The Missing Gold Olympic Medal

[kittyjake5]

It does not surprise me that while Michelle was competing she was not popular in Europe. I am not sure if any of the American ladies at that time were popular. Heck I heard that Sasha was heckled at Worlds in Russia (not sure if it is true or not) Me thinks it is a little bit of jealousy against Kwan for kicking b.... for so many years. Sorry but the European ladies could not catch Kwan and she left them in the dust and that may have something to do with her not being well liked or popular in Europe.

 

[astimegoesby]

Of course, Browning was a great competitor at worlds, but he was never very good at handling the Olympic pressure... Sure he was injured in 92, but in 94?

Kurt said having to withdraw from Divisionals and Canadians because of his back injury prior to the 1992 Olympics actually hurt his Olympic chances more than the injury itself. He just wasn't as prepared as he usually was before a big competition.

As for 1994, there might have been another factor for Kurt other than not being able to handle the Olympic pressure.

I remember a CTV fluff piece which aired, ironically enough, before Kurt's 1994 Olympics SP where Kurt said something along the lines of he didn't need an Olympic medal to be happy. Not that Kurt didn't want to win one, mind you, but if it didn't happen, it wouldn't be the end of the world for him. He also said he didn't think he had the right to feel he needed or deserved anything else on top of everything else he accomplished throughout his career and everyone else he'd met who'd experienced much worse things (losing a child, serious health issues, etc.)

I also remember another interview Kurt did after the 1994 Olympics where he said he considered turning pro after winning 1993 Worlds because in his mind, that's when Kurt felt he'd accomplished everything he wanted to do in his eligible career.

Kurt said he didn't regret competing in the 1994 Olympics, but wondered whether he was 100% in the right competitive frame of mind he needed to be in to win Olympic gold since in his mind, he mentally quit after 1993 Worlds.

I'm not saying Kurt didn't want to win an Olympic medal or he deliberately sabotaged himself in Lillehammer. I'm just saying there might have been other factors involved other than simply not being able to handle the Olympic pressure.

I guess what I'm trying to say is as devastated as Kurt was over not winning an Olympic medal, he knew, even before the 1994 Olympics, that it wouldn't be the end of the world for him if he never won one, and the next phase of Kurt's career and the things that really mattered to him would still be there regardless of whether he won or lost.

A few days ago, I rewatched another Kurt interview from 1997 where he said although a part of him would always wonder "What if..." in regards to the Olympics, he also said he wouldn't trade any of the things he did accomplish (landing the first quad, his four world titles, his wonderful pro career) for an Olympic medal.

I've seen interviews with other skaters who were still quite upset about their Olympic disappointments several years afterwards, and I think athletes in general tend to be a lot less forgiving over their disappointing competitive experiences than their fans. I know the vast majority of Kurt, Todd, and Michelle's fans don't think any less of them after they didn't win the Olympic medals they wanted!

And as devastated as I was for Kurt when he lost his chance for Olympic gold, the way he handled himself afterwards and the way he was able to put the Olympics in perspective even before his Lillehammer SP is one of the things I admire most about him...and it's an example I try to follow during my own disappointing experiences in life. I think more athletes and fans in general should try and do the same.

 

[Tonichelle]

I'll bet he'd have an even bigger perspective about it now that he's a seemingly devoted father (can he get any sweeter? LOL)

They just couldn't comprehend all that ado US-people made around [Kwan].

They're not the only ones... and my family's all American

 

[gio]

It does not surprise me that while Michelle was competing she was not popular in Europe. I am not sure if any of the American ladies at that time were popular. Heck I heard that Sasha was heckled at Worlds in Russia (not sure if it is true or not) Me thinks it is a little bit of jealousy against Kwan for kicking b.... for so many years. Sorry but the European ladies could not catch Kwan and she left them in the dust and that may have something to do with her not being well liked or popular in Europe.

I don't get the jealousy thing! :scratch: I don't understand why a French would cheer for a Russian skater, or a German for an Italian one? France vs Russia is not the same as California vs Florida. A British or a Finnish could more easily cheer for Kwan rather than Slutskaya.
About Sasha, I've heard the complete opposite. She was liked in Russia, because she has Ukrainian or Russian descent, Sasha is a Russian male name, she used Dark Eyes (!!!).
Sasha used some popular European music (Rota RJ, Malaguena, Dark Eyes), her style IMO was similiar to Witt (diva on ice, drama, passion, temperament). Just see her Malaguena in comparision to Yamaguchi one. So in Turin the audience was enthusiastic about it.

So, for Kwan not being loved in Europe, IMO there are some factors such as 1)not wanting to appear in Europe, 2)her style, 3)her early musical choices. Certainly it's NOT because of her being American, or of Chinese descent.

 

[demarinis5]

Does it really matter if a skater is loved or popular in a country other than
their origin? What does that have do with the topic of this thread. This thread is getting weird.

 

[hockeyfan228]

I don't get the jealousy thing! :scratch: I don't understand why a French would cheer for a Russian skater, or a German for an Italian one?

