Mixed Reviews on Zhang's Debut

[nubka]

There is a tradition of Ice Princesses in the USA, even though I wouldn't really put Michelle Kwan in that category. She was too special. I would put her in a category of her own.

Oh please, pass the barf-bag, quick!!

 

[gio]

:scratch: hwell: :indiff:

 

[Mathman]

One thing about Caroline's performance, she gave the fans something enjoyable to watch.

I don't know if it's the CoP or what, but we need some more Caroline Zhangs just to give the TV audience some reason to turn on their sets.

 

[Mathman]

I'd like to see her improve.But the current hype is turning me off her almost as much as I'm turned off of Asada and for the same reason (over eager fans trying for a coronation or lifetime achievement award before the skater has earned it).

No, it's not fair to the skater but there you have it.

ITA. I felt that way about Kwan way back when...

I think the reason that Michelle Kwan was pushed to the fore at age 14 was that U.S. figure skating was at a momentary low ebb with the passing of the Kristi-Nancy-Tonya group. So Michelle (the World Junior Champion at 14, just like Caroline) was heavily promoted.

Prematurely? Yes. It wasn't until the next year, when Michelle was 15, that she "earned it" by winning the first of her five Senior World Championships.

 

[kyla2]

Caroline Zhang

Zhang is the real deal and the future of American figure skating. She is young and very motivated. I see another Michelle Kwan here in the making. I haven't watched figure skating in a while. Soemtimes when you take a break from it and come back, you see it from a fresh perspective. This kid has a ton of talent, technically and artistically, and years to grow. Meissner is competent and mentally tough, but she does not have the same level of talent.

 

[demarinis5]

Zhang is the real deal and the future of American figure skating. She is young and very motivated. I see another Michelle Kwan here in the making. I haven't watched figure skating in a while. Soemtimes when you take a break from it and come back, you see it from a fresh perspective. This kid has a ton of talent, technically and artistically, and years to grow. Meissner is competent and mentally tough, but she does not have the same level of talent.

ITA. I was impressed by Caroline's SP & LP and imo she outclassed the other ladies at SA. Yes she needs improvement, but darn what a pleasure it was to see someone actually skate a program with connecting moves and transitions that did not look like connecting the dots. She has won me over as a fan and if that is interpreted as hype too bad. I look forward to following her skating career.

 

[dlkksk8fan]

Caroline was lovely and her skate was the most enjoyable to watch, but she does need to work on some things (her kick before the jump really bothers me). She has lots of time.

I agree. I'm still not sold on her being so wonderful (cute yes). I hope she doesn't burn out before her time.

 

[zhang fan]

So many of you all like to list Carolines faults and areas needing to be improved. Agreed, but I haven't seen many skater lately, certainly none today, without more areas needing improvement.
Not too much discussion regarding the aspects of her skating that can't be matched. Her charisma, passion, theatrics, beauty. After all, this is a spectator sport and this is the area that needs to grow if we are to keep the public interested. It's not gymnastics. Skating is unique in these areas which is why it has grown more popular relative to the growth of ballet or gymnastics.
IMO judges need to exersize their ability to reward skaters who you simply can't take your eyes off. I'll never forget Janet Lynn, couldn't take my eyes off her.

Can't take my eyes off Caroline Zhang.

 

[bekalc]

So many of you all like to list Carolines faults and areas needing to be improved. Agreed, but I haven't seen many skater lately, certainly none today, without more areas needing improvement.
Not too much discussion regarding the aspects of her skating that can't be matched. Her charisma, passion, theatrics, beauty. After all, this is a spectator sport and this is the area that needs to grow if we are to keep the public interested. It's not gymnastics. Skating is unique in these areas which is why it has grown more popular relative to the growth of ballet or gymnastics.
IMO judges need to exersize their ability to reward skaters who you simply can't take your eyes off. I'll never forget Janet Lynn, couldn't take my eyes off her.

Can't take my eyes off Caroline Zhang.

Caroline is pretty to watch, but I disagree with you that she's not rewarded for it.

Still, I think the point is we want someone who is not only pretty to watch, but also has excellent technique. Take Yu-na Kim for example, while her spiral position needs some work, all around I enjoy watching Yu-na more than Zhang. Yu-na connects with the music better. And Yu-na also has much better technique.

 

[Mathman]

...Can't take my eyes off Caroline Zhang.

This post says it all.

Edited to respond to Bekalk's post: Well, no, obviously Caroline is not in the class of Yu-na Kim yet. But still -- "can't take my eyes off her."

 

[bekalc]

This post says it all.

Edited to respond to Bekalk's post: Well, no, obviously Caroline is not in the class of Yu-na Kim yet. But still -- "can't take my eyes off her."

I must admit that I did think Zhang was lovely.....I love her spirals and her spins are to die for.

 

[R.D.]

Zhang has tremendous potential. I didn't expect her to be perfect out here, but it's a good start...plus it's the beginning of the season. I expect both Ando and Meissner to be much better later on.

 

[feraina]

I think it's incredible that Zhang got almost 100 in the LP with only two clean triples! This has got to be a record??

I wonder, theoretically speaking, how would she do if she had planned all those downgraded triples as doubles to begin with? She'd probably get higher GOE's on all of them. Maybe her PCS will suffer a bit, but by how much?

She was so nervous all through that LP, up until the last couple of spins. I felt so bad for her. I felt like she barely dared to breathe through that performance. When she was done, she was relieved, but I think she also felt like it wasn't a great performance. When she saw her TES, she seemed surprised/disappointed that it was even lower than she expected.

