2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating | Page 127 | Golden Skate

2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

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lurkerghost1 said:
Thank you @Fluture for explaining exactly why it’s obvious Samodelkina will get a 2nd spot. There are only 6 spots left so if they want an all-Russian JGPF no one new will be getting a spot.

As for the fantastic performances today, it’s made me more excited than ever for senior nationals this year. The expected roster can be:
  1. Shcherbakova
  2. Valieva
  3. Trusova
  4. Tuktamysheva
  5. Kostornaia
  6. Khromykh
  7. Usacheva
  8. Sinitsyna
  9. Samodurova
  10. Akatieva
  11. Samodelkina
  12. Zinina
  13. Muravyeva
  14. Petrosyan
with 4 spots remaining for Nugumanova, Frolova, Guliakova, Tsibinova, Shulskaya, Berestovskaya, Zakharova, Molchanova, Onnichinkova, etc.
Anyone who makes the top 12 would be good enough to make the podium in any other country including Japan.

And lastly between these 6 juniors (3x Sofia + Veronika + Nastya Z + Adelia) the competition for the junior world team will be just as fierce as the senior Olympic team. Looks a like a great season coming up!
Click to expand...
11 out of that list will be either doing a quad or a 3A. If Berestovskaya and Zakharova make it, it’s 13 girls attempting these jumps.
 
nussnacker said:
11 out of that list will be either doing a quad or a 3A. If Berestovskaya and Zakharova make it, it’s 13 girls attempting these jumps.
Click to expand...
When i think that just 4 years ago layouts like Medvedeva's was judged ambitious, because of two 3-3s (3F-3T / 3S-3T)......
A 3lz-3lo isn't a big advantage anymore (speaking of that it's a bit surprising that Shcherbakova is the only one to do that now).
Rippons on triples were seen as HARD, now there are rippons on quads as if it isn't a big deal.
 
yume said:
When i think that just 4 years ago layouts like Medvedeva's was judged ambitious, because of two 3-3s (3F-3T / 3S-3T)......
A 3lz-3lo isn't a big advantage anymore (speaking of that it's a bit surprising that Shcherbakova is the only one to do that now).
Rippons on triples were seen as HARD, now there are rippons on quads as if it isn't a big deal.
Click to expand...
I think 3Lz-3Lo should really be worth more considering how much harder it seems to be than 3Lz-3T - I was so disappointed when Sasha stopped jumping it. Hopefully Petrosyan lands it at her next JGP!
 
RatedPG said:
OMG! This means that there are only 4 spots up for grabs in the Russian Cup Series. Wow! 😮
Click to expand...
Yes, it will be just like 2019, the toughest nationals to date. Only 4 spots from RC back then, but then due to two WDs, 6 got into nationals.

But, Elizaveta Shilenko, Anastasia Gracheva, Ksenia Sinitsyna, Serafima Sakhanovich, Ksenia Tsibinova all missed out. And they all scored 190+ at the Russian Cup. And remember, this was before the quad revolution, only Shcherbakova and Trusova did quads back then. So scores over 190 should have made it.
 
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yume said:
When i think that just 4 years ago layouts like Medvedeva's was judged ambitious, because of two 3-3s (3F-3T / 3S-3T)......
A 3lz-3lo isn't a big advantage anymore (speaking of that it's a bit surprising that Shcherbakova is the only one to do that now).
Rippons on triples were seen as HARD, now there are rippons on quads as if it isn't a big deal.
Click to expand...
3Lz-3Lo actually IS a big advantage - even a huge advantage - in a program with multiple quads, depending on the layout. With Akatieva's layout, it's the difference between 3T and 3Lz, so 1.7 points. That's the standard advantage it gives.

However, it's an even greater advantage when you get to the more extreme ranges of difficulty and want to repeat two quads(or 3A). Let's use this layout as an example:

4T+3T
3A+1Eu+3S
4S
3F
-
4T
3A
3Lz+3Lo

What's the alternative? It'll be something like turning your two jump combos into 4T+2T and 3Lz+3T, which costs some 3.7 points or some such.

That's why having a +3Lo combo is quite strong and probably a little underrated in relation to quads, since the +3Lo combo could actually be worth the same as having one extra quad.


But also, that issue's somewhat bypassed by the fact that many of these girls can jump so many different quads. Although, I think Trusova is already running into it, isn't she? If she repeats 4T and 4Lz. In that case, she could add an extra quad's worth in points by adding the +3Lo.
 
Shayuki said:
However, it's an even greater advantage when you get to the more extreme ranges of difficulty and want to repeat two quads(or 3A). Let's use this layout as an example:

4T+3T
3A+1Eu+3S
4S
3F
-
4T
3A
3Lz+3Lo
Click to expand...
Yeah, or this I made for Valieva last season (replace 3S with 4S and swap around with the preceding 4T when trying to make it consistent, as she must be this season):

4T+2T
3A
4T
3S
3Lz+3Lo x
3Lz+3T+2Lo x
3F x
Click to expand...
 
Shayuki said:
3Lz-3Lo actually IS a big advantage - even a huge advantage - in a program with multiple quads, depending on the layout. With Akatieva's layout, it's the difference between 3T and 3Lz, so 1.7 points. That's the standard advantage it gives.

However, it's an even greater advantage when you get to the more extreme ranges of difficulty and want to repeat two quads(or 3A). Let's use this layout as an example:

4T+3T
3A+1Eu+3S
4S
3F
-
4T
3A
3Lz+3Lo

What's the alternative? It'll be something like turning your two jump combos into 4T+2T and 3Lz+3T, which costs some 3.7 points or some such.