If you watch the flags that people hold up and the groups who are doing cheering, you can see patterns in the crowd. Supporters of Russian skaters are often the same fans who are loudest in their support for skaters from former Soviet republics, even Ukraine and Georgia, despite the tensions between governments.

At events held in Europe, there is a vociferous group of French fans who travel together, paint their faces red, white, and blue, wave red/white/blue pompoms, and have airhorns (although I think these may have been banned recently). They are almost always fans of Russian skaters, judging from the noise they make. (I've been one section over from them twice.)

She was liked in Russia, because she has Ukrainian or Russian descent,

One would have thought so, but I was in Moscow, and she was booed. If you read any of the translations interviews from Russian coaches and commentators, many felt she was held up artificially as a rival to Slutskaya for US TV money, when she was clearly, in their opinion, a far inferior skater. In Moscow, Cohen was considered the only skater who had a chance to beat Slutskaya in her home country. Of course, by then, Tarasova was no longer at her side.

NA fans often argue Eastern bloc judging, but never underestimate the resentment of US media money, and how it is perceived to influence the results.

 

[attyfan]

...
One would have thought so, but I was in Moscow, and she was booed. If you read any of the translations interviews from Russian coaches and commentators, many felt she was held up artificially as a rival to Slutskaya for US TV money, when she was clearly, in their opinion, a far inferior skater. In Moscow, Cohen was considered the only skater who had a chance to beat Slutskaya in her home country. Of course, by then, Tarasova was no longer at her side.
...

I read that Sasha was very well received at CoR in either late 2002 or late 2003 (I forgot which) -- there was even a sign (in either Russian or Ukrainian) referring to her as "Our Champion". I don't recall, though, if Irina was there or not.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Was that when Cohen was coached by Tarasova? I remember she was quoted describing how Tarasova took her to museums and maybe the ballet in Russia, and she did do at least one interview for Russian TV. Tarasova certainly placed her to be embraced by the crowd.

By Moscow, Tarasova was no longer, and the other coaches were pretty vocal about saying how overrated she was.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Although not a fan, I do think Cohen is a wonderful skater in many respects and it is a shame she did not translate her talent into any really "big" wins like I said. However I do agree with those who feel she is overrated in a sense, in the sense that:

1)She did not come through with those big wins ever really, despite all the chances and times seemingly set to do so.

2)Some of the shortcomings of her skating were always ignored by U.S media and experts who promoted her: smaller jumps with weaker technique, more shallow edges, lack of speed compared to her rivals.

 

[gio]

If you watch the flags that people hold up and the groups who are doing cheering, you can see patterns in the crowd. Supporters of Russian skaters are often the same fans who are loudest in their support for skaters from former Soviet republics, even Ukraine and Georgia, despite the tensions between governments.

That's normal, because 1)there are many Russians living in former Soviet republics; 2)a lot of skaters who represent former Soviet republic are Russian and the more important 3)they lived in the same country for many years.
But what has Spain to do with Russia? Nothing!!!

At events held in Europe, there is a vociferous group of French fans who travel together, paint their faces red, white, and blue, wave red/white/blue pompoms, and have airhorns (although I think these may have been banned recently). They are almost always fans of Russian skaters, judging from the noise they make. (I've been one section over from them twice.)

Very strange, considering the booing at the dance medal ceremony at Euros in 2006 held in France, when Delobel/Shoenfelder didn't win a medal. Or all the controversy when Krylova/Ovsiannikov won over Anissina/Peizerat. I think you are referring when they don't have a French skater to cheer.

Of course that a lot of Russian skaters are loved in Europe. But that is also due to the fact that they participate a lot in shows in Europe as well as Asian skaters. But there are no American skaters. I don't understant if they are too expensive or what. Japan - Europe and USA - Europe is practically the same distance, but American skaters just don't come. :frown2:

No US skater partecipate in the Oberstdorf gala held every year, there is no US skater present in the shows that are going to be held in Europe. On the other hand skaters from Canada, China and Japan are present.

 

[GoldMedalist]

Japan - Europe and USA - Europe is practically the same distance, but American skaters just don't come. :frown2:

Flying over the Ocean is too boring, apparently.

I would not turn down any trip to Europe.

:scratch:

 

[hockeyfan228]

But what has Spain to do with Russia? Nothing!!!

Nothing at all, except a substantial Russian immigrant population in Spain, among them prominent cultural figures like Maya Plisetskaya, who was the head of Compañía Nacional de Danza de España when it was still a classical ballet company, and who has since returned to Russia.

 

[gio]

Nothing at all, except a substantial Russian immigrant population in Spain, among them prominent cultural figures like Maya Plisetskaya, who was the head of Compañía Nacional de Danza de España when it was still a classical ballet company, and who has since returned to Russia.

I don't understand what do you want to say? Every country has substantial immigrant populations.
If you put it like that, also in the USA there are a lot of Russian immigrants. We have them in this forum and Sasha Cohen's mother too.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Yes, we do.

