2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Vilord]

I don't think I've even seen her do 4T-3T much less adding it to a new quad. Learning 4S freed her from doing a 4T-2T combo. My layout would be 3A 4S 4T 3Lz-3T // 3Lz-Eu-3S 3F-3T 3Lo.

The reason youve never seen it is because with her old layout she was not able to do that if she wanted a 3Lz+3T combo in the 2nd half. (number of jumps allowed to be repeadted rule). There have been several practice clips of her doing 4T+3T not to forget the insane quads combos Kamilla, Sasha and Anna delivered on the channel 1 jump competition.

I think any of these skaters could tag a +3T to essentially any jump that they land with good glide.

 

[Scott512]

Where are you getting that the quadsters "almost always fall in the free skate from doing quads" because by my recollection this season Shcherbakova hasn't fallen on a quad - the worst she's done was a hand down at the Channel cup, last year she fell on 1 quad at the GPF and 1 at Europeans. Valieva this year has only fallen on 1 quad (and a messy landing on another) at her first cup event, last season she fell on 1 at JGP Russia. Trusova has fallen on more quads yes, but for the most part she's landing more than she's falling on in each competition, excluding GP Russia this year. And even if they fall on the quads, they are generally still scoring higher than clean Zagitova unless they have a complete meltdown, which only 1 of the 3 quadsters is susceptible of doing.

A hand down is a fall even though it's not a fall on your arse fall.

Anya was awesome at rusnats. So were KV and Sasha.

Kamila never skated a free skates with quads cleanly until Rusnats.

It's obviously very difficult to skate the free skate with multiple quads and do it cleanly.

But the bigger point is about Alina. Like I said yesterday if she got motivated she could compete with everyone because I see her scoring 230 again. Including the quadsters.
It doesn't mean she would beat them but if you're scoring 230 points or more you are in contention for the podium at every event.

I hope Alina comes back next season with the eye of the Tigress! But I have my doubts she will.

 

[starlight97]

But the bigger point is about Alina. Like I said yesterday if she got motivated she could compete with everyone because I see her scoring 230 again. Including the quadsters.
It doesn't mean she would beat them but if you're scoring 230 points or more you are in contention for the podium at every event.

I hope Alina comes back next season with the eye of the Tigress! But I have my doubts she will.

Is this a typo and you mean Alena, as in Kostornaya, and not Alina?

Cause if you mean Alina Zagitova indeed idk what to say, I can't believe there's still people on here seriously debating a comeback by her... isn't it brighter than bright as day even to the late late bloomers by now, that Zagitova is retired, while on paper saying whatever it needs to say so she and the Fed can keep making that cash (that she deserves)?

 

[Shayuki]

As I understand it most skaters struggle with 3Lo+3T its apparently something about the 3Lo that makes +3T combos difficult which is why we allmost never see them. This was the motivation for not putting the +3T here.

On the other hand, I'd say that skaters tend to struggle with quads a bit more than with 3Lo or 3Lz. If I was doing the layout myself I would have both of the Lutz jumps with a combo.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Saw a few posts about Valieva’s jump layout, and I think I’ll make things interesting. I tried to guess Rika Kihira’s best layout strategy and was somewhat successful, so I’ll try again:

4S
3A
4T+3T
4T
3F+3Lox
3Lz+1Lo+3Sx
3Lzx

This is obviously really challenging so I do not necessarily EXPECT it from her so soon, but I think this could be a winning layout. She can do the loop combinations, so why not include them in the program?

 

[Scott512]

Is this a typo and you mean Alena, as in Kostornaya, and not Alina?

Cause if you mean Alina Zagitova indeed idk what to say, I can't believe there's still people on here seriously debating a comeback by her... isn't it brighter than bright as day even to the late late bloomers by now, that Zagitova is retired, while on paper saying whatever it needs to say so she and the Fed can keep making that cash (that she deserves)?

Ain't a typo.

I can't read Alinas mind. I do not expect her to come back competitively but if she did and put everything into it like she used to I have no doubt she could compete and score in the 230 point range again. How many skaters can hit 230 points and above internationally? 5?

 

[Thrashergurl]

Alina isn’t in any shape to come back to competition skating, nor should she be. She is enjoying life as a celebrity now. I don’t think if she returned she could be even top 5. Her scores won’t have the Olympic champion bonus she was receiving, and quite honestly there is no way she can compete with the girls with triple axels and quads.
I just don’t see Alina coming back. I don’t know how Medvedeva plans to compete either. Medvedeva is more in skating shape and seems to have the desire to continue, but I can’t see her top 5 either.

I really wish Russia would develop some pro competitions similar to what the US did when skating was popular in the states. I know it’s been discussed on this forum before. I would love to see Zagitova and Medvedeva, maybe Tukt, Yulia....throw in some Ashley Wagner, Nagasu, Osmond......those would be some fun pro competitions to watch.