Then when she was interviewed afterwards, and the interviewer was gushing about her and asking how it felt to get a medal in her first GP, I felt like she didn't feel like she had anything to be cheerful about at all, and was just trying to keep a pleasant smile for the camera. So what if there were 2 standing O's, I felt her thinking, the judges didn't seem to care for it at all... Thank God she knew better than to blurt that out on TV live.

 

[krenseby]

I think it's incredible that Zhang got almost 100 in the LP with only two clean triples! This has got to be a record??

I wonder, theoretically speaking, how would she do if she had planned all those downgraded triples as doubles to begin with? She'd probably get higher GOE's on all of them. Maybe her PCS will suffer a bit, but by how much?

She was so nervous all through that LP, up until the last couple of spins. I felt so bad for her. I felt like she barely dared to breathe through that performance. When she was done, she was relieved, but I think she also felt like it wasn't a great performance. When she saw her TES, she seemed surprised/disappointed that it was even lower than she expected.

Then when she was interviewed afterwards, and the interviewer was gushing about her and asking how it felt to get a medal in her first GP, I felt like she didn't feel like she had anything to be cheerful about at all, and was just trying to keep a pleasant smile for the camera. So what if there were 2 standing O's, I felt her thinking, the judges didn't seem to care for it at all... Thank God she knew better than to blurt that out on TV live.

Btw, can someone help me figure out what the problems with Zhang's jumps war. I need to be more attentive and have a sharper eye, but those of you who saw the defects in the downgraded jumps, please explain them!

 

[gio]

Then when she was interviewed afterwards, and the interviewer was gushing about her and asking how it felt to get a medal in her first GP, I felt like she didn't feel like she had anything to be cheerful about at all, and was just trying to keep a pleasant smile for the camera. So what if there were 2 standing O's, I felt her thinking, the judges didn't seem to care for it at all... Thank God she knew better than to blurt that out on TV live.

Come on, she said she was very happy with the bronze, because she wanted to be in the TOP6. She didn't expect to beat the two World Champions. She is still behind them.
,
The judges did their work. It's obvious that the jumps were cheated (maybe 5 is an exageration, but at least 3 were) and the lutzes flutzed. This is a competition not a girls' game. So, because she received a standing O, she should be placed in first place??? So, let the public judge...

I mean, I don't want to seem harsh with her. She is 14 years old. In two years she really could:
-fix the bad jump technique in toe jumps
-fix the lutz
-learn the 3sal
-learn the 3/3
-speed up
-jump higher or in distance
-face language

After this she can reach the Kween level! And it is possible!!!

 

[Andalusia]

Btw, can someone help me figure out what the problems with Zhang's jumps war. I need to be more attentive and have a sharper eye, but those of you who saw the defects in the downgraded jumps, please explain them!

I would appreciate an explanation, too. I've rewatched the performance in high-def, and I can't see how some of the jumps were downgraded. The triple loop and the last triple lutz looked fully rotated to me. The last triple flip was a real beauty; she really attacked that jump and it had great coverage - it's no wonder that was the only jump she got positive GOEs for. As for the rest...maybe she jumped so low that the technical specialist decided not to give her the benefit of the doubt?

 

[layman]

Caroline Zhang's jumps should not have been downgraded at all. When I watched them in slow-motion they all (with the exception of the salchow she fell on) fell within the definition of a "clean" jump (less than a quarter turn cheat).

I don't know what the judges were looking at but Caroline's jumps were cleaner than Miki's, Kimmie's, or anyone else's in the competition except Mira Leung. I think this was an attempt by the judges to sandbag Caroline Zhang and prevent her from outshining the older ladies (who were all far less trained and competition ready than Caroline).

 

[gio]

Caroline Zhang's jumps should not have been downgraded at all. When I watched them in slow-motion they all (with the exception of the salchow she fell on) fell within the definition of a "clean" jump (less than a quarter turn cheat).

I don't know what the judges were looking at but Caroline's jumps were cleaner than Miki's, Kimmie's, or anyone else's in the competition except Mira Leung. I think this was an attempt by the judges to sandbag Caroline Zhang and prevent her from outshining the older ladies (who were all far less trained and competition ready than Caroline).

That is not true!!! Miki and Kimmie jumps were much much better than Zhang in quality and technique.
3 jumps out of 5 were cheated. The other 2 were really low that they didn't even seem triples.

 

[feraina]

Come on, she said she was very happy with the bronze, because she wanted to be in the TOP6. She didn't expect to beat the two World Champions. She is still behind them.

The judges did their work. It's obvious that the jumps were cheated (maybe 5 is an exageration, but at least 3 were) and the lutzes flutzed. This is a competition not a girls' game. So, because she received a standing O, she should be placed in first place???

I don't think she was disappointed with the final placement, I think she was disappoint with _that_ performance, and _that_ score. It must've felt like a slap in the face when she was getting _much_ better scores last year with easier programs. I think it was a combination of being nervous and skating slower than usual, thus losing out on the PCS, and not fully rotating the 3/3 or the 3S, and also not getting much height/flow out of the other jumps, AND the technical controllers being a bit too draconian.

The other 2 were really low that they didn't even seem triples.

That's a valid criticism, and that's already addressed in the GOE score. There's no reason to punish her additionally for the lack of height. Since when is under-rotation defined to include the height of a jump? Two extra downgrades is a big deal -- she could've beaten Miki for the silver without them. Plus, it would've made more sense to both the skater, coach, and the spectators.

 

[zhang fan]

I agree, Kimmies toe in the triple/triple was equally as under as Carolines, maybe more. If you could look at the ice up close, you'd see the others are all clean.

They need to place a camera angle at ground level. They when a skater completes the rotation so close to the ice it would be easier to identify.