Nathan Chen issues apology for interview

[anonymoose_au]

Again, no. There is no excuse for repeatedly generalizing and shaming an entire fan base because of wackos, no matter how numerous they are. If a fanbase is big, there will logically be more loud crazies in it. As simple as that. That still doesn't mean *they* are the entire fanbase, and that it is in any way okay to suggest that the fanbase deserved being attacked, like you are just doing.

Sorry, you're right.

Sometimes I feel like the "non-crazy" fans should stand up to the "crazy" ones and call them out. But that's not fair, since they're not going to listen.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular, but the thing is this was an interview about Nathan and HIS experiences. It seems hypocrital that there's this big call these days for people to "Express their truth and be respected for it" but then next second declare only "certain truths" are allowed. Nathan was picked on for being a skater and assumed to be a certain way because of the sport he does. Doesn't he have the right to express that? Just because you're in the majority most of the time doesn't mean you are ALL of the time and that prejudice can't happen to you.

Another example is Evan Lysachek who was accused of being in the closet for years and/or a self-hating gay man. The only reason? He's a figure skater so he MUST be gay. He married a woman recently, but there's people out there who still think he's gay and attack him for "living a lie". It's gross.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

The hockey question was provocative or insulting to Asian male skaters, which is why Chen brought up the fact that he is a heterosexual skater in an angry manner. TSL should have never asked the insensitive question as we all know that he is a former gymnast who makes full use of his gymnastic skills for figure skating. Playing ice hockey is not a very attractive option for Japanese or Taiwanese athletes because they can never beat big Russian hockey players, while they can be dominant in gymnastics or figure skating.

The reference to Asian men playing hockey isn't a great one and I'd like to respectfully disagree. There have been many very successful Asian men in the NHL and minor leagues; I'm not going to sit here and name them all but Paul Kariya, anyone? Nick Suzuki, Kailer Yamamoto, Jamie Storr, Matt Dumba??! It's quite off the mark and insensitive to assume what was written above about Russian hockey players even, they aren't all big, powerful brutes.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I am really on the fence about this. Maybe he should have just said he supports all the skaters and left it right there. I remember this conversation when Michael Weiss got Married. People just figured that all skaters were gay and all he said was "Well, I'm Not" Good Grief, you'd have thought he robbed a bank for all the backlash he received. Why do people ask questions if they're not ready to hear an honest answer. I can't believe this is a big deal.....

Honestly, the question shouldn't even be asked, ever. Personally, it doesn't and wouldn't change my opinion of someone.

 

[mrrice]

Honestly, the question shouldn't even be asked, ever. Personally, it doesn't and wouldn't change my opinion of someone.

I agree 100%. If a skater wants to Come Out like Jason and other skaters, that's fine. This is a highly personal issue and does not belong in a casual interview.

 

[el henry]

I am really on the fence about this. Maybe he should have just said he supports all the skaters and left it right there. I remember this conversation when Michael Weiss got Married. People just figured that all skaters were gay and all he said was "Well, I'm Not" Good Grief, you'd have thought he robbed a bank for all the backlash he received. Why do people ask questions if they're not ready to hear an honest answer. I can't believe this is a big deal.....

Really? I have a completely different memory, but I admit I was not following intently and could have missed quite a few things,

I remember it being mentioned, time and again and time and again by commentators: oh Michael Weiss. Oh look at his wife. Oh look at his children.

Now Michael Weiss I am sure had and has a lovely wife and children. But I am convinced that is not the reason that on television we were hammered over the head with his wife and kids. The subtext was: Look at Michael Weiss, See all figure skaters aren't gay! (ETA: I am not saying Michael did this, I'm saying it was used that way).

In the fifty years I have been watching men's FS, there has always been an attempt to "butch it up", whether saying it out loud, or more usually, subtext: Christopher Bowman, loved by the ladies and loves the ladies!, etc.

