2020-21 Russian Ladies' Figure Skating

[Gabby30]

This one is a particular nonsense! Is being less scandalous, not changing coaches and not delivering shocking comments in the interviews considered now as being pale and having no charisma? I don't know why you always "forget" about Anna but gladly I see here a lot of people who don't

How i feel and think is not nonsense, it's how i feel and think and nobody is gonna tell me i should feel and think different than i do. You might think different, but that's your problem. I don't see anything special about her, there are more interesting skaters out there. For me, she is forgettable, and there's nothing you can do about it

 

[lopsilceci]

Lol indeed. It's is clear that if some thing is unclearly unclear, it is clearly unclear.

Sounds like something out of Lewis Carroll's book.

Are you saying that the edge should get a call because it's not clear if it's unclear?

If I were the TP and there wasn't a good replay angle to be sure if the edge is flat or inside but it looks like it's at least slightly outside, I would just give the skater the benefit of the doubt and call it clean.

 

[readernick]

Sounds like something out of Lewis Carroll's book.

Are you saying that the edge should get a call because it's not clear if it's unclear?

If I were the TP and there wasn't a good replay angle to be sure if the edge is flat or inside but it looks like it's at least slightly outside, I would just give the skater the benefit of the doubt and call it clean.

A lutz is jumped from a clear outside edge. So, it there isn't a clear outside edge it should be called. As it happens, it is possible to see both Anna's lutz and flip edges here. Her flip edge is flat and her lutz is flat too. They both deserved calls. But, it didn't happen. Anna did show real grit didn't she.

 

[dante]

I was first in the queue, join the line behind me!

There is something in her that makes a lot of people perceive her as their own child.

 

[chasingneverland]

Sounds like something out of Lewis Carroll's book.

Are you saying that the edge should get a call because it's not clear if it's unclear?

If I were the TP and there wasn't a good replay angle to be sure if the edge is flat or inside but it looks like it's at least slightly outside, I would just give the skater the benefit of the doubt and call it clean.

Well the other thing is the tech panel doesn't review every jump. They only review the ones that they called live as needing to be looked at.

That's kinda where reputation really happens. If it looked okay live they're not going to look at it, especially if they know said skater doesn't tend to get called for edges/etc. It's also why once you get called and get a reputation for underrotations, edges, etc, the tech panel will be more likely to not give you the benefit of the doubt during your skate which means they'll subject more to review which means you're more likely to be called.

 

[Azikin]

There is something in her that makes a lot of people perceive her as their own child.

I met her parents and I wouldn't give her to anyone else..

 

[chasingneverland]

And then the anticipated objection is: if she goes for five quads she is risking another Rostelecom-style meltdown. But I don't think her difficulty in jumping five quads is about fitness; it's not as if she is any less fit than she was at that Grand Prix final fifteen months ago. The difficulty is mental. And if she knows that she can miss a quad and still come back and land others then she should be OK.

Well, what do I know. I at least wanted to have more confidence in a kind of "conceptual frame" for my viewing of the long program on Friday. Time to step back and read some more commentary.

May the entire field give it their all...

With Sasha it IS mental. However, I also think she does need to get a clean skate in. Also, right now, she does have nothing to lose.

Rostelecom was different in that she was injured as well as it being mental. If she were still injured I would say to go for an "easier" program.

 

[JazzUp]

I met her parents and I wouldn't give her to anyone else..

exactly! btw, happy birthday to Anya's dad

 

[Shayuki]

Lol indeed. It's is clear that if some thing is unclearly unclear, it is clearly unclear.

ISU guidelines:

Wrong edge take off F/Lz (sign “e”) -2 to -4
Unclear edge take off F/Lz (sign “!”) -1 to -2
Unclear edge take off F/Lz (no sign) -1

What some people don't seem to get is that an unclear edge doesn't need to have a ! to be an unclear edge. ! is the "second tier" of unclear edge, so worse than the signless ones.

And by the rules as well, no sign -1, ! -1 to -2. So it might as well not even make a difference whether there is a ! or not, if you choose the -1 with !.

 

[dhjh811]

Not so fast. Today was just a fluke -- overrotating a triple because intensive quad training over the past days, after recovering from injury. Trusova now has correct jumping technique (which is extremely important), and has shown massive improvements in skating skills and artistry. Barring circumstances such as illness/injury, she and Liza T. have the highest probability of making the Olympic team, as their correct technique makes them resilient to fluctuations in body mass and center of gravity.

Shcherbaova has been showing visible signs that the faulty technique relying on upper-body induced torque is starting to fail her, in the same way it failed Zagitova, Medvedeva, and Lipnitskaya in the past. Valieva also has major flaws in her technique, most visible in her weird axis position in the air, the wonky landings, and the wobbles in attaching a second jump to a combination. The Russian Cup Final amply exposed those flaws. As for the other girls, only Khromyk has quads, and they are not fully rotated or stable at all.

