2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[lopsilceci]

Not sure why people responded to this with the laughing emoji... Making fun of Daniil's choreography I get - of eating disorders in young girls, not so much.

It sounds like this person wishes for all these things to happen just so that everyone turns against "evil" Team Tutberidze.

 

[Fantik]

It sounds like this person wishes for all these things to happen just so that everyone turns against "evil" Team Tutberidze.

Jealousy. Tut is a genius, while the hater is just that...

 

[DougDorsey]

Is that what you consider screaming? Her volume was so low that despite microphones being very good, it was really hard to pick up what she was even saying. Identifiable, but not super clear.

She didn’t even talk to Adelia about smiling, that was Sofia A. Wasn’t that just.... a feedback to a skater about their performance?

Yeah, she wasn't screaming, but whatever she was saying was clearly upsetting Adelia. I dunno, it's tough to draw conclusion based on what you see on camera for two minutes, but for me, it seemed like a moment where you'd want to be consoling a young skater, or at least saying something like, "You lacked your normal passion in your performance today. We're going to have to work on that. But I'm still proud of you for reaching the podium again."

 

[nussnacker]

It sounds like this person wishes for all these things to happen just so that everyone turns against "evil" Team Tutberidze.

Exactly... it sounded so ... absurd. Someone’s sick fantasy, what in the hell even was that?
Hating Eteri/Daniil is fine by me, but why wish these young athletes, with some of the most amazing stamina, fainting from exhaustion and hunger? How cruel is that? Just to stick it to Eteri? Sorry that they’re not fainting, but skate with ease

The rest just sounded ridiculous, it was hard not to laugh at it as if someone saying something about Danny G’s choreo would have him crumble, go in the corner and cry so far he only received praises from ballet dancers, tough luck. Maybe next time someone will scold him, let’s hope for that!

 

[DougDorsey]

Nothing helps like someone screaming at you to smile I'd be very surprised if anyone left Eteri's anytime soon after this mess with Aliona. On the other hand, I am constantly surprised by what goes on over there so maybe she'll be by out next week.

Worth nothing that Rozanov, who a lot of the younger Eteri girls were close with, suddenly has a lot of free time on his hands.

True, things didn't work out with Aliona, but I'm sure if there's a skater or two who's unhappy with Eteri right now, their parents would at least take a phone call from him.

 

[Shayuki]

Yeah, she wasn't screaming, but whatever she was saying was clearly upsetting Adelia. I dunno, it's tough to draw conclusion based on what you see on camera for two minutes, but for me, it seemed like a moment where you'd want to be consoling a young skater, or at least saying something like, "You lacked your normal passion in your performance today. We're going to have to work on that. But I'm still proud of you for reaching the podium again."

You'd prefer her to say such a thing when she'd clearly be lying? Shrug. She didn't like the way Petrosyan just focused on the elements and didn't perform properly, so she gave her the feedback on that.

Some people like empty talk, some people like honesty. I'm sure there are coaches you can choose from if you want empty talk and praise.

 

[Lechat]

Yeah, she wasn't screaming, but whatever she was saying was clearly upsetting Adelia. I dunno, it's tough to draw conclusion based on what you see on camera for two minutes, but for me, it seemed like a moment where you'd want to be consoling a young skater, or at least saying something like, "You lacked your normal passion in your performance today. We're going to have to work on that. But I'm still proud of you for reaching the podium again."

Adelia was already upset. She knows it was not her best free even if she still medaled.

I don’t think Eteri would yell at her skater if she’s already down.

 

[nussnacker]

Yeah, she wasn't screaming, but whatever she was saying was clearly upsetting Adelia. I dunno, it's tough to draw conclusion based on what you see on camera for two minutes, but for me, it seemed like a moment where you'd want to be consoling a young skater, or at least saying something like, "You lacked your normal passion in your performance today. We're going to have to work on that. But I'm still proud of you for reaching the podium again."

I believe Adelia just knew that she skated better a competition before, so of course she wouldn’t be satisfied with a performance which wasn’t as good.