Jumping off and not directed at you, Mr Rice, and then unless I have something new to say, I will stop: for me, supporting Nathan Chen means supporting that he made the right decision when he apologized. If the same thing happened to Jason (Jason says, oh figure skating has a lot of cats and I don't have cats, I like dogs) and then Jason apologized for hurting people who liked cats, and people started going, oh, he shouldn't have apologized, oh, it wasn't that bad, oh, why are people so sensitive that they can't they understand Jason really loves cats, that's not supporting Jason, that's undercutting him. I would be beating people around the head with the cyber cane if they complained about Jason apologizing

That does not mean accepting people calling someone names, either before or after an apology.

 

[mrrice]

Really? I have a completely different memory, but I admit I was not following intently and could have missed quite a few things,

I remember it being mentioned, time and again and time and again by commentators: oh Michael Weiss. Oh look at his wife. Oh look at his children.

Now Michael Weiss I am sure had and has a lovely wife and children. But I am convinced that is not the reason that on television we were hammered over the head with his wife and kids. The subtext was: Look at Michael Weiss, See all figure skaters aren't gay! (ETA: I am not saying Michael did this, I'm saying it was used that way).

In the fifty years I have been watching men's FS, there has always been an attempt to "butch it up", whether saying it out loud, or more usually, subtext: Christopher Bowman, loved by the ladies and loves the ladies!, etc.

Jumping off and not directed at you, Mr Rice, and then unless I have something new to say, I will stop: for me, supporting Nathan Chen means supporting that he made the right decision when he apologized. If the same thing happened to Jason (Jason says, oh figure skating has a lot of cats and I don't have cats, I like dogs) and then Jason apologized for hurting people who liked cats, and people started going, oh, he shouldn't have apologized, oh, it wasn't that bad, oh, why are people so sensitive that they can't they understand Jason really loves cats, that's not supporting Jason, that's undercutting him. I would be beating people around the head with the cybe rcane if they complained about Jason apologizing

That does not mean accepting people calling someone names, either before or after an apology.

I completely agree. I don't think ANY skater is comfortable talking about such a personal issue. You could tell that Michael was like "Who Cares" when he was asked the question. It's such a non issue when it comes to competition or performing in general.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I don’t condone Nathan’s initial statement but this actually happens in skating ALL the time where straight guys always have to choose between being perceived as vehemently straight (and consequently homophobic) or be deemed as gay (which there is still a stigma, let’s be honest). His reaction could have been better “I don’t like being labeled as definitely gay, the same way a gay person who plays [insert classically “straight” sport] wouldn’t want to be assumed as definitely straight”.

I have grown up skating with many straight men who have expressed concern at being misidentified as gay... and I always correct people who are like “oh he’s a figure skater, he’s in denial.” And I tell you, as much as I struggled with being a gay man in a sport where there is a stigma to being gay, I can only imagine how it must be for straight men in a sport where you’re assumed to be gay. As much progress as there has been, the reality is there is still very much a stigma of being gay, and it is unfair to expect a straight person to be all like “oh it’s all good if you think I’m gay”. Call me an apologist (as I said I don’t condone the quote and clearly based on the apology neither does he) but it’s not easy playing a sport with gender or sexuality “norms”. I know plenty of guys who have almost quit the sport because of the jeering. So while I appreciate Nathan’s apology and don’t support his initial comments, I cut him a load of slack (and would for any other skater who messed up but then sincerely apologized, before y’all go *there*).

And, real tea, there are opportunistic people who will jump on Nathan, even post apology, because there’s a 2022 gold medal on the line and they don’t actually care about the LGBT community. Y’all know who you are, and shame on you.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Honestly, the question shouldn't even be asked, ever. Personally, it doesn't and wouldn't change my opinion of someone.

Agreed. It’s only asked because if the interviewee doesn’t answer perfectly neutrally about being straight but ok with gay people its a scandal and if they answer they are gay it’s newsworthy like they’ve been hiding it and the media pulled it out of them by asking. I hate that the media still commoditizes sexuality. Nobody probes skaters asking them if they are straight (which of course they should not do either).

