Ladies' Long Program

[emma]

Wow, EVERY skater had downgrades in LP in this ladies' competition! Is this a first under COP? Aren't they being just a little _too_ strict about it? So nobody was deemed competent enough in this competition to land all the triples that they planned? Wow.:scratch::scratch::scratch:

It might mean that they didn't execute at least one of their triples properly/clean. I kind of like this - everyone gets scrutinized, everyone gets dinged when they do something wrong.

My worry isn't with being deducted properly - i worry more about the expectations this generates and injury.

 

[Tinymavy15]

i am in shock that miki beat caroline with no triple triple in either program and sloppy skating. true caroline was not perfect, she looked REALLY nervous, but her triple triple was complete

 

[gio]

Emily Hughes = After all those sleepy programs this evening, finally some energy!! Great determination and charisma. Unfortunately not the best program, but it's early season. She is a happy skater.
I don't like the costume!

 

[enlight78]

Yeah well it's really difficult for me to tell on the tv screen...I could have sworn the loop was fully rotated though...

Caroline upper body is twisted so it may look fully rotated,but if you go by where the blade leaves the ice I think it obvious even in real time. Thout at least three of her jumps where underottate but five. She have really work on her speed and technique

 

[blue_idealist]

Mira

Wow, I'm amazed that Mira did so well. She has really improved a LOT since last year. I noticed that she's now wearing makeup, too. I guess her mother finally decided to allow it. =P It's amazing that she was right up there with Emily Hughes and ahead of Elene and Mai. Elene finished much ahead of her at worlds last year if I remember right.

 

[museksk8r]

I don't agree, the flutzing punishment is needed badly and I am happy that it is in place now. I hope that it will not be selective though.

I totally am in agreement. Just think had this judging system been in place at the 1998 Olympics and the 2002 Olympics how things would have turned out. Michelle would be the '98 gold medalist over Tara's cheats and flutzes and Irina or Michelle would likely be the '02 gold medalist over Sarah Hughes who would have been appropriately marked down in her SP for her cheats and flutz and likely would not have made the final group in the LP.

 

[feraina]

I don't agree, the flutzing punishment is needed badly and I am happy that it is in place now. I hope that it will not be selective though.

I think people are okay with the flutzing -- at least even the average TV audience can see a wrong edge take-off (though they don't know whether a jump should be on an inside or outside edge, unless told by the commentator, and even so they may not know what "inside" or "outside" means!).

But the downgrades! You can't see the reason for them sometimes even in slow-mo. Even the commentators, who are former olympic medalists, are saying "whistle-clean" at Caroline's SP 3/3 (the judges actually gave her decent GOE's, including 1 zero, and a couple of -1's, which you don't normally see when a jump is under-rotated, when the judges tend to all give -2's).

So Caroline pulled out a GP bronze medal with two ratified triples. *oggle* *oggle* That's gotta be a first too! At least it means that under COP, spins and spirals do get some credit now.

 

[oxade21]

i am in shock that miki beat caroline with no triple triple in either program and sloppy skating. true caroline was not perfect, she looked REALLY nervous, but her triple triple was complete

Look at the protocols, it is not just about 3-3, there is much more to judge.

 

[blue_idealist]

btw...

Btw was Mai always that big? I don't mean she's fat, but I thought I remembered her much smaller..

 

[carolinefan177]

I really hope Caroline isn't overly upset about this...she must have felt like she did at junior nationals in 2006...when almost all her triples were downgraded too. After last year, I thought she had fixed the rotation problem, but apparently, she didn't. I hope she doesn't injure herself trying to fix everything before Cup of China.

 

[oxade21]

I think people are okay with the flutzing -- at least even the average TV audience can see a wrong edge take-off (though they don't know whether a jump should be on an inside or outside edge, unless told by the commentator, and even so they may not know what "inside" or "outside" means!).

As some in the above post mentioned, great skaters who actually bother to train hard to deliver clean and right jumps should be justly rewarded for their hard work. And people who do not should be punished. It could be downgrades on flutzing or DOBLED GOE on the right ones. Obviosly ISU is trying the former one.

 

[Andalusia]

http://www.isufs.org/results/gpusa07/sa07_Ladies_FS_Scores.pdf

Caroline's spirals only got lvl1? Must not be holding it long enough.

Thanks, carolinefan! Amazing that she only got a lvl 1 for the spiral sequence. I could've sworn she held the positions long enough.

And how does one tell if jumps have been downgraded to doubles? Through the GOE?

 

[gio]

Caroline Zhang = Nice program, but the jumps have to be fixed. Great spirals and spins. Elegant movements and carriage. The music is sleepy, but she is amazing. She is similiar to the young Michelle Kwan. She has a great presence on the ice. The commentator is saying that she is even better than the young Michelle Kwan in presence, charisma, elegance and carriage.

 

[enlight78]

Thanks, carolinefan! Amazing that she only got a lvl 1 for the spiral sequence. I could've sworn she held the positions long enough.

And how does one tell if jumps have been downgraded to doubles? Through the GOE?

If a jump is downgraded there will be a < symbol beside it

 

[emma]

Caroline Zhang = Nice program, but the jumps have to be fixed. Great spirals and spins. Elegant movements and carriage. The music is sleepy, but she is amazing. She is similiar to the young Michelle Kwan. She has a great presence on the ice. The commentator is saying that she is even better than the young Michelle Kwan in presence, charisma, elegance and carriage.

She definately has the 'it' factor - her presence/charisma is phenomenal as is her carriage and elegance. She reminds me of Michelle in that way - with a better layback but with slower/less powerful stroking. She is also the first woman in a long time (basically since Michelle) to make me get all teary eyed - so she has the spontaneous make you cry talent that Michelle too had for me. I look forward to watching more of her as the season unfolds.

 

[feraina]

As some in the above post mentioned, great skaters who actually bother to train hard to deliver clean and right jumps should be justly rewarded for their hard work.

I totally agree. But it should also be "rational" -- such that when people see the final placements, while they may not understand or agree with the actual numbers, they can at least more or less agree with the placements in most situations. Otherwise, how can this sport possibly attract TV viewers?

I'm not saying I definitely disagree with the final placements in this competition (though I'm unsure Miki should beat Caroline, or Emily should beat Mira), but that was partly due to the fact that the performances were different enough in quality on the whole, that just how many jumps got downgraded or the "e" deduction didn't really matter so much in terms of placement. What if it was a tight competition like the last WC? Then it could really matter a lot.

We haven't seen how Mao or Yu-na will fare under this new technical martial era yet. Before people hand them the WC gold & silver on a plate, let's first see how those do. My first thought is that Mao's 3A and 2A/3T are both in danger.

 

[krenseby]

I totally am in agreement. Just think had this judging system been in place at the 1998 Olympics and the 2002 Olympics how things would have turned out. Michelle would be the '98 gold medalist over Tara's cheats and flutzes and Irina or Michelle would likely be the '02 gold medalist over Sarah Hughes who would have been appropriately marked down in her SP for her cheats and flutz and likely would not have made the final group in the LP.

museksk8r, can I print out your comment in a large font and hang it on a wall in my house ?

 

[gio]

Miki Ando = She is not in good shape. Not sure about Carmen. She has to work on it. The program was mediocre, but not bad.

 

[carolinefan177]

After seeing the judges had out es and <s like mad, I think Yu-Na is going to be a very happy camper

 

[museksk8r]

museksk8r, can I print out your comment in a large font and hang it on a wall in my house ?

Yes, please, be my guest! Haha. If only we could turn back time, right?