Its so American to expect saying something like “it was amazing” before giving any feedback.
“You did so well, but...” is so common.
Used to confuse me so much when I first started working with Americans.
I used to think “So did I do well, or did I not? What was that?”

Might surprise you, but not all people think feedback and criticism is offensive and needs to be sugarcoated before being expressed. Russian people prefer being direct, and also don’t like unnecessary smiling.

 

[icybear]

The only way this madness will EVER end is if a bunch of things happen at once. Like, if a few skaters literally faint from exhaustion and hunger during a competition and the camera catches them worried about water weight.Or if a renowned Russian ballet choreographer criticises Daniil. Or if the girls are caught purging. Or if the judges are caught on camera discussing how to ensure a Sambo 70 win.
If only one of these happens it's not enough to take down the system. A lot has to happen at the same time, with evidence.

How sick do you have to be to be eagerly wanting to see a teenage girl faint from exhaustion/ hunger or to see one purging?

 

[Scott512]

I don't think Plushy cares or knows who you are haha.

Also, that's a verbal statement and has the inherent condition of I'll pay for everything while you're a student at my academy. She's not there anymore. And we don't even know what the contracts entailed. They might have been outside his scope as a coach.

No, I don't think Mishin or Borser would want Aliona at all.
Mishin wouldn't because he already has Liza T (who will be in direct competition with Aliona and to whom he is very devoted too), Sofia S, and Anastasia G (both of whom he is also invested in). (He also has Mikhail, Evgeni, etc with the former especially pushing for a men's Olympics spot and likely the leader for that team.) (There is also the question of Mishin's allegiance to Plushy - would he want to take Aliona for that reason, even if he did have the time and didn't have prior commitments? I don't think so.)
Borser especially wouldn't want Aliona because he doesn't want to get mixed in with the Russian skating drama ever again. Aliona would be the epitome of skating drama. It would be even worse than Evgenia because Evgenia had a stronger appeal, had fans that would follow her anywhere, and already had an incredible resume. (Really the only thing Evgenia was missing when she came to him was an OGM. And she had a silver.) Aliona doesn't have any of that, plus it's an Olympic year. (Evgenia left 3 years before the Olympics in an experimental year where she had the time to experiment with changing technique, etc - that wouldn't be the case with Aliona. Neither the RusFed nor Aliona would be patient like they were with Evgenia.) Not to mention, Aliona couldn't afford it anyway (if she can't afford AoP's costs she definitely can't afford Borser's) nor does she have a strong enough grasp of the English language. (Evgenia was able to supplement the difference in excess of the Russian national team stripend with shows, sponsorships, etc - Aliona doesn't have that pull.) Brian Orser wouldn't do it for free (nor should he) nor will he accept a student he can't converse with. Plus it would have to be online until COVID restrictions ease and Aliona has already proven that's not how she learns best. No, I don't think Borser would touch her with a 10 foot pole.

Davydov might but he doesn't have the pior coaches influence or experience.

And while yes, Aliona needs a coach to push her. She also needs the external "kick in the butt" from her direct competitors pushing her to improve. She needs the scare of being left behind.

Thank you for such a detailed response. But's a pretty bleak picture you paint. Most people think if she doesn't make it back at TT Aliona is done. I don't feel that at all I think she needs to recover from her illnesses and injuries before she can stride again. Trying to do all of this on the fly is if you will is Russian Roulette.

And after the Olympics the professor will want Aliona if she's available. She's much better than Sofia and Nastia. Liza will probably be checking out after the next Olympic cycle.

 

[Fried]

Jealousy. Tut is a genius, while the hater is just that...

Genius? Cleverness would be the right word. What does young girls' emotional submission, coupled with 1.5 million repetitions of elements per day, have to do with genius?

 

[Fantik]

Genius? Cleverness would be the right word. What does young girls' emotional submission, coupled with 1.5 million repetitions of elements per day, have to do with genius?

 

[Fantik]

Most people think if she doesn't make it back at TT Aliona is done. I don't feel that at all I think she needs to recover from her illnesses and injuries before she can stride again.