 

[el henry]

.....

And, real tea, there are opportunistic people who will jump on Nathan, even post apology, because there’s a 2022 gold medal on the line and they don’t actually care about the LGBT community. Y’all know who you are, and shame on you.

Here, or on the hot mess that is Twitter?

Because we've already pretty definitively established that no *here* is saying anything negative about Nathan because there is a "Gold Medal on the line". ETA: So saying "shame on you" doesn't do anything, because no one here has done anything of which to be ashamed.

So yay for everyone at Goldenskatel

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Here, or on the hot mess that is Twitter?

Because we've already pretty definitively established that no *here* is saying anything negative about Nathan because there is a "Gold Medal on the line".

So yay for everyone at Goldenskate, no shame at all

Oh I totally meant the hot messes on Twitter and/or other forums, but also directed towards anyone here if there’s folks who happen to ascribe to that line of thinking. Of course, everyone who has responded in this thread isn’t representative of everyone at GS, for better or worse. Venn diagrams and all. Many of them can’t speak for gay people, and their lived experience, in this sport or otherwise, nor should they attempt to. (Oh and they can feel free to screencap/blog/rant about me if they see this. More power to me, I guess. )


If it was anyone other than the OGM fave, half of them wouldn’t even care. But hey, have at it! It’s the pre-Olympics off-season and they’ve gotta lay the groundwork and need stuff to latch onto, right?!

 

[el henry]

Oh I totally meant the hot messes on Twitter and/or other forums, but also directed towards anyone here if there’s folks who happen to ascribe to that line of thinking. Of course, everyone who has responded in this thread isn’t representative of everyone at GS, for better or worse. Venn diagrams and all. Many of them can’t speak for gay people, and their lived experience, in this sport or otherwise, nor should they attempt to. Oh and they can feel free to screencap/blog/rant about me if they see this. I love it, of course.


If it was anyone other than the OGM fave, half of them wouldn’t even care. But hey, have at it! It’s the pre-Olympics off-season and they’ve gotta lay the groundwork and need stuff to latch onto, right?!

Thanks for answering. For better or worse I appear to be mired in this thread, so I think I can say that I have seen no one on Goldenskate come close to the land of the thousand hot takes. If someone doesn't care to show themselves here, well, too bad, I'm not assuming they're there.

I do think some people were actually really hurt by Nathan's comments, they had no agenda, they weren't superfans of a particular rival of Nathan's, and I think that's who his apology was directed to. ( And it wasn't *just* the remarks about gays, I remember something about "females", and as a "female" I did think, wow, that wasn't the world's best phraseology. But I sure didn't care enough to tweet about it. Then again, there are very few things I care enough about to tweet )

Of course, not every gay person is going to feel the same way, just like not every straight person is going to feel the same way. Pretty dull world if we did.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

That’s fair and I get if someone felt hurt and I’m glad he apologized (many haven’t, see Yagudin/Joubert, ick) and admitted to not handling it properly.

Thanks for answering. For better or worse I appear to be mired in this thread, so I think I can say that I have seen no one on Goldenskate come close to the land of the thousand hot takes. If someone doesn't care to show themselves here, well, too bad, I'm not assuming they're there.

I do think some people were actually really hurt by Nathan's comments, they had no agenda, they weren't superfans of a particular rival of Nathan's, and I think that's who his apology was directed to. ( And it wasn't *just* the remarks about gays, I remember something about "females", and as a "female" I did think, wow, that wasn't the world's best phraseology. But I sure didn't care enough to tweet about it. Then again, there are very few things I care enough about to tweet )

Of course, not every gay person is going to feel the same way, just like not every straight person is going to feel the same way. Pretty dull world if we did.

