let's not make comments on the body of a fifteen year old child
I don't comment her body, I comment her heavy skating and jumping.Yeah, let's not make comments on the body of a fifteen year old child
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2019
the right way to say that in English is "labored" I'd say.
Well, she didn't lose training time really. But the issue is: Puberty. Puberty happens. Probably 50% of the bright young female stars in figure skating don't survive puberty, and you can't stop what you are genetically predisposed to be. Anna Shcerbakova has lucky genetics, but will Trusova or Kostornaia? Gubanova didn't survive puberty. The Japanese girls were powerful before puberty, so they survived with jumps intact. But when your jumps are completed by fast rotation vs. powerful legs, I'm not sure it is possible to adjust long term. The program itself is lovely and well crafted.
