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I would suggest, even BEFORE that!
I can only imagine how hard it must be, to face that kind of pressure at, say, 13-14 years old.
2020-21 US Women's Figure Skating
- Thread starter AshWagsFan
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I can only imagine how hard it must be, to face that kind of pressure at, say, 13-14 years old.
3 spots in 2006. Lost them in 2008 I believe with the Meissner/BeBe Liang/Wagner team. Stayed that way until 2013 when the team of Wagner and Gold got them back in just in time for Sochi 2014. Maintained through 2018 when Nagasu/Tennell/Chen were sent. Must have been lost again after that.
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- Feb 17, 2010
I find the choice of Karen over Amber very controversial. It's one thing to leave home a skater in favor of someone like Ashley in 2014, when she was winning national titles and GP events while finishing in the top 5 a few times at the previous Worlds. Karen is someone who usually finishes around 6th to 8th place in GP events and is no threat for a top 5 finish at Worlds. In the last two seasons, their records are pretty similar so I'm not sure what the basis is for selecting Karen. Nationals has become a pretty meaningless event for Worlds/Olympics selection, and this will make it nearly impossible for Amber to be on the Olympic contenders short-list.I still really wish Amber was sent though, just purely for the experience of it all (and I think she’s not as prone to unders—but that’s partially because internationally she pops
—she also at least tries a 3-3 on both programs). Her reputation internationally isn’t as big as Karen’s which would affect the PCS score, even though I think they are actually both pretty equal in PCS (as for both it is sometimes program/jump dependent). I just wish Amber would have had the opportunity to build that “body of work” the US likes to depend on so much. Nevertheless, I hope Bradie and Karen do well (even though I think worlds should be cancelled)!
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I so agree. I've mentioned it on the other threads, but you stated it so well. My feeling is -- their recent results and scoring potential are ABOUT the same, except that Amber has the possibility of the 3A and 3-3's, whereas Karen doesn't have either. And it's doubtful Karen's UR problem is going to magically disappear. I guess I feel it's pretty probable Karen will have around a 10th place finish, maybe even lower. That may be the same for Amber, BUT the jumps she hits will be likely rotated, and if she lands a 3A -- then she has a chance of placing a few places higher than 10th. Unlikely, perhaps, but at least the potential is there, even if she is viewed as not having a lot of international cred/reputation (Karen's international rep is as an URer -- that's likely to be a liability, not a positive).
Mostly, though, since it is likely they would have similar placings, then reward Amber for finishing higher at nationals, the primary qualifying comp. Amber won her silver on the ice, and there wasn't a persuasive (imo, of course) reason to pick anyone else over her for the Worlds team.
Even if it’s happened before, it will only intensify. We saw this play out with Gracie Gold in the early 2010s. I remember...the desperation from the MSM to turn her into America’s ice princess got so bad that Gold herself started believing it and acting it...
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- Feb 17, 2010
Agreed. I was really surprised when I read the choice, especially given their similar results in the last two seasons.
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- Jul 9, 2014
Is 4CC happening this year? If so, I would imagine they will send Amber there. Does she have any more opportunities to compete?
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No, it was canceled... quite a while ago, actually, because it was supposed to be in Australia, and that just... doesn't work right now.
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So, her season is over, right?
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- Nov 13, 2012
Most likely. I mean, no idea if they'll be able to send skaters to any of the senior b's scheduled for this spring, provided they happen, so... probably.
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FWIW: As of now, 2021 World Team Trophy still is on the ISU calendar for mid-April in Osaka.
If/if/if/if(????) it really can be held .... and if the U.S. sends a team, then I hope that USFS would assign Amber as one of its two ladies.
As others have said, Alysa already has experienced quite a media circus -- including an appearance on the Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon.
(Anecdotally: Gracie did not appear on the Tonight Show until after she made the 2014 Olympic team. The host then was Leno.)
Plus my two cents are that I believe that Alysa has a very different sense of self than Gracie had in 2012-14.
Just my opinion.
(And I am not criticizing either skater.