That's why having a +3Lo combo is quite strong and probably a little underrated in relation to quads, since the +3Lo combo could actually be worth the same as having one extra quad.


But also, that issue's somewhat bypassed by the fact that many of these girls can jump so many different quads. Although, I think Trusova is already running into it, isn't she? If she repeats 4T and 4Lz. In that case, she could add an extra quad's worth in points by adding the +3Lo.
Click to expand...
I reformulate. 3lz-3lo ONLY isn't a big advantage anymore. As in a only triples free program as Zagitova's.
 
yume said:
I reformulate. 3lz-3lo ONLY isn't a big advantage anymore. As in a only triples free program as Zagitova's.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that's when it's almost useless. 1.1 points I think. But the more quads you have the better it becomes. Even with 1 quad it already is at the 1.7 points.

It's a pretty interesting dynamic, caused by the fact that the higher value the rest of your elements are, the worse it is to double 3T. Reaching max value when you'd double two quad/3As.
 
nussnacker said:
11 out of that list will be either doing a quad or a 3A. If Berestovskaya and Zakharova make it, it’s 13 girls attempting these jumps.
Click to expand...
I wonder if Berestovskaia will compete at Russian Cup, since she will only be 14 in December. She's a very realistic candidate to qualify if she does. Other possible qualifiers IMO would be Zakharova, Frolova, Nugumanova.

Can't wait for Nationals! Not only because of Olympic spot drama, but for the amazing field too.
 
We really need a Seasons Best List Top 24 update! (after 6 out of 29 events)

1. Sofia Akatieva (J) - Rus - 233.08 JGP Krasnoyarsk (junior world record)
2. Alysa Liu - USA - 219.24 CS Lombardia Trophy
3. Veronika Zhilina (J) - Rus - 216.92 JGP Kosice
4. Sofia Muravieva - Rus - 208.25 JGP Kosice
5. Anastasia Zinina - Rus - 206.20 JGP Krasnoyarsk
6. Sofia Samodelkina - Rus - 202.39 JGP Krasnoyarsk
7. Isabeau Levito - USA - 202.35 JGP Courchevel II
8. Adelia Petrosian - Rus - 201.21 JGP Kosice
9. Elizaveta Kulikova (J) - Rus - 196.83 JGP Krasnoyarsk
10. Elizaveta Berestovskaya (J) - Rus - 196.07 JGP Krasnoyarsk
11. Chaeyeon Kim - Kor - 191.46 JGP Courchevel II
12. Maria Zakharova (J) - Rus - 190.33 JGP Kosice
13. Ekaterina Kurakova - Pol - 187.65 CS Lombardia Trophy
14. Lindsay Thorngren - USA - 181.45 JGP Courchevel
15. Marilena Kitromilis - Cyp - 180.72 CS Autumn Classic
16. Young You - Kor - 180.25 CS Autumn Classic
17. Kaiya Ruiter - Can - 179.92 JGP Courchevel II
18. Ava Marie Ziegler - USA - 176.29 JGP Kosice
19. Clare Seo - USA - 174.80 JGP Courchevel
20. Seoyeon Ji - Kor - 173.69 CS Autumn Classic
21. Karen Chen - USA - 173.00 CS Autumn Classic
22. Audrey Shin - USA - 172.46 CS Lombardia Trophy
23. Alexia Paganini - Sui - 171.48 CS Lombardia Trophy
24. Kate Wang - USA - 170.93 JGP Krasnoyarsk
-----------------------------------------------------

Top 24 are guaranteed a spot at next year's senior GPs, except for (J).
The top 24 usually cuts around 200 points, so all below that will probably fall out.
 
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lurkerghost1 said:
Thank you @Fluture for explaining exactly why it’s obvious Samodelkina will get a 2nd spot. There are only 6 spots left so if they want an all-Russian JGPF no one new will be getting a spot.

As for the fantastic performances today, it’s made me more excited than ever for senior nationals this year. The expected roster can be:
  1. Shcherbakova
  2. Valieva
  3. Trusova
  4. Tuktamysheva
  5. Kostornaia
  6. Khromykh
  7. Usacheva
  8. Sinitsyna
  9. Samodurova
  10. Akatieva
  11. Samodelkina
  12. Zinina
  13. Muravyeva
  14. Petrosyan
with 4 spots remaining for Nugumanova, Frolova, Guliakova, Tsibinova, Shulskaya, Berestovskaya, Zakharova, Molchanova, Onnichinkova, etc.
Anyone who makes the top 12 would be good enough to make the podium in any other country including Japan.

And lastly between these 6 juniors (3x Sofia + Veronika + Nastya Z + Adelia) the competition for the junior world team will be just as fierce as the senior Olympic team. Looks a like a great season coming up!
Click to expand...
Has RusFed changed the selection rules again? Last season only those who were 14 by 1 July were allowed to participate in Nationals.
 
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ruga said:
I think the limit is just 14, because Aliona participated in Nationals while still a junior twice.
Click to expand...
Yes, there is no 1 July thingy here. You have to be 14 at nationals, that's the rule. If that also includes the Russian Cup stages - I don't know.
 
 
Skatesocs said:
I'm going to wish for MAXIMUM CHAOS and hope Akatieva and maybe Petrosyan make the Nationals podium over Olympic candidates :devil:
Click to expand...
It will never happen in an olympic year and even if it did it doesn't mean anything because they can't go to Olympics or senior worlds. You want disarray but the queen of coaches does not. ;)
 
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