So the Olympic team will most probably be Sasha T., Liza T., and whichever third girl manages to be in top form next season.

There is almost no chance that both of them end up on the Olympic team. We really can't be sure of how things will be a year later, but you based your prediction on things as they are now. As of now, I cannot see Liza placing ahead of Kamila at nationals. Even if Liza somehow did and Kamila ended up 4th or something behind 3 other senior ladies, I doubt the fed would actually not send her to the Olympics. Frankly, even Sasha's place on the team seems in danger now. She really needs a medal here to cement her status as one of the top 3 competitiors for the Olympic team, which is why I desperately want her to do well in the free. Without it, it gives the fed more reasons to maybe send a third Eteri girl (Maiia with more consistency on her quads, Daria with a triple axel, etc) with higher PCS potential.

 

[Rus Skating World]

How i feel and think is not nonsense, it's how i feel and think and nobody is gonna tell me i should feel and think different than i do. You might think different, but that's your problem. I don't see anything special about her, there are more interesting skaters out there. For me, she is forgettable, and there's nothing you can do about it

Well, then I feel and think that your initial comment made no sense, just my personal opinion, sorry

Speaking seriously however, there was nothing about you but about Anna being 'pale' and 'being forgotten by people'.
If you're not particularly interested in her skating instead of insulting her why not simply comment other skaters who you love and whose programs you understand?

 

[silveruskate]

Sasha said in an interview that she makes sure to always smile after a bad skate cuz she knows her fans don't want to see her cry. I actually think this is an incredibly mature attitude. I personally can't stand watching skaters cry after bad performances, though I understand it's a normal reaction. But Pogorilaya laying on the ice at 2017 Worlds might be my all-time least favorite moment in all the years I've watched this sport.

That's it. You shouldn't make yourself get out of control, crying is an extreme reaction. But there's more on the spectrum than a massive cheesy grin and crying, and you can be upset without crying.

 

[Jontor]

With Sasha it IS mental. However, I also think she does need to get a clean skate in. Also, right now, she does have nothing to lose.

Yes. I think it's all in her head. She's been a superstar since she was like 12 and that is hard.

I was thinking of when I was a kid. I started playing the piano when I was 8 years old. I was told I was very talented. I was a wonder kid. My school even arranged for me to go see a piano teacher with a good reputation. Expectations got high and the pressure was on. It got intense. I started skipping practising, I didn't do my homework my piano teacher gave me. It all went downhill after that. When I was 12 I quit playing all together. I was still told I was "talented but I was lazy". It wasn't until I was an adult I realised what had really happened here. The pressure got to me. And in a weird twisted way I kind of sabotaged it all myself, because, what if I gave it all and it turns out I wasn't that talented after all? This way, I still had the reputation but I didn't prove anything.

I wonder if it is something similar Sasha is going through? Of course we don't know what is going on in her mind, only Sasha does, but the expectations and pressure she is under is insane. And it's funny that still after two senior seasons where she hasn't won anything, most people are still saying that "Sasha will win, if she's clean, she's unbeatable". Anna doesn't seem to have that pressure at all.

I also think that she is training too many ultra-c elements at once. Training the 3A and then don't use it in the short was pointless. If she is not going for five quads, then what was the point in training them at all? She should have used the practise sessions here at Worlds with a planned layout that was decided and use the time to fine tune things. Not experimenting in what is working and what is not. I think she should have decided on the 3A in the short and two 4Lzs and 4Ts in the long. That is three different ultra-c elements. So why mix in the 4F and the 4S? For me that is a waste of time. Time she could have used in solidifying the 3A, 4Lz and 4T.

I really really hope she has a redemption skate tomorrow and if she's lucky, she might still medal.

This is also the most important competition for Sasha to date. The Olympic season is coming up and it is crucial she proves herself here. The queue for Russian Ladies going to the Olympics are getting longer by the day, and I would be devastated if Sasha don't make it next season.

 

[Lzbee]

Why is crying so taboo? It's not throwing a tantrum.

 

[macy]

Why is crying so taboo? It's not throwing a tantrum.

agree. not to mention being scolded for being upset and forced to paste a fake smile on your face constantly also causes problems later in life.

 

[lopsilceci]

A lutz is jumped from a clear outside edge. So, it there isn't a clear outside edge it should be called. As it happens, it is possible to see both Anna's lutz and flip edges here. Her flip edge is flat and her lutz is flat too. They both deserved calls. But, it didn't happen. Anna did show real grit didn't she.

If you get super strict with edges, you'll end up giving calls to 90% of jumps, though. Which wouldn't necessarily reflect the overall quality of the jumps, considering transitions, flow, etc...

