Ladies Short Program (will there be another judging fiasco?)

[bekalc]

I don't know the Russian commentator was cracking up at Yu-na's reaction...And in fairness to Yu-na, it's not like she pulled a Mao and phoned in the rest of the performance because it wasn't perfect... She sold that baby. And then just had the reaction of uh afterwards. Honestly, she did make a huge mistake, it's not like it was somelittle unobvious mistake. I'm willing to be the judges understood her reaction,...
So her reaction after the performance was funny.. I don't know I still wonder if that reaction is choregraphed ,because she supposedly said her program is suppose to be funny.

 

[bubbleyum]

I don't know the Russian commentator was cracking up at Yu-na's reaction...And in fairness to Yu-na, it's not like she pulled a Mao and phoned in the rest of the performance because it wasn't perfect... She sold that baby. And then just had the reaction of uh afterwards. Honestly, she did make a huge mistake, it's not like it was somelittle unobvious mistake. I'm willing to be the judges understood her reaction,...
So her reaction after the performance was funny.. I don't know I still wonder if that reaction is choregraphed ,because she supposedly said her program is suppose to be funny.

yeah, i'm pretty sure that was a sign of her being mad at herself for the mistake, and that it's not a choreographed part of the program. and i think yuna must have meant that her program was supposed to be "fun" and more upbeat, compared to her last season's programs, rather than funny as in comical...

 

[fourclover]

We will disagree and agree to, but I will try to answer your questions:

Yes! Jenny's trademark skating comes from the Boston Ballet and she has much of that musical instinct in her. I think her last Nationals was a bit of a damper for her due to her mother's death. The tempo of the music is ONE,two,three, ONE,two,three. YuNa did not show me that. She did show me determination to make her tricks. I have seen many DieFledermauses (or mice?) and to be just passable the choreography must be upbeat as the music is. A performer must then bring it over the bubbly top I just did not see that in YuNa's choreography.

Let me say again, I am hoping the LP will put her in contention for a gold medal.

Joe

Hi again,

I'm not interested in watching someone waltzing on the ice one-two-three once-two-three. I'm interested in watching a skater put together a well-rounded, well-interpreted charming performance with originality and to me, Yu-na satisfied more than enough. I'm sure she'll get better and better with each performance. I've never seen a skater with more beautiful line than Yu-na and that helps too.

 

[fourclover]

Oh, so she actually completed on time? That means that look I just can't help loving is after the end. Do you know where we can find a clip that's not off? and other skaters'?

Yu-na completed right on time. The "look" was because of the triple-triple jump miss. Some irresponsible person uploaded a vid with un-synchronized audio and everyone seems to think Yu-na has no clue about beat of the waltz.

 

[*Sniper*]

Yu-na completed right on time. The "look" was because of the triple-triple jump miss. Some irresponsible person uploaded a vid with un-synchronized audio and everyone seems to think Yu-na has no clue about beat of the waltz.

I happen to think that whoever authored that vid did a favor for everyone.

 

[fourclover]

Caroline's triple/triple looked *much* better than at SA. I'm impressed she improved so quickly.

I'm in the small minority but I actually like Yu-Na's program this season more than Roxanne. Too bad for her combo but I think she'll win overall anyways.

Carolina skated well, her jumps weren't as smooth as usual but it's nice to see her getting into the music.

Hello!

I'm with you about Yu-na. I actually like this years program than the tango last year. The only performance of the tango I liked last year was actually her very first at Skate Canada; it was subdued but performed in a more graceful way which is probably the real Yu-na. Yu-na's World's SP performance, although it received the highest score ever, I thought, was a bit gawdy and too theatrical. Personal taste I guess.

I love this new program that's light and comical and CHARMING. At first, when I heard David Wilson was doing Die Fledermaus for Yu-na's SP, I was unimpressed because I don't like waltzes and Die Fledermaus is such is well-known music that I thought it'd be too, how should I say, common, jaded, boring. But, it turned out so well. I think David Wilson is a genius.

 

[fourclover]

A QUESTION FOR EVERYONE!

Does anyone else here think Yuna's bows after her programs are so.... strangely graceless??
When she was in juniors, I thought it was because she was still a kid.
Last year, I gave her a break because it was her first senior season.