But in Europe, culture is high and everywhere you turn, as we cultureless and declasse North Americans who live in a wasteland of hideous architecture and fast food and strip malls are reminded of again and again and again, and it only makes sense that your average European, having been raised in the airy world of culture, would have more in common with the interests of its Russian population, who were raised with constant culture -- and skating -- on Soviet TV (or by parents who were raised with such and passed it along), than would your average beer-guzzling, Ford-truck-driving, Kwan- or Buttle-loving North American.

As far as what Europeans have in common, "against" the US, for example:

The EU
The Euro
Five weeks of vacation
Weariness of being told about how superior the US is to everyone and how Europe would have been a nightmare and steeped in poverty had US troops not saved it during WWII and created the Marshall plan afterwards.

 

[gio]

But in Europe, culture is high and everywhere you turn, as we cultureless and declasse North Americans who live in a wasteland of hideous architecture and fast food and strip malls are reminded of again and again and again, and it only makes sense that your average European, having been raised in the airy world of culture, would have more in common with the interests of its Russian population, who were raised with constant culture -- and skating -- on Soviet TV (or by parents who were raised with such and passed it along), than would your average beer-guzzling, Ford-truck-driving, Kwan- or Buttle-loving North American.
As far as what Europeans have in common, "against" the US, for example:
The EU
The Euro
Five weeks of vacation
Weariness of being told about how superior the US is to everyone and how Europe would have been a nightmare and steeped in poverty had US troops not saved it during WWII and created the Marshall plan afterwards.

Do I have to laugh, or do I have to cry after reading this message??? It's incredible how people take every opportunity to talk about politics! I'm fed up!!! Wasn't there a rule in this forum not to talk about politics?
Why did you write this message?? What do you want to proove? This is going so OT. Aren't we supposed to talk about skaters?

About the message you have wrote, I just say no comment. Maybe you wanted to make a provocation. I don't fall in these traps, so I don't answer. Also because this message has no tie with the discussion.

BYE

 

[Tonichelle]

I don't understant if they are too expensive or what. Japan - Europe and USA - Europe is practically the same distance, but American skaters just don't come. .

money probably does play a factor...

I also think crowd reaction does too. If Sasha Cohen is going to get a bigger response/headline a show in the US it's in her best interest to be in that show (in the case right now Stars On Ice)

if they're going to boo her like some skaters have been at shows/competitions... I wouldn't want to experience that night after night either...

It's somewhat of the reverse here... some european/Russian skaters choose not to skate here in shows because they can get a bigger/better welcome elsewhere...

IIRC when American skaters did do mini tours in the early 90s they didn't get enough of a response to continue... that could jsut be SOI though that I'm thinking of...

just a thought... I'm rambling.

 

[gio]

I agree Toni! Probably money and crowd are the two major factors!

There are some Euro skaters who became popular in NA (Sabovcik, Witt, Gordeeva, Yagudin, Baiul, Fontana). Before Torino Fontana was probably more known in the US, rather than in Italy.

But I think that Cohen looks, style and temperament make her popular in Italy. So I hope one day she will remake her Dark Eyes in Torino.

 

[Mathman]

..your average beer-guzzling, Ford-truck-driving, Kwan- or Buttle-loving North American...

So true, so true. Just the other day a big brawl broke out at the Monster Truck Demolition Rally/World Wresting Smash-Mouth Specatacular between the Buttle Butt-heads and the Sandhu Storm Troopers.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Those skating shows in America are bascally attended by die-hard fans of figure skating who know Todd as well as Alexei. Other attendees to these shows are treats by the parents for their children (especially daughters).

Drawing any conclusions other than that, is irrelevant for me since I do not like skating shows per se. Prefer a good opera or a day at Shea Stadium.

Cultural? Qu'est ce que c'est Cultural?

One group of immigrants is more cultural than another? hmmm.

Joe

 

[mzheng]

I don't get the jealousy thing! :scratch: I don't understand why a French would cheer for a Russian skater, or a German for an Italian one? France vs Russia is not the same as California vs Florida. A British or a Finnish could more easily cheer for Kwan rather than Slutskaya.
About Sasha, I've heard the complete opposite. She was liked in Russia, because she has Ukrainian or Russian descent, Sasha is a Russian male name, she used Dark Eyes (!!!).
Sasha used some popular European music (Rota RJ, Malaguena, Dark Eyes), her style IMO was similiar to Witt (diva on ice, drama, passion, temperament). Just see her Malaguena in comparision to Yamaguchi one. So in Turin the audience was enthusiastic about it.

So, for Kwan not being loved in Europe, IMO there are some factors such as 1)not wanting to appear in Europe, 2)her style, 3)her early musical choices. Certainly it's NOT because of her being American, or of Chinese descent.

Well your second paragraph contradict you last sentance. Am I wrong to say in general European are more conservative than American? Ppl with different ethnics other than traditional European are difficult get accepted in Europe than here in US. Call it 'glass ceiling' or 'glass wall'. No place tolerant/encoourage diversity cuturals and ethnics like NA (at least at those coast regions). Ppl in asia countries (ie. Japan, China, etc.) may cheer for skaters with different color. but essentially or most of them, imo, just kind of ecentric chasing, for the sake of chase 'weternized fashion' like 'westernized fashion'. Eventually any other foregn cutural would get melted/losted in local cutural......