 

[readernick]

If you get super strict with edges, you'll end up giving calls to 90% of jumps, though. Which wouldn't necessarily reflect the overall quality of the jumps, considering transitions, flow, etc...

But, it is in the rules and should be applied. That is fair judging. If not, why do some skaters work so hard to have proper edges? They should be rewarded for it. Likely 80% of skaters would have at least one jump called if judges applied this rule correctly. Some like Anna would have both jumps called flat ( her flip) or flat/e ( her lutz). That would reduce their jump GOE. But, shouldn't the 20% of skaters who do both jumps properly be rewarded? Not following the rules victimizes the skaters who do have proper edges on their jumps. So call everyone fairly, or get rid of edge requirements all together ( that would rather ruin the toe jumps for me, but whatever it would be "fair" I guess)

 

[Scott512]

Yes. I think it's all in her head. She's been a superstar since she was like 12 and that is hard.

I was thinking of when I was a kid. I started playing the piano when I was 8 years old. I was told I was very talented. I was a wonder kid. My school even arranged for me to go see a piano teacher with a good reputation. Expectations got high and the pressure was on. It got intense. I started skipping practising, I didn't do my homework my piano teacher gave me. It all went downhill after that. When I was 12 I quit playing all together. I was still told I was "talented but I was lazy". It wasn't until I was an adult I realised what had really happened here. The pressure got to me. And in a weird twisted way I kind of sabotaged it all myself, because, what if I gave it all and it turns out I wasn't that talented after all? This way, I still had the reputation but I didn't prove anything.

I wonder if it is something similar Sasha is going through? Of course we don't know what is going on in her mind, only Sasha does, but the expectations and pressure she is under is insane. And it's funny that still after two senior seasons where she hasn't won anything, most people are still saying that "Sasha will win, if she's clean, she's unbeatable". Anna doesn't seem to have that pressure at all.

I also think that she is training too many ultra-c elements at once. Training the 3A and then don't use it in the short was pointless. If she is not going for five quads, then what was the point in training them at all? She should have used the practise sessions here at Worlds with a planned layout that was decided and use the time to fine tune things. Not experimenting in what is working and what is not. I think she should have decided on the 3A in the short and two 4Lzs and 4Ts in the long. That is three different ultra-c elements. So why mix in the 4F and the 4S? For me that is a waste of time. Time she could have used in solidifying the 3A, 4Lz and 4T.

I really really hope she has a redemption skate tomorrow and if she's lucky, she might still medal.

This is also the most important competition for Sasha to date. The Olympic season is coming up and it is crucial she proves herself here. The queue for Russian Ladies going to the Olympics are getting longer by the day, and I would be devastated if Sasha don't make it next season.

You were a savant like Sasha.

Pressure Is tough to deal with. No matter what level of success or talent someone is if the pressure gets to them it can bring them down.

What I don't get about Sasha she was never going to win a big competition after the SP the way aliona or maybe KV will with their triple axels. The girl has the pptential of the highest scoreing free skate in the history of the sport for the ladies so there's no need for her to try to hit a home run so to speak in the SP just be stable get to the mid seventies or upper seventies like at nationals and then have a good free skate and there is the podium and may be a gold. What a stable short program would have done for this girl's confidence is also not known but I think it would have done a lot. Now is Sashas confidence shattered to the point where a good free skate is unlikely?

You make a very good point about how sasha is training to many ultra jumps at 1 time coming off an injury. That obviously is not a good move.
I'm sure with every human being no matter how talented they are if we're doing too many things at 1 time going to cause issues.

Sasha needs to make the Olympic team next year so she needs a stable short program where she can score in the mid to upper seventies life she did at nationals and then land 3 quads in the free skate and she can make the team and she can get on the podium there. But don't make her short program more difficult to the point where she can score 64. The girl must be devastated hope she can bounce back and show the guts we know she has in the free skate. If she lands 2 quads tomorrow I expect her to move into the top 6 if she lands 3 into the top 5 and who knows.

64 in the short program at nationals in December would pretty much cost her a spot on the Olympic team. With alliona coming back probably skating beautifully again next year with her triple axel sasha will need a stable short program and then hit 2 or 3 quads in the free skate and then she's somewhere between 245 and 260 points and that's going to win some gold medal certainly and make any podium.

 

[Scott512]

agree. not to mention being scolded for being upset and forced to paste a fake smile on your face constantly also causes problems later in life.

Who?

True.

 

[Scott512]

How i feel and think is not nonsense, it's how i feel and think and nobody is gonna tell me i should feel and think different than i do. You might think different, but that's your problem. I don't see anything special about her, there are more interesting skaters out there. For me, she is forgettable, and there's nothing you can do about it

You are in the great minority Gabby. It's just the way it is.