But those bows from last night at CoC.... Maybe she was too upset?
I don't know, but it just seemed like she didn't care at all about making it one bit elegant.
For someone who was so artistic and expressive during the program up until a second ago....

Just to add, I have NEVER EVER been bothered or taken by any other skater's bows before.... EVER.

She should be allowed to express disappointment at herself. The Russian commentator laughed it off and I thought it was so "human" and honest and cute. And when she takes a final "bow", the real bow before she leaves the ice, she is a stunning sight with those graceful long arms stretched upwards. What is your problem...

 

[fourclover]

Some people on this board seem to think Caroline Zhang is little Yu-na or that Caroline is or can be as graceful as Yu-na. But, to me, I don't think Caroline has the same "something" that made me notice her as I did Mao or Yu-na. Both Mao and Yu-na when they were fourteen had fragile child-like innocence thing going at the same time with some undefinable steely, austere determination and strength. It's like a very fragile delicate child, taking on the world and you want to protect her but you needn't because she's not as weak as she appears. Some sort of inner strength thing. It's in the body language, the way they carry themselves. It may be cultural, I don't know, both girls were raised in Asian countries. Look at Yu-na performing when she was fourteen which is Caroline's age now. She looks very fairy-like and almost breakable but she lands triple-triples and her face has this stoic determination that just glows. I think it's this kind of unexpectedness, strength with appearance of fragility that drew me to notice her:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QuzUDyhqWw

Caroline, on the other hand strikes me as an American girl. She looks healthy and athletic and obviously talented no end. To me, her body is fourteen but her face could be that of a thirty-five year old. So, I already EXPECT some good performance out of her and most of the time because of immaturity she fails, so I go, naw thought so, and switch her off. I don't think Caroline will ever have that something that Mao and Yu-na does. I don't think Caroline will have Yu-na's lines or the way she carries herself when she's seventeen. I think Caroline will be more like Michelle Kwan than Yu-na as she grows up. Actually, I'm sure I'm in the minority but I never thought Michell Kwan was "all that" even in her prime. I mean my co-workers were nuts over Michelle and totally fans of her but I wasn't impressed with her jumps or performances... I just don't know why.

 

[fourclover]

Kinda funny cause I thought the same thing when I read it. But I also thought of someone else who you may not have suspected...and that is...

Alyssa Czisny.

I think she's an even BETTER example than Hughes because this girl can splat four times and still have that wide grinning smile at the end. I remember back in the days I praised her smile and expression as genuine. Well, I almost did a complete 180 on that. I believe it's just all choreographed now. Of course, I think she was truly happy after her '07 Nats FS, as she should have been, but other times I think it was phoned in. I could also mention a couple of others but I will elect not to.

One other thing, I think she's waaaay over-rated. I mean whenever she comes on Dick Button goes gaga over how "ethereal" and what "beautiful" line she has. Yes, she has a pretty face and nice torso and legs, but her arms are pretty ordinary and her skating skills are unimpressive.

 

[*Sniper*]

She should be allowed to express disappointment at herself. The Russian commentator laughed it off and I thought it was so "human" and honest and cute. And when she takes a final "bow", the real bow before she leaves the ice, she is a stunning sight with those graceful long arms stretched upwards. What is your problem...

I am not just talking about this one particular case.

Her bows in general (why am I still talking about this?? SORRY!) are simply not something I would expect from someone who displays such artistry during the program.
Yes, she made that face yesterday, which WAS cute and honest.

When it comes to Yuna, I've always been puzzled about that since the first time I saw her skate three years ago.
Now that she is seventeen and a relative veteran, I wish she would learn to bow a bit more elegantly, but that's just my wish and my PROBLEM.

 

[Andalusia]

I don't think Caroline will have Yu-na's lines or the way she carries herself when she's seventeen.

Okay, you've obviously made it pretty clear who you're rooting for. You wouldn't happen to be myredsoul on YouTube, would you?

