2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[dhjh811]

Agreed, but it's not me who used "once-in-a-generation athletic talent" phrase. I respect Messi, he's certainly my top 5 footballer of all time, still he wouldn't be my top 500 athletic talent, that's all. I have no idea why Shayuki used that argument supporting Messi's greatness.

You realize that being athletically talented doesn't mean you are tall and muscular or have a specific physique? Besides, there is no one specific physique that is advantageous for football. An athletic talent is someone who's quite literally athletically talented. The only reason Barcelona agreed to invest in Messi by paying for his expensive hormone treatments was because he was an athletically talented kid. So there is nothing wrong with Shayuki using "athletic talent" to describe Messi because that's what he is. Not sure why you went straight away to critiquing his physique...

 

[brakes]

You realize that being athletically talented doesn't mean you are tall and muscular or have a specific physique? Besides, there is no one specific physique that is advantageous for football. An athletic talent is someone who's quite literally athletically talented. The only reason Barcelona agreed to invest in Messi by paying for his expensive hormone treatments was because he was an athletically talented kid. So there is nothing wrong with Shayuki using "athletic talent" to describe Messi because that's what he is. Not sure why you went straight away to critiquing his physique...

Shayuki went there, not me. I see many arguments supporting Messi's greatness over Alina, just not his athleticity, come on...

 

[Paulipau]

Alena posted new pics to insta, looks like she's lost some weight

 

[Vilord]

Alena posted new pics to insta, looks like she's lost some weight

I did think she looked more fit then previously so lets hope that translates into performing her programs better this upcoming weekend.

 

[bookofcharms]

Sure that it is better from a fan perspective. But what is unique is more precious. Like in Eminem's song: "if you had one shot, one opportunity to seize everything you ever wanted, one moment, would you capture it, or just let it slip?" Now for a skater in ladies there is truly one shot to capture the OGM after years and years of training and competitions. Trusova, Scherbakova, Kihira even Valieva as 2026 OGM contenders? I would rather say no than yes. That's why the drama, that's why the emphasis.

I just do have a problem with the way skating sees itself as one competition every four years with a bunch of filler in between.

I just do not think that the Olympics tells the full story of the true talent of an athlete.

This is absolutely the case in ladies skating where it's often more about being as young as possible at the right time. For example, what if Valieva wins the Olympics? The narrative of the champions will just jump straight from Sotnikova, Zagitova, Valieva .... just think of the huge talent that actually existed in the sport (in fact dominated and shaped the sport) outside of those names.

 

[Shayuki]

Shayuki went there, not me. I see many arguments supporting Messi's greatness over Alina, just not his athleticity, come on...

I'm not talking about bodybuilding, I'm talking about football.

There's athletic ability in sumo wrestling too, doesn't mean the sumo wrestler looks like Christiano Ronaldo. What a waste of time this argument is.

Now, if you are trying to argue that Zagitova is "athletic" in the sense of being more athletic than the top professional athletes in explosive sports, or a "bodybuilding" comparison, then it's simply laughable. That would in my opinion be something like Nafissatou Thiam. So hopefully you're not making such an argument.

 

[Finley]

Ever seen Messi play football?

And Alina's physique's hardly special among figure skaters. Supermodel, supernatural stamina? How ridiculous. You can compliment her without this stuff. Being pretty isn't an athletic feature.

I believe this might have been in reference to her back-loaded programs. Three years ago it was a big deal. Lots of non-Russian figure skating legends were impressed. (Kurt Browning, Scott Hamilton, Tanith Belbin, British Eurosport guys, the list goes on.) Also the combination jump she did in practice at the Olympics blew some commentators away.

I can see that you are entirely unimpressed by Alina and that is fine. Everyone can't like everything. But some people, notably international legends of FS, were in fact impressed with her stamina, her athleticism, and other qualities. The fact that no one else even attempted it at the highest level of competition says a lot.

Much like all records get broken eventually, her tech levels have been bypassed. But in that moment, they were something special.

 

[Finley]

I just do have a problem with the way skating sees itself as one competition every four years with a bunch of filler in between.

I just do not think that the Olympics tells the full story of the true talent of an athlete.

This is absolutely the case in ladies skating where it's often more about being as young as possible at the right time. For example, what if Valieva wins the Olympics? The narrative of the champions will just jump straight from Sotnikova, Zagitova, Valieva .... just think of the huge talent that actually existed in the sport (in fact dominated and shaped the sport) outside of those names.

True fans will never forget the skaters they love. No matter what they achieve or don't achieve.

Some fans are casual fans. They pay attention every 4 years. There is no wrong way to be a fan and love a sport. (Unless it involves harassing athletes and their fans, but that's another post.)

Everyone cares differently.

 

[dhjh811]

Shayuki went there, not me. I see many arguments supporting Messi's greatness over Alina, just not his athleticity, come on...

You are the one that said Messi is not a special athletic talent solely based on his body type. How can you determine innate athletic ability solely through physique? I guess that means that all supermodels must be athletically gifted and that no short people could ever be innately athletically gifted.

 

[dhjh811]

I believe this might have been in reference to her back-loaded programs. Three years ago it was a big deal. Lots of non-Russian figure skating legends were impressed. (Kurt Browning, Scott Hamilton, Tanith Belbin, British Eurosport guys, the list goes on.) Also the combination jump she did in practice at the Olympics blew some commentators away.

