Plushenko: "What is happening is absurd."

[Lzbee]

Most other sports have a way for athletes to query a judgement and potentially challenge it, why can't figure skating have something like this too?

On the other hand, Sasha's scores were justified imo, it's others that were judged more leniently so the above wouldn't help unless skaters are allowed to query other competitor's scores.

 

[Anoosheh]

So, basically a judge can be as obviously biased as Judge #6 at Nats and Sasha should just suck it up?

If complaining about something like that is poor sportsmanship...well call me John McEnroe because "You cannot be serious!"

Judges have the most important job in figure skating, determining who wins, if they can't take the time to be professional in their judgements the sport might as well pack it in now.

I think you missed the main message in my first reply to you:
"It is very unprofessional of a skater or a coach to publicly label judges as harsh or unfair when doing interviews.
If they have actual concerns with proper evidence, instead of publicly whining and complaining, they should discuss the issue with people who are in charge of evaluating the situation and LET THOSE PEOPLE DECIDE if things were fair or unfair.
Skaters and coaches should keep their personal opinions to themselves. They are there to be judged BY the judges, they are not there to pass judgements ON the judges. If they are interested in evaluating the judges and bringing justice to skating, they should quit skating and apply for positions that will allow them to do that.
But in their current positions, due to the conflict of interest, it would be unethical to express their personal opinions."

Well maybe they should work at that? Skaters don't believe judges are biased for no reason, as other posters have pointed out pretty much every skater has been totally lowballed by one or more at some time or even all the time.

I don't like the idea that judges can make crappy judgements and get off Scott free because it's "bad sportsmanship" to call them out. Why should they get away with it? If I mess up at work I'll get called on it, why shouldn't they?

Do all skaters believe that?
I believe some of those customs and border officers should work on their attitude. I think they are lazy and rude. But whenever I'm interacting with them I make sure I keep my opinions to myself. There are certain individuals who have the authority to freely express their opinions in front of those officers, but I'm not one of them.

 

[anonymoose_au]

If they have actual concerns with proper evidence, instead of publicly whining and complaining, they should discuss the issue with people who are in charge of evaluating the situation and LET THOSE PEOPLE DECIDE if things were fair or unfair

The problem there is, I don't think it's in the interest of those who oversee the judges to take those complaints on board. And perhaps coaches have done so before and got precisely nowhere. Judges have been doing shonky stuff for years and I find it impossible to believe that they haven't just ignored it, because they know no-one will stand up to them.

I also find it interesting that all the complaining about Sasha's scores is suddenly just a bunch of sore loser fans. When Sasha was winning, posters couldn't keep their mouths shut about her being over scored - were the judges blind?!

Now suddenly she can barely get 3rd place and now the judges are the font of all wisdom and can't be questioned by anyone?

That's rather convenient don't you think?

 

[Alex65]

I think you missed the main message in my first reply to you:
"It is very unprofessional of a skater or a coach to publicly label judges as harsh or unfair when doing interviews.
If they have actual concerns with proper evidence, instead of publicly whining and complaining, they should discuss the issue with people who are in charge of evaluating the situation and LET THOSE PEOPLE DECIDE if things were fair or unfair.
Skaters and coaches should keep their personal opinions to themselves. They are there to be judged BY the judges, they are not there to pass judgements ON the judges. If they are interested in evaluating the judges and bringing justice to skating, they should quit skating and apply for positions that will allow them to do that.
But in their current positions, due to the conflict of interest, it would be unethical to express their personal opinions."


Do all skaters believe that?
I believe some of those customs and border officers should work on their attitude. I think they are lazy and rude. But whenever I'm interacting with them I make sure I keep my opinions to myself. There are certain individuals who have the authority to freely express their opinions in front of those officers, but I'm not one of them.

If everyone is silent, then in the end it sometimes leads to: https://youtu.be/SRcrj-u9vpY?t=108
I would not want to see such moments of shame in FS.
Because people have eyes, and they are able to decide for themselves what is fair and what is not.

 

[anonymoose_au]

If everyone is silent, then in the end it sometimes leads to: https://youtu.be/SRcrj-u9vpY?t=108
I would not want to see such moments of shame in FS.
Because people have eyes, and they are able to decide for themselves what is fair and what is not.

I remember that! I was watching at home in Australia and I actually booed right along with the crowd. Alexei was totally robbed...I haven't seen a high bar routine as good as that since...

They did make some changes to the way things were scored after that didn't they?

I wonder how figure skating would go if they scored like gymnastics, that is, starting with the highest score a program is worth then deduct for mistakes.