I think Yu-Na's wonderful, too, but no way does she possess better line than Caroline, or even Michelle for that matter. She has her free leg in an ugly position when she does her layback, and her current spiral sequence, while improved, still looks unfinished to me. Someone compared the quality of her current spiral to Kwan's, which I think is a joke. Her leg is still raised at a level that doesn't suggest better line, although she had greatly improved her speed and doesn't wobble as much. Just look at Caroline's and Yu-Na's SPs at CoC, and you'll see there's just no comparison. What Yu-Na has in spades that Caroline needs to work on are height in jumps, overall speed, and effortless transitioning into each element. Caroline is three years younger than Yu-Na; hopefully, that is enough time for her to at least approach Yu-Na in those respects.

I also find it strange that you say Caroline strikes you as an American girl. Uh, she is an American girl. Are you suggesting that East Asian girls somehow move, or skate better, than American girls? And you go on to say that Mao and Yu-Na possess grace and delicacy with equal parts steely determination and strength; I always thought Michelle was well-known for displaying all those qualities in her best performances. I think Caroline exhibits these traits as well.

 

[fourclover]

Okay, you've obviously made it pretty clear who you're rooting for. You wouldn't happen to be myredsoul on YouTube, would you?

I think Yu-Na's wonderful, too, but no way does she possess better line than Caroline, or even Michelle for that matter. She has her free leg in an ugly position when she does her layback, and her current spiral sequence, while improved, still looks unfinished to me. Someone compared the quality of her current spiral to Kwan's, which I think is a joke. Her leg is still raised at a level that doesn't suggest better line, although she had greatly improved her speed and doesn't wobble as much. Just look at Caroline's and Yu-Na's SPs at CoC, and you'll see there's just no comparison. What Yu-Na has in spades that Caroline needs to work on are height in jumps, overall speed, and effortless transitioning into each element. Caroline is three years younger than Yu-Na; hopefully, that is enough time for her to at least approach Yu-Na in those respects.

I also find it strange that you say Caroline strikes you as an American girl. Uh, she is an American girl. Are you suggesting that East Asian girls somehow move, or skate better, than American girls? And you go on to say that Mao and Yu-Na possess grace and delicacy with equal parts steely determination and strength; I always thought Michelle was well-known for displaying all those qualities in her best performances. I think Caroline exhibits these traits as well.

I guess we are referring to different things when you say "line" than I do. Since you seem to have more technical knowledge of how body positions should be in various sequences, you are probably right that Caroline is better in those respects. What I meant by line was quite different but who cares.

Also, I never once thought Michelle Kwan was "graceful" or "delicate", expressive, yes, but not graceful and definitely not delicate. As far as determination goes, you could see it wide open on Michelle's face before she skated - determined eyes, pursed lips, etc. - but that's not the kind of stoic determination I'm talking about in Yuna. And yes, Caroline is almost like a little Michelle in that respect and that's an ENTIRELY different thing than what Yu-na is about.

 

[fourclover]

Okay, you've obviously made it pretty clear who you're rooting for. You wouldn't happen to be myredsoul on YouTube, would you?

I think Yu-Na's wonderful, too, but no way does she possess better line than Caroline, or even Michelle for that matter. She has her free leg in an ugly position when she does her layback, and her current spiral sequence, while improved, still looks unfinished to me. Someone compared the quality of her current spiral to Kwan's, which I think is a joke. Her leg is still raised at a level that doesn't suggest better line, although she had greatly improved her speed and doesn't wobble as much. Just look at Caroline's and Yu-Na's SPs at CoC, and you'll see there's just no comparison. What Yu-Na has in spades that Caroline needs to work on are height in jumps, overall speed, and effortless transitioning into each element. Caroline is three years younger than Yu-Na; hopefully, that is enough time for her to at least approach Yu-Na in those respects.

I also find it strange that you say Caroline strikes you as an American girl. Uh, she is an American girl. Are you suggesting that East Asian girls somehow move, or skate better, than American girls? And you go on to say that Mao and Yu-Na possess grace and delicacy with equal parts steely determination and strength; I always thought Michelle was well-known for displaying all those qualities in her best performances. I think Caroline exhibits these traits as well.

by the way, i'm not myredsoul on youtube.