 

[Tonight's the Night]

Alina is the last champion of the pre-quad era. Anyone in her place would do the same after winning it all. She has not quit yet may be because of the contracts, may be because Eteri or someone convinced her to wait and see whether this quad era is going to stay or it was just a short burst by 2 kid-prodigies who would lose those quads as soon as puberty starts. Then all would turn to Alina and she would start preparing for her second Olympics. I think that the same logic has been true with Zhenya.

But as the time passed it is absolutely clear now that quadsters have come to stay. And Alina cannot compete with them under current system. Quadsters have made it impossible to see long-playing champions like Katarina, Irina or Michelle any more. Well, unless we see the first skater who can keep them well past puberty. Some people have issues with that - I don't. I am glad that there are new faces.

I've been entertaining a theoretical possibility: that Sasha could be the first skater to not only hold onto her quads, but get better and better at them. Years of practice can have that effect. So what if she just gets so good at quads that she can reliably land five of them in every free skate. Couldn't that mean gold for Trusova in 2026?

 

[AshWagsFan]

Alina isn’t in any shape to come back to competition skating, nor should she be. She is enjoying life as a celebrity now. I don’t think if she returned she could be even top 5. Her scores won’t have the Olympic champion bonus she was receiving, and quite honestly there is no way she can compete with the girls with triple axels and quads.
I just don’t see Alina coming back. I don’t know how Medvedeva plans to compete either. Medvedeva is more in skating shape and seems to have the desire to continue, but I can’t see her top 5 either.

I really wish Russia would develop some pro competitions similar to what the US did when skating was popular in the states. I know it’s been discussed on this forum before. I would love to see Zagitova and Medvedeva, maybe Tukt, Yulia....throw in some Ashley Wagner, Nagasu, Osmond......those would be some fun pro competitions to watch.

YES YES YES

We need pro competitions for these retired ladies skaters, especially the ones from the most recent era. They’re all so talented!

 

[AshWagsFan]

I've been entertaining a theoretical possibility: that Sasha could be the first skater to not only hold onto her quads, but get better and better at them. Years of practice can have that effect. So what if she just gets so good at quads that she can reliably land five of them in every free skate. Couldn't that mean gold for Trusova in 2026?

I don’t think it’s necessarily theoretical, I could legitimately see it happening. I’m not sure if she can keep all of the quads for another four years (but I've been proven wrong many times before), but I think she can really work on her triple axel and keep the quad toe/Sal. Then, she can focus on really developing her artistry/skating skills, and she could really catapult herself to the 2026 OGM!

 

[Dawn825]

She can do the loop combinations, so why not include them in the program?

Can she? She's never done one in a program for the last 2 years as far as I know. That indicates that she can't do them reliably, possibly because of her often unsteady/inside edge landings.

 

[AshWagsFan]

Can she? She's never done one in a program for the last 2 years as far as I know. That indicates that she can't do them reliably, possibly because of her often unsteady/inside edge landings.

There was videos of her landing loop combos at some point - either at russian nationals practice or Russian cup practice

 

[[email protected]]

I've been entertaining a theoretical possibility: that Sasha could be the first skater to not only hold onto her quads, but get better and better at them. Years of practice can have that effect. So what if she just gets so good at quads that she can reliably land five of them in every free skate. Couldn't that mean gold for Trusova in 2026?

I had a long debate with those who claimed that Eteri could only be successful with pre-puberty girls. This debate took place 2014 through 2018. My argument was that she had started her TT career just before 2010, started with young girls, started with new ideas. She physically could not have successful mature skaters back then. Now, on the one hand we see that Eteri keeps working with Zhenya, she brought to success 18 year old Elizabeth, she even managed to develop Morisi into worlds top-10 contender. On the other hand, ladies figure skating has changed due to Eteri. And we just don't have any relevant data points yet to see if there could be "mature quadsters". May be Sasha and Anna will be pioneers. May be not. Then we shall revert to the starting position. The difference will be though in the fact that Eteri can be only successful with pre-puberty girls not per se but because only pre-puberty girls can land reliable quads.

I hope once again that Sasha and Anna, (and Rika) will prove this wrong. Others like Kamila are still too young. And looking at Liza's ongoing fight with 3A landings I don't believe she can introduce quads in her programs.

 

[Greengemmonster]

I've been entertaining a theoretical possibility: that Sasha could be the first skater to not only hold onto her quads, but get better and better at them. Years of practice can have that effect. So what if she just gets so good at quads that she can reliably land five of them in every free skate. Couldn't that mean gold for Trusova in 2026?

I agree with you. Her triples look so insanely easy now. So high and solid. Give it another 2 years and I'm starting to wonder if the quads will be like triples. She just needs excellent health!!!! I'm finding much humor in the fact that she could be the one with longevity despite certain people waiting for her to lose her jumps. This applies to Anna as well.

It's insane how good they are now, all we can really do is wish them the best of health!!!

 

[Tonight's the Night]

I agree with you. Her triples look so insanely easy now. So high and solid. Give it another 2 years and I'm starting to wonder if the quads will be like triples.

I was thinking that while recently watching her warm up for Russian nationals. A triple for some of these skaters is like a double in the old days.