I think Nathan was speaking a legitimate truth that, as a straight guy in figure skating, his sexuality is under constant scrutiny and skepticism, and he faces ridicule for being a man in a sport that is typically viewed as “feminine”. How he articulated it though was wrong and he unequivocally apologized for it. But the truth is, part of him IS uncomfortable having to own his straightness in a sport that, comparatively, IS queer-dominated. And no amount of coaching him to say the perfectly correct answer when asked about his sexuality will change that. I get skaters have a platform to do good but I would rather a skater be honest if questioning their sexuality actually affects them rather than a rehearsed, “Oh it doesn’t faze me if you think I’m gay”. The reality is, when anyone has their sexuality questioned, it is uncomfortable. Especially if they are in a sport in which there is a certain stereotype or expectation of who they are, when it is not the case. I think he has a right to say “I’m straight. And it bothers me that you think I’m not just because I’m a figure skater.”

While the way Chen expressed it is disappointing because we all hope people say the optimal thing, it’s no surprise (at least based on my own experience with friends who are straight males in skating) that he feels that way in general. I think he’s taken it as a learning experience about how to address the topic when asked, but deep down, part of him is still understandably perturbed by the notion of his sexuality being questioned simply because he’s doing the sport he loves (which of course is the dilemma for many closeted athletes in sports where they are putatively “supposed” to be “straight”). Part of me takes issue with the people who assume I’m straight when I’m not, so I can empathize with someone who people might assume is gay but isn’t. And as I said, figure skating is a safe space for me as a gay person even when I was not out because I knew it was more queer-friendly than a lot of other sports... but it wasn’t always a safe space for my straight male friends who I skated with because people constantly said they were gay or in denial, which truly sucks and is an unwarranted distraction when pursuing your passion.

 

[eppen]

The whole post

Thanks for voicing your experience - I can imagine it applies to a lot of other guys as well. Having loved and followed men's figure skating for over four decades now, I am thankful for every guy having held on to their sport despite peer pressure to drop it and feel sad for all those who did not have the strength to resist.

In the 1992 Olympics press conference, the men's figure skating medalists were asked point blank whether they were gay or not. I remember this because the biggest newspaper wrote it up, heartily disapproving the question, BUT also publishing their replies verbatim. That was ofc 1992, almost a different universe, but that the issue of sexual orientation still gets to be a talking point with male figure skaters feels more than a little sad. (In 2011, Mary Louise Adams published a book about it, Artistic Impressions: Figure Skating, Masculinity, and the Limits of Sport.)

That said, I was at first a bit surprised that Nathan did not have some kind of prepared reply for that - similar questions must have been asked before? Then I started wondering about this, because my surpise was partly based upon reading/watching/listening every interview Javier Fernández has ever made (and I could get my hands on). He has been asked similar questions, usually phrased to concern bullying by his peers because he was skating instead of playing football. It has come up pretty regularly, maybe once a season on average.

Does the media in the rest of the world do that a lot still? I could not imagine Russian or Japanese guys getting asked anything like that.

Also, who gets those questions? Is it the guys who the journalists think are straight or gay?

E

[Just as a side issue here, Javi's media mess at Sochi was sometimes referred to in the Twitter discussion (and also mentioned in thie thread) and I had to remind myself what happened. Before the competition he gave an interview to a Spanish paper, El Mundo, and it was published in Spanish. He was asked about the Russian antigay legistlation and he replied "The Games are about sport and not politics. I have my opinions and I don't get involved in what others think, but I think whether we like it or not, we have to respect the laws of the countries we visit. It's not such a big dilemma. It's better that homosexuals lie low a bit during the Games and then afterwards they can get on with their lives." (Translation from The Guardian.) Perhaps not the best choice of words there. That was obviously not received very well in Spain/Spanish speaking world. He has said that he even got death threats. I don't know how much of it was in Spanish and whether it crossed over to the English side. But that remark comes back regularly, in interviews, in the social media etc. Most recently a few days before the Nathan story, maybe triggered by the start of the Olympics? I suspect it will be dug up every now and then for the rest of his life.]