 

[krenseby]

Also, I never once thought Michelle Kwan was "graceful" or "delicate", expressive, yes, but not graceful and definitely not delicate. As far as determination goes, you could see it wide open on Michelle's face before she skated - determined eyes, pursed lips

I agree with you fourclover. Kwan epitomized the athlete who was out to demonstrate a show of strength....... She might have been very polite and mealy-mouthed in interview, but when it comes to skating, she was as tough and rugged as they get. (Of course, this point obviously got lost on Condi Rice.)

 

[Andalusia]

I agree with you fourclover. Kwan epitomized the athlete who was out to demonstrate a show of strength....... She might have been very polite and mealy-mouthed in interview, but when it comes to skating, she was as tough and rugged as they get. (Of course, this point obviously got lost on Condi Rice.)

She might have been out to demonstrate that, I agree, but to say that Michelle Kwan was a graceless skater is a load of rubbish, IMHO. She might not be as fragile-looking as Yu-Na, but she could be graceful and delicate when required, as demonstrated by her Lyra Angelica program and others. I agree this wasn't so apparent in her post-2003 programs. You can't tell me that her 1998 World Pros performance to EoE was devoid of grace. One doesn't accumulate the most sixes for artistic impression in figure skating history by being a graceless skater.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lTcimzNnU40

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dM914737BMM

Graceless, my foot!

 

[krenseby]

She might have been out to demonstrate that, I agree, but to say that Michelle Kwan was a graceless skater is a load of rubbish, IMHO. She might not be as fragile-looking as Yu-Na, but she could be graceful and delicate when required, as demonstrated by her Lyra Angelica program and others. I agree this wasn't so apparent in her post-2003 programs. You can't tell me that her 1998 World Pros performance to EoE was devoid of grace. One doesn't accumulate the most sixes for artistic impression in figure skating history by being a graceless skater.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=lTcimzNnU40

http://youtube.com/watch?v=dM914737BMM

Graceless, my foot!

Well, I am sorry, but where is the assumption coming from that an athletic skater can't also be graceful at the same time? What I meant is that Michelle wasn't some delicate flower who didn't have athletic power.

 

[Andalusia]

I also have to say that after watching her LP at CoC, I don't think Yu-Na is a particularly graceful skater. I think she uses her arms the best out of anyone else there is, and I think she possesses musicality, but many of her positions are actually quite sloppy and unfinished. Nowhere near the category of Emily Hughes, but not even close to being sufficiently Sashaesque. Yu-Na does, however, land her jumps very lightly and gracefully.

Come to think of it, Mao is much more graceful in terms of positions than Yu-Na is.

 

[Andalusia]

Well, I am sorry, but where is the assumption coming from that an athletic skater can't also be graceful at the same time? What I meant is that Michelle wasn't some delicate flower who didn't have athletic power.

I'm sorry, I wasn't referring to what you said directly. I was referring to what fourclover said, which was an explicit statement of how Michelle had no grace or delicacy whatsoever.

 

[Mathman]

I think Caroline will be more like Michelle Kwan than Yu-na as she grows up.

Ah. You think Caroline will be World Champion at 15. She will win five world championships, two Olympic medals and 9 U.S. championships, and she will stand on the World podium 9 straight times.

Caroline fans hope you're right!

 

[fourclover]

I also have to say that after watching her LP at CoC, I don't think Yu-Na is a particularly graceful skater. I think she uses her arms the best out of anyone else there is, and I think she possesses musicality, but many of her positions are actually quite sloppy and unfinished. Nowhere near the category of Emily Hughes, but not even close to being sufficiently Sashaesque. Yu-Na does, however, land her jumps very lightly and gracefully.

Come to think of it, Mao is much more graceful in terms of positions than Yu-Na is.

so... you are saying Emily Hughes is more graceful than Yu-na???? I think Yu-na will refine her program as she moves along the season. I noticed she was skating very slooow and tentatively in her LP. And yeah, I agree about Mao, you can definitely tell she had ballet training background and I don't think anybody comes even close to Mao (not Sasha, pleeeez) when it comes to ballerina-like grace. I think Yu-na's grace comes more from her body-type and long arms. Michelle had neither imho. The grace and elegance I'm talking about has little to do with skating positions than the way they carry themselves and move across the ice. It's not something that's acquired by practicing and training but something you are born with.