Johnny Weir Journal Update !
- Thread starter Geesesk8
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- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
I had formerly said I wasn't going to jump into any more Evan/Johnny forays, but they reach a point and then I have to say something. Could someone qualify for me something that Evan actually said that shows he is really pushing the "masculine" thing too hard? It appears to me that there are too many exagerations and generalizations being made.
I follow Evan's career very closely and have read (and even have saved) most every news article written about him and every interview he has done. What I recall about the "masculine" topic is a discussion where Evan was asked questions about his preference in costuming. He did not say he was trying to make the sport more masculine. He said he preferred more masculine, simple costumes for himself, usually in black, and did not care for a lot of glitter and sequins. He was stating his own preference, which I believe he is entitled to do.
Regarding the Xgames, Evan came up with that idea as a means to broaden interest in the sport to a wider demographic of young people. He did make the comment that most people think of figure skating as a "girlie sport," and I think everyone would have to agree. A boy who chooses figure skating has to be tough and take a lot of hits growing up because of the perceived conception that all figure skaters are gay, which is not true. Not that it even matters. USFSA does not discriminate on the basis of one's sexual identity. There have been and are gay skaters and gay coaches. So what.
Evan does not have to prove anything about his masculinity and he is not constantly talking about it, unless some people on this forum have heard interviews to the contrary. I have on tape every interview that was conducted with Evan last season and masculinity was not the primary subject. If someone has hard evidence to back up the statements being made that Evan is always pushing his masculinity, then I challenge you to produce the quotes.
I also don't understand the nature of this "bad attitude" Evan is supposed to have. Bad attitude towards what? He spent a great deal of time during the COI tour with Tanith visiting ice rinks and skating with children to promote the sport and to promote the show. Those are some of the interviews and video clips that I have saved. They took place in Portland, Colorado, Chicago, Seattle, Harlem, and another in New York, to name a few.
Also, if you recall, Johnny said last season that his choreographer said that he needed to have a more masculine look to his programs. That is why he skated his SP to "King of Chess." Was Johnny trying to push his masculinity? If Evan is being accused of doing it, then why not Johnny? That is one thing that bothers me. There is a double standard when it comes to all things Evan and Johnny.
Finally, Evan hardly needs to make an issue of his masculinity. For heaven's sake, you only need to take one look at Evan and see that he is the hottest thing on ice. It is a wonder that the ice doesn't melt under his skates!!!
Lastly, regarding Johnny and the quad. I also read Johnny's journal and his statement about the quad and how he was no longer going to talk about it. The top men at the GPF, Lambiel, Takahashi, and Lysacek, have all landed the quad combo in competition. Johnny has not even ever tried it. I do not believe that leaves him in a very secure position. His chances of winning with his watered down program are depending on the other men making mistakes and missing the quad, which may or may not happen. All of them have been successful in the past. Evan in particular is 7/2. Those are pretty good odds. Just because Johnny won his two GP assignments does not mean he is "on top." His competitors had much more difficult programs and everybody knows that the GP series are a proving ground to iron out the kinks in one's program and give younger skaters an opportunity to experience international competition.
I follow Evan's career very closely and have read (and even have saved) most every news article written about him and every interview he has done. What I recall about the "masculine" topic is a discussion where Evan was asked questions about his preference in costuming. He did not say he was trying to make the sport more masculine. He said he preferred more masculine, simple costumes for himself, usually in black, and did not care for a lot of glitter and sequins. He was stating his own preference, which I believe he is entitled to do.
Regarding the Xgames, Evan came up with that idea as a means to broaden interest in the sport to a wider demographic of young people. He did make the comment that most people think of figure skating as a "girlie sport," and I think everyone would have to agree. A boy who chooses figure skating has to be tough and take a lot of hits growing up because of the perceived conception that all figure skaters are gay, which is not true. Not that it even matters. USFSA does not discriminate on the basis of one's sexual identity. There have been and are gay skaters and gay coaches. So what.
Evan does not have to prove anything about his masculinity and he is not constantly talking about it, unless some people on this forum have heard interviews to the contrary. I have on tape every interview that was conducted with Evan last season and masculinity was not the primary subject. If someone has hard evidence to back up the statements being made that Evan is always pushing his masculinity, then I challenge you to produce the quotes.
I also don't understand the nature of this "bad attitude" Evan is supposed to have. Bad attitude towards what? He spent a great deal of time during the COI tour with Tanith visiting ice rinks and skating with children to promote the sport and to promote the show. Those are some of the interviews and video clips that I have saved. They took place in Portland, Colorado, Chicago, Seattle, Harlem, and another in New York, to name a few.
Also, if you recall, Johnny said last season that his choreographer said that he needed to have a more masculine look to his programs. That is why he skated his SP to "King of Chess." Was Johnny trying to push his masculinity? If Evan is being accused of doing it, then why not Johnny? That is one thing that bothers me. There is a double standard when it comes to all things Evan and Johnny.