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- Mar 8, 2015
I 100% agree! It would’ve nice to see Amber at worlds if it were to happen! I just don’t get the rationale for choosing Karen. If they were choosing over “body of work” they would’ve chosen Mariah (I’m not a fan of her skating at all, but she has the second best body of work to Bradie). If they were choosing based on highest point potential, they would’ve chosen Amber because she has 3-3s and a 3A (in practice). Karen hasn’t done very well for the past few years and she’s still not really rotating the harder jumps now (other than the four continents short program, I can’t remember the last clean 3-3 from her). I guess we will see how this decision ends up affecting spots.
Wow, I did not hear about the Tonight Show appearance. I remember when Gold was on there and yes, I think it was shortly after she was named. Wagner also hit the media circuit for a few weeks after Sochi IIRC.
I guess I'm REALLY out of the loop then....
ice coverage said:
I got that impression on Ladies Free Night as well. I suppose we shall see for sure once she goes full senior. There may be a legit case to be at least *somewhat* optimistic.
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- Feb 17, 2010
Based on the results from the last two years and considering the importance of the Nationals result (or has been in the past), amongst Karen, Amber, and Mariah, I'd have Karen as the third pick of those. I don't think potential should be factored in, but I don't think it needs to be for Amber to be picked ahead of Karen based on the Nationals result and otherwise close results in minor events in the last two years. Aside from Nationals, Karen's body of work isn't close at all to Mariah's. It's just strange that the Nationals result was used to eliminate Mariah from the running for Worlds spot #2, whereas the body of work (presumably) was used to eliminate Amber from the running.
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- Mar 8, 2015
It’s definitely interesting
Karen also is the lowest in world standings among the three. I know you can’t quite necessarily use that since she didn’t compete during in 18-19 season, but her results (aside from domestic events) since then haven’t been very good. I think scoring potential shouldn’t necessarily be a huge factor in deciding, but I think it should play a slight role.
I actually agree with choosing Karen ahead of Amber. I love Amber. I really do. But Karen does have more potential and has a more body of work historically. That said, it will be a big challenge for the US to get that 3rd spot for Olympics. They need both Bradie and Karen to be super clean and that might not even be enough. Sorry to say though, I don't think Amber would have made those odds better...
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- Feb 17, 2010
Karen has had a more impressive career, but the committee is only supposed look at the past few seasons. I'm not sure how the decision process worked, but if the 3rd spot was a deciding factor, on what basis do you choose Karen over Mariah? From my perspective, sending Amber at least gives her the experience at Worlds that she might be able to build on next season, because I don't think either she or Karen can place high enough to secure three spots anyway. This decision has really left me scratching my head.
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- Dec 5, 2015
Me, too. Amber has more potential for future success. So, why not give her an opportunity to get experience she needs to reach her potential? Last year, with both Bradie and Mariah skating well and all the Japanese ladies not named Rika struggling the US had a real chance for 3 spots. This year the situation isn't the same, the US isn't likely to get three spots regardless of who they send.
I think that Karen is a beautiful lyrical skater who reminds coaches and officials of the type of skating they love from 20/30 years ago.( Her LP is beautiful) In addition, her coach has influence in the federation. So, she gets treated favorably Honestly in 2018, I thought Karen was overscored at nationals in comparison to both Ashley and Mariah. TES wise Mariah was definitely the strongest of the three at that nationals. Ashley had the best reputation and highest PCS internationally. But, the fed instead gave Karen who was struggling TES wise as much as Ashley, and whose international PCS scores were not particularly impressive, high PCS and GOE which ensured her victory over Mariah who was a better jumper at the time. I didn't matter then in terms of placements, none of the US ladies were going to score particularly high at the Olympics, but it did reveal who the federation favored.I would say the same is true now.
Anyway, I think there is a 60/40 chance that World's will get cancelled and it probably should be given the COVID situation and how many skaters haven't been able to train enough due to restrictions. So, the whole discussion is probably unimportant anyway.
I get what you're saying, and I agree, and of course I would have preferred Mariah who is my fave US skater. But she finished too low, so maybe the US Fed thought it would be more controversial to choose her?
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- Feb 17, 2010
Exactly. I don't think the body of work policy was designed to just allow the federation send their preferred skaters to big events. I get sending Ashley to the Olympics, since she she and Gracie were the top two Americans by a wide margin. I get sending Jason over some of the other guys since Brown can earn a solid placement with just triples to help the US keep three spots. Karen isn't the most objectively fair choice, nor is she the most likely to be the highest scorer internationally.
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