I can see that you are entirely unimpressed by Alina and that is fine. Everyone can't like everything. But some people, notably international legends of FS, were in fact impressed with her stamina, her athleticism, and other qualities. The fact that no one else even attempted it at the highest level of competition says a lot.

Much like all records get broken eventually, her tech levels have been bypassed. But in that moment, they were something special.

I don't think it's that Shayuki is entirely unimpressed by Alina... It's more that someone is making ridiculous claims about Alina being a greater athletic talent than Messi solely based on their body types. Using the word "supermodel" doesn't help either... Does having an aesthetically pleasing body type automatically mean that one is innately athletically talented? "Supernatural stamina" doesn't exactly help either when footballers run about 10 km per match (I know that Alina has amazing stamina for a figure skater, but mentioning that in comparison to Messi? come on...)

 

[brakes]

You are the one that said Messi is not a special athletic talent solely based on his body type. How can you determine innate athletic ability solely through physique? I guess that means that all supermodels must be athletically gifted and that no short people could ever be innately athletically gifted.

I didn't. I brought up Alina's stamina and jumping ability right away. Read more carefully.

 

[brakes]

I don't think it's that Shayuki is entirely unimpressed by Alina... It's more that someone is making ridiculous claims about Alina being a greater athletic talent than Messi solely based on their body types. Using the word "supermodel" doesn't help either... Does having an aesthetically pleasing body type automatically mean that one is innately athletically talented? "Supernatural stamina" doesn't exactly help either when footballers run about 10 km per match (I know that Alina has amazing stamina for a figure skater, but mentioning that in comparison to Messi? come on...)

Aesthetically pleasing body type is important in aesthetically pleasing sport that is figure skating. That's a fact you may not like, but it's still there.

 

[Novalis]

I like this! This Messi talk will get us to 1000 pages in no time.

What do you guys think about Kylian Mbappe and Robert Lewandowski? Are they better than Medvedeva?

 

[dhjh811]

I didn't. I brought up Alina's stamina and jumping ability right away. Read more carefully.

?
"Messi, an once-in-a-generation athletic talent? Are you kidding me?
Guy is short, unproportionally built, not naturally muscular at all, needed growth hormone as a kid to even take on sports, while
Alina in her best competitive shape looked like a supermodel with supernatural stamina. You must have confused personages we're discussing."

Is this not literally making assumptions about Messi's athletic ability based on his physique alone? Like Shayuki said, this discussion has been pointless with it just going in circles.

 

[Finley]

Aesthetically pleasing body type is important in aesthetically pleasing sport that is figure skating. That's a fact you may not like, but it's still there.

Aerodynamic is probably a better word. 'Aesthetically pleasing' is 100% subjective and it is not, in and of itself, going to land a triple axel or Quad Lutz.

 

[dhjh811]

Aesthetically pleasing body type is important in aesthetically pleasing sport that is figure skating. That's a fact you may not like, but it's still there.

Ok, I know that an aesthetically pleasing body type is important to figure skating as is it is to ballet. However, I am confused on why someone with an aesthetically pleasing body type=athletic talent according to you, when that's not necessarily true. Athletic talents come in all kinds of physiques: short, tall, lean, muscular, long-limbed, short-limbed

 

[brakes]

Ever seen Messi play football?

I've watched probably 10 times more Messi's matches than Alina's performances, with plenty of people, commenting his fantastic performances half of the viewing time and I can't recall one person pointing to his athleticism as a reason of his excellence.
On the contrary, viewers were generally admiring his skills prevailing over more athletically gifted opponents.

 

[bookofcharms]

I think it's quite the opposite in skating - it's got nothing to do with aesthetics. Unfortunately, the best type of body for ladies is a prepubescent, pencil thin figure.

This is more about sheer functionality rather than anything society would think is 'aesthetically pleasing' in terms of general views of female beauty.

 

[Finley]

I like this! This Messi talk will get us to 1000 pages in no time.

What do you guys think about Kylian Mbappe and Robert Lewandowski? Are they better than Medvedeva?

Who?

Kidding.

I don't think it's that Shayuki is entirely unimpressed by Alina... It's more that someone is making ridiculous claims about Alina being a greater athletic talent than Messi solely based on their body types. Using the word "supermodel" doesn't help either... Does having an aesthetically pleasing body type automatically mean that one is innately athletically talented? "Supernatural stamina" doesn't exactly help either when footballers run about 10 km per match (I know that Alina has amazing stamina for a figure skater, but mentioning that in comparison to Messi? come on...)

The top rated sports for endurance are all clearly endurance based sports: orienteering, triathlon and rowing.

Water Polo would also like a word.

So Alina and Messi can both have a seat. On the legends bench.

 

[dhjh811]

Aerodynamic is probably a better word. 'Aesthetically pleasing' is 100% subjective and it is not, in and of itself, going to land a triple axel or Quad Lutz.

they just wrote that because I used that term

I think it's quite the opposite in skating - it's got nothing to do with aesthetics. Unfortunately, the best type of body for ladies is a prepubescent, pencil thin figure.

This is more about sheer functionality rather than anything society would think is 'aesthetically pleasing' in terms of general views of female beauty.

To be fair to brakes, I used that term first as a synonym to how he/she was first describing Alina's physique in comparison to Messi with "supermodel". Probably just quoting me