I had a long debate with those who claimed that Eteri could only be successful with pre-puberty girls. This debate took place 2014 through 2018.

Wish I had been present for this debate! But now we have new data.... or

I hope once again that Sasha and Anna, (and Rika) will prove this wrong.

we will soon.

Another thought I've had is to compare to athletes I have followed in other sports. Like a baseball player who gradually becomes a better hitter over the course of several years, mid-career -- whether learning a new skill, like hitting to the opposite field, or just getting better at a skill he had already, like being patient in the batter's box. This can happen, so I see no reason why it can't happen in figure skating.

 

[Amei]

Considering Valieva have sometimes had issues on 2nd half 3Lzs I would personally keep one +3T in the first half but it would be a cool layout

At the Cup final she could certainly do that, but if we are talking about for Olympic season she really needs to make sure she is maximizing her layout as much as possible because the salchow and the toe are the lowest valued quads, Trusova and Shcherbakova both have competed the 2 highest valued quads (flip and lutz) and both have competed the 4Lz in combination; both have generally scored very well internationally on GOEs for their quads as well.

 

[brakes]

I am rewatching Alina's Olympic programs again, and I feel happiness, as always! I am thankful to the Russian girls and coaches for giving us so much to talk about in this thread.

It depends which commentary I'm watching. It's been three years and Russian ones still makes me uncomfortable.
Also, I worship you Eteri Georgievna, but you should never, EVER have said to the reporter in Alina's presence to not call her an Olympic Champion.

Ain't a typo.

I can't read Alinas mind. I do not expect her to come back competitively but if she did and put everything into it like she used to I have no doubt she could compete and score in the 230 point range again. How many skaters can hit 230 points and above internationally? 5?

Daniil explained it in Emma's interview pretty well: Alina is great competitor - when she got 'that' look in her eyes stepping on the ice, she's gonna destroy everybody standing in her way. On the other side though, he said she's perfectionist, getting very upset when unable to reach her goals, so I doubt she'd go after quadsters now - it'd be long, unpleasant, excruciating way to go with highly uncertain outcome in the end.
As big a favourite Rika had been, Alina knew she's within her reach so she went for hunt. Sasha, Anna and Kamila are different kind of game.

 

[Scott512]

It depends which commentary I'm watching. It's been three years and Russian ones still makes me uncomfortable.
Also, I worship you Eteri Georgievna, but you should never, EVER have said to the reporter in Alina's presence to not call her an Olympic Champion.


Daniil explained it in Emma's interview pretty well: Alina is great competitor - when she got 'that' look in her eyes stepping on the ice, she's gonna destroy everybody standing in her way. On the other side though, he said she's perfectionist, getting very upset when unable to reach her goals, so I doubt she'd go after quadsters now - it'd be long, unpleasant, excruciating way to go with highly uncertain outcome in the end.
As big a favourite Rika had been, Alina knew she's within her reach so she went for hunt. Sasha, Anna and Kamila are different kind of game.

You know I had forgotten that EG had said that until recently about asking the reporter
not to call Alina Olympic champion. I saw a video on YouTube of this Paolo Castillo woman who did a video on the rivalry between Alina and Evgenia. Some people think it was TAT who said that and not EG. But if it was Eteri it was certainly a firable offense if I was one of Alinas parents. That was far worse than anything Trankov Bobrova TAT or Nastyac G said. Alinas parents were far too nice post Olympics. Alina is very forgiving. That just makes her more special.

For the reasons you explain she'd probably will not come back competitively. But I would like to see competitions between retired skaters or a whole division of artistic figure skaters which would benefit skaters like Nastya Stasya Zhenya etc.

 

[macy]

You know I had forgotten that EG had said that until recently about asking the reporter
not to call Alina Olympic champion. I saw a video on YouTube of this Paolo Castillo woman who did a video on the rivalry between Alina and Evgenia. Some people think it was TAT who said that and not EG. But if it was Eteri it was certainly a firable offense if I was one of Alinas parents. That was far worse than anything Trankov Bobrova TAT or Nastyac G said. Alinas parents were far too nice post Olympics. Alina is very forgiving. That just makes her more special.

For the reasons you explain she'd probably will not come back competitively. But I would like to see competitions between retired skaters or a whole division of artistic figure skaters which would benefit skaters like Nastya Stasya Zhenya etc.

wow i never knew Eteri said this, what a slap in the face, and from your own coach at that. makes me wonder why Alina has stuck with her after that.

 

[nussnacker]

Also, I worship you Eteri Georgievna, but you should never, EVER have said to the reporter in Alina's presence to not call her an Olympic Champion.

I tried to find it, and the one I found she says something like “Don’t tell her that (inaudible part) Olympic Champion”.
It sounded like there might be part of the conversation missing there, so I am not sure if the phrase flying around is even complete. But anyways, she could’ve been more assertive about Alina’s win in any scenario. I think at that point she was probably trying to salvage whatever was left of her relationship with Evgenia, and that was all in vain regardless.