Men's Short Program

[Ximena]

Yeah, but Joubert is still a world champ. If necessary, he'll do 3 quads in the long. I see he's about to have a second successful season in a row. The guy is possessed. I'm on Daisuke's side in this, but I'm realistic too.

But that's just the point, he has the pressure that he is now defenfing all his titles. Is he the GPF champion as well? I'm in Daisuke's side as well, but I do hope Joubert had worked on his nerves a little because Worlds 2005 and Olys showed that he may not deal well with pressure or outside factors.

As for the points, that three quad program still was less than Takahashi's best FS that I think he did one quad, maybe it was quadless, I don't remember anymore.

 

[mizu_iro]

But that's just the point, he has the pressure that he is now defenfing all his titles. Is he the GPF champion as well? I'm in Daisuke's side as well, but I do hope Joubert had worked on his nerves a little because Worlds 2005 and Olys showed that he may not deal well with pressure or outside factors.

As for the points, that three quad program still was less than Takahashi's best FS that I think he did one quad, maybe it was quadless, I don't remember anymore.

Daisuke's program at NHK last year had a quad and 8 triples.

 

[museksk8r]

Lambiel and Takahashi at their bests are capable of defeating Joubert. They definitely have the edge in PCS.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Lambiel and Takahashi at their bests are capable of defeating Joubert. They definitely have the edge in PCS.

I agree, but how often do either of those guys do a clean program? Joubert's PCS are much too high as it is, and were again tonight. Good skate though.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Well Daisuke's best FS is higher than Joubert's.

Lambiel got a 160+ for his free skate at Worlds with 3 big mistakes. He could easily get over 170 if he went clean I bet, even with only 2 quads. Takahashi could score even higher then his PB with a 2nd quad too.

 

[chuckm]

I have to say that SC Men was a veritable splatfest. I thought several of the men were scored way too high, especially Buttle and Van Der Perren.

When Buttle is good, he's very, very good, but tonight he was sloppy. Every jump was wonky, he had a messy fall, he had stumbles for no reason, and he didn't seem to relate to his music. And he has GOT to ditch the costume. Yikes!

 

[slutskayafan21]

I have to say that SC Men was a veritable splatfest. I thought several of the men were scored way too high, especially Buttle and Van Der Perren.

When Buttle is good, he's very, very good, but tonight he was sloppy. Every jump was wonky, he had a messy fall, he had stumbles for no reason, and he didn't seem to relate to his music. And he has GOT to ditch the costume. Yikes!

I honestly think it is the end for Buttle as a top contender at the World level. Joubert, Takashashi, Lambiel, Lysacek, are all pretty far ahead of him now IMO. His PCS is now getting easily beaten by those first 3 and matched sometimes by Lysacek even. His jumping has peaked, he will never be able to do a quad, and his other jumps are iffy.

 

[emma]

I have to say that SC Men was a veritable splatfest. I thought several of the men were scored way too high, especially Buttle and Van Der Perren.

When Buttle is good, he's very, very good, but tonight he was sloppy. Every jump was wonky, he had a messy fall, he had stumbles for no reason, and he didn't seem to relate to his music. And he has GOT to ditch the costume. Yikes!

i like the costume, although the red glove made me think of Camile, and I did think his footwork was really good, as was choreo.....but yeah, definitely not clean. But, having said that, he seemed diffent than many othes to me, like a 'man among boys' - with Joubert in a league of his own in that respect - BUT i'm biased, as I love buttle, so maybe i'm seeing what I want to see.

 

[museksk8r]

I honestly think it is the end for Buttle as a top contender at the World level. Joubert, Takashashi, Lambiel, Lysacek, are all pretty far ahead of him now IMO. His PCS is now getting easily beaten by those first 3 and matched sometimes by Lysacek even. His jumping has peaked, he will never be able to do a quad, and his other jumps are iffy.

Yeah, it's sad for Buttle. I really like him, but he's never been a dependable jumper. Even when he won his World silver in 2005, he had 2 tumbles in his FS. If he ever reached the level of calmness with the jumps that Brian has, he would be incredible.

 

[emma]

I honestly think it is the end for Buttle as a top contender at the World level. Joubert, Takashashi, Lambiel, Lysacek, are all pretty far ahead of him now IMO. His PCS is now getting easily beaten by those first 3 and matched sometimes by Lysacek even. His jumping has peaked, he will never be able to do a quad, and his other jumps are iffy.

Well, this might be true as the competition among men is simply intense....unfortunately, I worry about Weir too in this category. And, have no idea where Oda will fit into the mix once he returns. Yet, it is still too early in the season to tell....all I know is that there are (and have been for a few years) so many amazing men, I just love these competitions!!!!

 

[Wrlmy]

But that's just the point, he has the pressure that he is now defenfing all his titles. Is he the GPF champion as well? I'm in Daisuke's side as well, but I do hope Joubert had worked on his nerves a little because Worlds 2005 and Olys showed that he may not deal well with pressure or outside factors.