 

[karne]

My basic summary:

A bad answer to a badly-worded question. Honestly, the question was so poorly worded it almost looks like they set out to trap him. Nathan's answer was extremely poorly worded, not at all how it ought to have been answered, but I can understand how he was thrown off by the question.

Nobody noticed.

A few people from a certain subsection of the fandom found the interview, recognised the poor answer, and saw an opportunity to try and take him down (and we know why). They then proceeded to whip it up into a frenzy, until it got to this point.

 

[nussnacker]

My basic summary:

A bad answer to a badly-worded question. Honestly, the question was so poorly worded it almost looks like they set out to trap him. Nathan's answer was extremely poorly worded, not at all how it ought to have been answered, but I can understand how he was thrown off by the question.

Nobody noticed.

A few people from a certain subsection of the fandom found the interview, recognised the poor answer, and saw an opportunity to try and take him down (and we know why). They then proceeded to whip it up into a frenzy, until it got to this point.

Pretty much how I see it as well…

It’s hard to say that there are people right now who are completely void of any internalized homophobia and I certainly wouldn’t say Nathan is, and that he as a straight guy understands everything that a non-straight guy would go through.
But to me Nathan looks like a genuinely good guy, who didn’t mean to say or do anything bad towards LGBTQ community.

I think it’s great that he addressed it instead of ignoring it, but part of me thinks that criticism from some people towards him wasn’t coming out of a good place, rather someone noticing he made a mistake and just wanting to make a scandal out of it.

 

[noskates]

Perhaps a better answer to any question about a skater's sexual preferences is : what does that have to do with my skating!

 

[TontoK]

Perhaps a better answer to any question about a skater's sexual preferences is : what does that have to do with my skating!

This is a good answer. I'm very Libertarian in my views on this. I don't care who someone else is having sex with, so long as everyone is a live, consenting, human adult.

 

[el henry]

My basic summary:

A bad answer to a badly-worded question. Honestly, the question was so poorly worded it almost looks like they set out to trap him. Nathan's answer was extremely poorly worded, not at all how it ought to have been answered, but I can understand how he was thrown off by the question.

Nobody noticed.

A few people from a certain subsection of the fandom found the interview, recognised the poor answer, and saw an opportunity to try and take him down (and we know why). They then proceeded to whip it up into a frenzy, until it got to this point.

I am sorry, it was not a “certain section of the fandom” who were the only folks to raise questions. They were not the only folks to “whip anything into a frenzy”. I saw plenty who were not from that fandom. I am not saying that some criticism did not come from a tiny subset of that fandom, I am saying it is not the only source.

Jumping off and not directed at you, I wish folks would just listen to Nathan, instead of imposing their own world view on him.

Nathan thought his words were poorly chosen. Nathan said he never wanted to imply that FS was dominated by gays. Nathan said he could see where his words hurt some members of the LGBTQI+ community.

Why would anyone want to attack Nathan by disagreeing with him?

 

[4everchan]

sigh... you know... it's not Nathan who should apologize. It's the people who ask these questions. They are the ones with ill-perceptions and lack of intellect. They are the ones making discriminatory insinuations. Leave Nathan alone and bash the journalists if you want my opinion. Not every young straight man has the tools to answer such stupid questions. An old (well not as old as some of you here) gay man like me may be stunned by such questioning and not give the best possible and caring answer either.. it is such an old-fashioned way of thinking... . What Nathan did well, is to recognize that he had to own his lack of experience and knowledge on the topic, and his apology seems very heartfelt and genuine...and also, well informed. To the journalists who still ask those questions : OMG ! Time to educate yourselves !

 

[fallingsk8er]

Well, I’m gay and me and my partner watched the interview twice and couldn’t figure out what Nathan was apologizing for. He’s got a lot of poise for someone so young. He’s so very impressive. I’m team Nathan all the way on this!