 

[sinus]

Maybe things got twisted in translation? That's how the title of the interview is translated.
Alena Kostornaia: “I had a fear to get lower scores because of my transfer to Plushenko”

This translation is very cut and distorted, genuine text is here https://sport.business-gazeta.ru/news/259981
Actually she said she had no fears that her PCS will be lowered. But she was afraid of something because of social media. Her words was pretty much vague and inconsistent though. Then her word was taken out of context and was turned into clickbait.

 

[Anoosheh]

The problem there is, I don't think it's in the interest of those who oversee the judges to take those complaints on board. And perhaps coaches have done so before and got precisely nowhere. Judges have been doing shonky stuff for years and I find it impossible to believe that they haven't just ignored it, because they know no-one will stand up to them.

I also find it interesting that all the complaining about Sasha's scores is suddenly just a bunch of sore loser fans. When Sasha was winning, posters couldn't keep their mouths shut about her being over scored - were the judges blind?!

Now suddenly she can barely get 3rd place and now the judges are the font of all wisdom and can't be questioned by anyone?

That's rather convenient don't you think?

Sasha wasn't winning (against Anna and Aliona) . She has been consistently getting third places since last season.
I personally don't see any drastic changes to Sasha's result from last season to this season. She was the most underappreciated skater when she was with Eteri, this continues to be the case with Plushenko too.

The main thing that has changed here is people who were saying Sasha was overscored last season, have totally changed their narrative and are now claiming she's underscored.
I don't want to mention any specific names here, but among goldenskate users, the loudest Sasha's critics have magically become her most dedicated fans this season.

 

[[email protected]]

Sasha wasn't winning (against Anna and Aliona) . She has been consistently getting third places since last season.
I personally don't see any drastic changes to Sasha's result from last season to this season. She was the most underappreciated skater when she was with Eteri, this continues to be the case with Plushenko too.

The main thing that has changed here is people who were saying Sasha was overscored last season, have totally changed their narrative and are now claiming she's underscored.
I don't want to mention any specific names here, but among goldenskate users, the loudest Sasha's critics have magically become her most dedicated fans this season.

The same thing happened when Zhenya moved to Borser. I can see through these people and their true motivation.

 

[Alex65]

Sasha wasn't winning (against Anna and Aliona) . She has been consistently getting third places since last season.
I personally don't see any drastic changes to Sasha's result from last season to this season. She was the most underappreciated skater when she was with Eteri, this continues to be the case with Plushenko too.

The main thing that has changed here is people who were saying Sasha was overscored last season, have totally changed their narrative and are now claiming she's underscored.
I don't want to mention any specific names here, but among goldenskate users, the loudest Sasha's critics have magically become her most dedicated fans this season.

What does your post have to do with the topic of Plushenko's words? Can you explain? I do not understand. Maybe this: "Sasha was third last season, this year she is third again. Why be indignant?"

 

[Draculus]

I wonder how figure skating would go if they scored like gymnastics, that is, starting with the highest score a program is worth then deduct for mistakes.

Right now it is it. "Highest score" = BV*1.5, "mistake" - missing bullet point for +5 goe or actual mistake giving negative goe.

 

[Anoosheh]

What does your post have to do with the topic of Plushenko's words? Can you explain? I do not understand. Maybe this: "Sasha was third last season, this year she is third again. Why be indignant?"

I was responding to a comment ...?!
If you look at my post I have quoted the post I was responding to.

 

[mrrice]

Plushenko is sabotaging his own skaters.

I disagree. As a former Coach and Judge, I can tell you that you look at your scores a bit more closely if a coach is someone you respect. They may not respect Plushy but, He is a National, European, World, and Olympic Champion. He has earned respect from the entire skating community.

 

[anonymoose_au]

As a former Coach and Judge

I think you mentioned you were a dancer, what's judging like? I guess it's high pressure and you have to think quickly on your feet. Did you ever get to the end of a competition and think you scored someone unfairly? If so is there a way to remedy that? Or are all decisions final? I think I read once about judges sometimes hitting the 0 GOE button by mistake, in a close competition that could be huge! Imagine losing by the exact difference between 0 and +1.

 

[mrrice]

I think you mentioned you were a dancer, what's judging like? I guess it's high pressure and you have to think quickly on your feet. Did you ever get to the end of a competition and think you scored someone unfairly? If so is there a way to remedy that? Or are all decisions final? I think I read once about judges sometimes hitting the 0 GOE button by mistake, in a close competition that could be huge! Imagine losing by the exact difference between 0 and +1.