As for the points, that three quad program still was less than Takahashi's best FS that I think he did one quad, maybe it was quadless, I don't remember anymore.

Well, that was two years ago, and Joubert did a fantastic job dealing with pressure since the last season. Of course, we will have to wait and see how he does in LP. And, as much as Dakahashi's skate was fabulous at NHK last year, I'm sorry to say scores in general were much inflated at that event. I have a rather unfortunate suspision that Mao and Dakahashi might never be able to beat their scores at that event unless they skate perfect programs at NHK again. Joubert improved a lot in non jumping elements in less than a year, and his jumps are still very steady. So let's just wait and see.

 

[museksk8r]

Lambiel and Joubert are the only 2 men who have made the Worlds podium in consecutive years the last 2 seasons, so they definitely know what it takes to get to and maintain at the top of mens' skating. They are certainly in the picture for 2010, granted they both stay healthy.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Well, this might be true as the competition among men is simply intense....unfortunately, I worry about Weir too in this category. And, have no idea where Oda will fit into the mix once he returns. Yet, it is still too early in the season to tell....all I know is that there are (and have been for a few years) so many amazing men, I just love these competitions!!!!

I agree the field is amazing. However this is how I see it probably breaking down this year:

Top contenders- Lambiel, Takahashi, Joubert
Next Challengers- Verner, Oda, Lysacek, Weir
Long shots- Buttle, Chan

I agree the field is incredible and very deep.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Yeah, it's sad for Buttle. I really like him, but he's never been a dependable jumper. Even when he won his World silver in 2005, he had 2 tumbles in his FS. If he ever reached the level of calmness with the jumps that Brian has, he would be incredible.

It is pretty hard to master jumps you have never remotedly got a handle on before (eg-the quad) and solidfy jumps that have always been iffy for you (eg-triple axel) at the age Buttle is now. I agree if he had the calmness in executing jumps like that of Joubert he would be amazing but that just isnt going to happen at this point in his career.

 

[Tonichelle]

if his skating is as good as everyone says I just might jump on the Joubert bandwagon this year...

did Kurt choreograph the LP too?

 

[museksk8r]

I would think Buttle has a better chance than Weir based on the past 2 seasons of international competition, not to mention how Johnny completely fell apart at Nationals last season (4th in the LP). Chan is the brightest star among the younger guys . . . he's a dream to watch!

Buttle's resume:
'07 Worlds - 6th
'06 Worlds - 6th
'06 Olympics - 3rd
'05 Worlds - 2nd

Weir's resume:
'07 Worlds - 8th
'06 Worlds - 7th
'06 Olympics - 5th
'05 Worlds - 4th

 

[slutskayafan21]

I would think Buttle has a better chance than Weir based on the past 2 seasons of international competition, not to mention how Johnny completely fell apart at Nationals last season (4th in the LP). Chan is the brightest star among the younger guys . . . he's a dream to watch!

The reason I put Weir above Buttle is he is younger, so more opportunity to fix what needs to be fixed and improve. Also however he does not have trouble with jumping technique like Buttle does, he lands all the jumps beautifully in practice sometimes even the quad, but cant bring it all out in competition and do it maxing out COP. Buttle has problems with jumps even in practice, and has problems with jump technique on the harder jumps.

 

[lutzskate]

When Buttle is good, he's very, very good, but tonight ... he didn't seem to relate to his music.

????? What!! ???? I agree with you that he was sloppy, but saying that Buttle doesn't relate to his music is like saying that Picasso doesn't know how to paint!!!

 

[Hsuhs]

But that's just the point, he has the pressure that he is now defenfing all his titles. Is he the GPF champion as well? I'm in Daisuke's side as well, but I do hope Joubert had worked on his nerves a little because Worlds 2005 and Olys showed that he may not deal well with pressure or outside factors.

Joubert won everything last season, proving he can deal with the pressure. But I believe in Daisuke, I think he has a chance. If only he peaks when it counts.

When it comes to Johnny, I don't know what to think. I hope this season will go better for him. But then I saw his new SP.... I don't know what to think when I'm in love with the skater's skating but don't like his programs. It's all very ambiguous and frustrating to me. I'm now anxiously awaiting the LP Denis has choreographed for him. Will Johnny throw a quad in it? I certainly hope so. I think at this point he has nothing to lose.

 

[slutskayafan21]

Joubert isnt unbeatable. Last year at Worlds he was only 3rd in the LP and won because of his lead after the short. He did not do the 2nd quad though, if he did he would have been almost tied with Takahashi in the long for the win, but that was with Takahashi having only 1 quad and a hand down on it. Lambiel managed a huge score even with 3 big mistakes, had it not been even the silly last 2 mistakes on a triple-triple combination he would have won the long program easily over both of them, even with Joubert doing the 2nd quad. Every time Joubert does 3 quads he does not max out his other jumping passes, that might be a mistake or he might find it physically draining.