There isn't time for recovery. Competition is too steep. Undoubtedly you saw these up and coming, quad jumping wonderkids. Not just at Sambo, but other clubs as well.

 

[Shayuki]

Genius? Cleverness would be the right word. What does young girls' emotional submission, coupled with 1.5 million repetitions of elements per day, have to do with genius?

Tends to notice the smallest things and is very sensitive to the skaters' behaviour. For example, can tell when the skater's not trying their best or when they're worried about something, etc. even if the skater isn't aware of it herself.

 

[skylark]

I re-watched Aliona's skates to remind myself of what was so extraordinary about her in previous years, especially 2019-20. It was her sparkle and charisma along with her interpretive and performance gifts, combined with the brilliant, beautiful triple axels and 3F-3Ts. Her programs this year just didn't have that sparkle, and it wasn't just the absence of the 3A. This year's skating reflects her inability to thrive under such radically different training conditions. Also, Eteri and team really did bring out what's great about her. They minimize weaknesses, yes, but what they do even more is recognize, nurture and highlight each skater's strengths.

Recognizing your own mistakes, sucking up your pride and admitting you were wrong are not "self-humiliation", it's being humble and it takes guts.

100%. Aliona is brave. Also, she takes action. That causes trouble sometimes, certainly it did in this situation. But there's an advantage to it. I believe her when she said that she knew when she came in 6th that she had to put away her pride, go to Eteri directly and apologize. Right away, not endure for a few more months. And I doubt that it was as impulsive a move as it looks. She's had six months to realize, little by little, that the freedom she was given at AoP was too much and the guidance too little. Many people don't thrive when they have too many choices. Routines, habits, being pushed by coach, all can have the effect of providing the structure and freeing Aliona to focus. She said that at AoP she couldn't make herself push to 100%. I also can understand why she didn't like the yelling at TT. She's a highly sensitive person, and that goes along with her great talents -- that of bringing some sort of unusual energy all her own to her performances, and being so relatable. I don't doubt that it was hard for her; I also think that she'll now be able to put that in perspective, put it in a box so to speak and focus on what she needs to do.

And Eteri didn't have to take her back either after the way Aliona left. Other coaches in her place probably wouldn't do it.

A lot of people are focusing on what Eteri gains. But I can understand how hard it must have been for her to get past her own feelings to accept her, after the way Aliona left her. I think she really did need time to think it over and work through her feelings. Those couple of days gave her the chance to list the conditions for taking her back, which really had most to do with accepting the TT system, including the goal of getting the 3A. But I think the real, first hurdle was probably emotional. And it made all the difference when Diana said, "Mom, you must give a chance." Diana reminded her of what Eteri really believes, that everyone deserves a chance, a second chance too (at least). Then she let go and, as she stated, God said she must accept. What that means, I think, is that she allowed the better angels of her nature to take over. She'll no doubt still be working on forgiving the hurt. Journeys to forgiveness and to excellence take time. Step by step. Still ... I really wouldn't be surprised if Aliona gets her 3A back in good time and makes stunning progress and improvement on performing whatever programs she'll be given. As was pointed out at length in this thread, she made that swift progress before when she first came to Sambo.

You can see, this whole situation has given me higher respect and appreciation for both Aliona and Eteri.

 

[Fried]

Tends to notice the smallest things and is very sensitive to the skaters' behaviour. For example, can tell when the skater's not trying their best or when they're worried about something, etc. even if the skater isn't aware of it herself.

Interesting. In my case, however, that would be more of a "seer". But kidding aside. Didn't TAT also have this kind of "genius"? I think I can remember a saying from her, according to which it is fascinating when girls who have just been crying complained that they are in pain and can't no longer do it, they do it very well after being slapped?
Of course, Eteri doesn't hit physically. In any case, I wonder why these ingenious abilities are used almost exclusively in underage girls whose ultimate goal is not their own, but to skate in such a way that Eteri praises them.

 

[Dawn825]

Is that what you consider screaming? Her volume was so low that despite microphones being very good, it was really hard to pick up what she was even saying. Identifiable, but not super clear.