It can be quite stressful. It's actually fun during the early season because you only judge your area. The stress comes at Nationals when you have teams from all over the country. There have been several years when the top 2 teams come from California and Florida. Texas, Illinois, and New York always have strong groups and you hate to see any of them go home disappointed. It's like judging the final flight of skaters. You know that on any given day each skater could win the Championship. It's up to you to figure out who was the best by mere fractions in timing.

I'd like to hook a heart monitor to the judging panel during the final flight. They are just as stressed out as the skaters themselves.

 

[sinus]

When Plushenko lost to Yagudin at OG 2002 he blamed "Yagudin's psychic" who telepathically ordered him to fall. Now it's 'charged' judges. It's always not about him being not good enough as a skater or as a coach. It's always about ominous conspirators plotting against him

 

[BrunoA]

Plushenko is not horrible, he is what he is, but Russian media has become horrible, which glorifies and promotes a person who insults the judges with a thumbs down as it says at https://pro-essay-writer.com.
You may disagree with the ratings, but there is a civilized way to do this, go to the referee's office and find out why or write an appeal

 

[starlight97]

If everyone is silent, then in the end it sometimes leads to: https://youtu.be/SRcrj-u9vpY?t=108
I would not want to see such moments of shame in FS.
Because people have eyes, and they are able to decide for themselves what is fair and what is not.

Why was I 100% sure that I would click that link and Yuna's FS in Sochi would show up


Yes, coaches have the right to challenge the judges scores.
But it is done professionally through official inquiries, not by giving thumbs down or crying bribery. And the athlete themselves should never get involved in that.
Take gymnastics as an example. If I remember well, at the Olympics, for instance, Aly Raisman got a score that her coach didn't agree with and her getting a medal or not was at stake. He made an official challenge to that score while Aly stayed and waited in silence. The judges ended up changing her score.
While in FS the system is different, the principle stays the same.
I don't think he would have gotten far had he started to give them the thumbs down and chanting boo.

 

[kirauza343]

Why was I 100% sure that I would click that link and Yuna's FS in Sochi would show up


Yes, coaches have the right to challenge the judges scores.
But it is done professionally through official inquiries, not by giving thumbs down or crying bribery. And the athlete themselves should never get involved in that.
Take gymnastics as an example. If I remember well, at the Olympics, for instance, Aly Raisman got a score that her coach didn't agree with and her getting a medal or not was at stake. He made an official challenge to that score while Aly stayed and waited in silence. The judges ended up changing her score.
While in FS the system is different, the principle stays the same.
I don't think he would have gotten far had he started to give them the thumbs down and chanting boo.

Gymnastics isn’t the best comparison because there’s an inquiry system built in to the code that doesn’t have an equivalent in figure skating. If a skater or their coach has a question about their score and thinks there’s something off there isn’t anything they can do during competition. Gymnastics inquiries are also public while for figure skating y’all seem to expect that they need to do it in private.

Plushenko may not be going about this in the “proper” way but being polite or just accepting the way things are isn’t going to change anything (and there IS a problem with bias in the sport). If nothing else him openly challenging things is bringing more attention to the problem which means something might actually be done about it. Maybe not right now but nearer in the future than it would’ve been otherwise.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Why do figure skating fans compete so hard for the title of "most abused and victimized"? My grievances are worse than your grievances. No, MY grievances are the worst in the history of skating. Everybody is picking on me. No, ME!

The worst thing about this is that it actually tarnishes the skater they are fighting for in front of other people, through association.

So...what I'm learning from this thread is...if something's unfair and unjust then rather than fight to change it you should sit down, shut up and let it keep happening?

The only ones who benefit from that are the one's who get away with it. It's easy to shrug off if your favourite isn't the one getting screwed.

If judges are going to give ridiculous scores like a 0 for Sasha opening combo they should either have the guts to explain why clearly or admit their bias and work hard to overcome it.

It was just the one judge this time, but next time it might be more and if that's the case it will result in someone not getting a medal they deserve.

No, the lesson is, don’t get bitter — get better.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

So, basically a judge can be as obviously biased as Judge #6 at Nats and Sasha should just suck it up?

If complaining about something like that is poor sportsmanship...well call me John McEnroe because "You cannot be serious!"

Judges have the most important job in figure skating, determining who wins, if they can't take the time to be professional in their judgements the sport might as well pack it in now.

Firstly, one judge being obviously biased isn’t grounds for saying the sky is falling.

Trusova got 66 PCS at Rostelecom with 4 falls (compared to 67.42 for her cleaner and more difficult and better performed FS at Skate Canada 2019). She is hardly a victim of some homegrown fix, and indeed (like other Russian skaters) a beneficiary in some cases.