She didn’t even talk to Adelia about smiling, that was Sofia A. Wasn’t that just.... a feedback to a skater about their performance?

You're right, I might have been mixing up Adelia and Sofia. Honestly I didn't watch either of them get their scores and I don't understand Russian. Just from what people were saying, it sounded like that scene from Dance Moms of Abby screaming "AND WE'RE ALL GONNA HAVE FUN!"

 

[Amei]

Interesting that aliona can leave at the end ofbthe season. I think TT will keep her who are the Olympic season partly to keep her away from cska Sergei Davydov who teaches the triple Axel and quads. While I'm happy aliona is back at TT she is number 6 on the depth chart right now and number 7 overall when you consider competition for those three vital Olympic spots for the Russian ladies. EG does not want Kosto anywhere near Davydov where Aliona would be the #1 senior lady and have a real chance to get her 3A back. If Aliona makes a run at the Olympic team and the worlds team after the Olympics EG wants it to be with her or she will get the credit for it.. So while Eteri is being regarded as charitable and forgiving taving Aliona back there is a strategy behind it to in my opinion.

My reason for thinking Eteri is being forgiving/generous in taking Kostornaia back - Kostornaia left very late last year after Eteri and her team spent time and effort to create programs for her and it was a bad split with insults towards the Eteri team and less than a year later Kostornaia is asking to come back and going to need a lot more work from Eteri to get her back to being ready to compete for the Olympic team.

Excellent points.

Interesting that aliona can leave at the end ofbthe season. I think TT will keep her who are the Olympic season partly to keep her away from cska Sergei Davydov who teaches the triple Axel and quads. While I'm happy aliona is back at TT she is number 6 on the depth chart right now and number 7 overall when you consider competition for those three vital Olympic spots for the Russian ladies. EG does not want Kosto anywhere near Davydov where Aliona would be the #1 senior lady and have a real chance to get her 3A back. If Aliona makes a run at the Olympic team and the worlds team after the Olympics EG wants it to be with her or she will get the credit for it.. So while Eteri is being regarded as charitable and forgiving taving Aliona back there is a strategy behind it to in my opinion.

I find it a bit disturbing and its completely opposite of Eteri's history, this implication that Eteri is somehow taking Kostornaia back out of some desire to hold her back and prevent her from being a viable threat to the Olympic team. Based off the conditions of return that was brought up in that interview, that she would need that triple axel back and no missing practices, it doesn't sound like a coach that is looking to hold back a skater. Nothing in Eteri's history that suggests that she would sacrifice 1 skater for another - 2018, Medvedeva was largely talked about as being a second daughter to Eteri and Eteri didn't hold back Zagitova to make any easier road for Medvedeva to be able to win, additionally Shcherbakova has been with her forever and Eteri is clearly not holding back Valieva to help Shcherbakova out.

Also, somebody answer for me who is aliona's Uncle I keep hearing about? He she somehow related to Lakernik?

Anybody have any proof of the rumors that they are related, from what was said earlier in the week this rumor originated on a Trusova fan page. Its about like Konstantinova that whenever she got selected for anything this rumor that she had a Fed or Russian govt. connection was brought up to explain away her selection - never did see anybody offer any type of proof about it.

 

[Amei]

Finally, I can't say I've spotted Adeliya in any of the recent press photographs that have been coming out of Team Tutberidze over the past couple days, but maybe I just haven't been looking close enough.

Shcherbakova has been missing from a lot of press-released photos and I don't think anyone thinks she's leaving. Adeliya might just have school or family things going on now that the season is over, or given her age perhaps her parents want to limit her exposure on social media?

 

[lappo]

Meanwhile, to lighten the discussion a bit two "new" EX from the Ice Age gala:
1) Alina new version of "I will make it out alive" (with a new beginning - sans windmill arms - and a new and way more flattering dress; I like this version a lot better, I'm glad that they reworked it): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wzIp8X_cWs
2) Zhenya new EX to Kometa by Jony: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QndYpPx_xxM (did Averbukh choreograph this?)