Finally, Evan hardly needs to make an issue of his masculinity. For heaven's sake, you only need to take one look at Evan and see that he is the hottest thing on ice. It is a wonder that the ice doesn't melt under his skates!!!
Lastly, regarding Johnny and the quad. I also read Johnny's journal and his statement about the quad and how he was no longer going to talk about it. The top men at the GPF, Lambiel, Takahashi, and Lysacek, have all landed the quad combo in competition. Johnny has not even ever tried it. I do not believe that leaves him in a very secure position. His chances of winning with his watered down program are depending on the other men making mistakes and missing the quad, which may or may not happen. All of them have been successful in the past. Evan in particular is 7/2. Those are pretty good odds. Just because Johnny won his two GP assignments does not mean he is "on top." His competitors had much more difficult programs and everybody knows that the GP series are a proving ground to iron out the kinks in one's program and give younger skaters an opportunity to experience international competition.
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Weir's points issue isn't that he doesn't have a quad, but that a few top or close-to-the-top skaters -- Joubert, Lambiel, and Verner -- often attempt two (or, at times, three) in their LP. A one-quad differential, especially if his competitors don't have 3A and 3A combinations, isn't that much of a points difference, especially since no skater last year had one quad, 2-3A's, and 3Lz's except Lysacek.
At 2007 Worlds, which was atypical of Joubert last year,
Takahashi and 11th-place Preaubert had quad, 2-3A's, 2-3F's, which is close .
Lambiel had two quads, a 3A, and 2-3T's
Joubert planned two quads, but ended up with 3T/3T, and had 2-3F's
Verner's repeated jump was 4T.
Lysacek had a quad, 2-3A's and 2-3T's
Of the men without quads
Oda had 2-3Lz's and 2-3T's and no 3A's (he had 3-2A's) and he came in 6th.
Berntsson had 2-3A's and 2-3F's
Buttle fell on an underrotated quad attempt and had 2-3A's and 2-3L's
Lindemann and Davydov had 2-3A's
Weir had 2-3T's.
At 2007 Worlds, which was atypical of Joubert last year,
Takahashi and 11th-place Preaubert had quad, 2-3A's, 2-3F's, which is close .
Lambiel had two quads, a 3A, and 2-3T's
Joubert planned two quads, but ended up with 3T/3T, and had 2-3F's
Verner's repeated jump was 4T.
Lysacek had a quad, 2-3A's and 2-3T's
Of the men without quads
Oda had 2-3Lz's and 2-3T's and no 3A's (he had 3-2A's) and he came in 6th.
Berntsson had 2-3A's and 2-3F's
Buttle fell on an underrotated quad attempt and had 2-3A's and 2-3L's
Lindemann and Davydov had 2-3A's
Weir had 2-3T's.
Unfortunately Johnny allowed himself to be convinced last season that he needed to reinvent himself and that masculinity was the key to winning medals. Johnny admitted that his reinvention was a flop which is why he has returned to his roots.
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- Joined
- Mar 17, 2004
In my opinion being a fan does not mean "unconditional" love. Some of Johnny's fans are nuts and want to attack anyone who criticizes their idol in any way.
I love Johnny's skating and consider myself a "real Johnny fan." But Johnny has his good qualities and his flaws, just like everyone else on the planet!
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2004
I'm well aware of that. Every successful skater seems to have some fans who believe "their" skater is absolutely perfect. Some fans are just over the top!
I too live in NYC and am a gay man with a theatre and dance background and what is stated above is accurate in my experience. Re: Evan vs. Johnny, Evan might be doing the same type of this Mike Weiss did (look I'm married with kids and therefore straight, world) or maybe he is on a mission to prove fsing is a real sport in that manly men (LOL) participate in it. Who knows, They are both top-tier skaters and the USFSA should be proud to have them around as athletes.
Johnny has sometimes said and done things that (as a mature gay man) have made me cringe. But it's all part of the growing-up-and -finding-your-place-in-the- world process. In the end, it's seems as though it's as much about one's public persona as it is about one's sexual orientation. I prefer JW's skating to EL's but still wish JW would do one quad in his LP at Worlds and the 2010 Olys. He will not win gold (his stated goal) without it and may not even medal.
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- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
No, he doesn't. Evan wore beautiful costume before which was handsome. Hope you could tell him that next time when you write to him.
Why didn't this kind of controversy go around Alexei Yagudin, Kurt Browning, Brian Joubert, ......? It has a reason which you don't want to face.
I agree about this part.
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2006
Probably he has broader abilities than you, or himself think, but he didn't work hard, didn't have chance to prove it. Imagine those two programs with Galina being his coach.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
Quote
Why didn't this kind of controversy go around Alexei Yagudin, Kurt Browning, Brian Joubert, ......? It has a reason which you don't want to face.
This comment confuses me. What reason would I or anyone else not want to face? I remember back in the late '80's there was constant speculation about the sexual orientation of all of the top skaters such as Paul Wylie, Brian Boitano, Kurt Browning, Brian Orser.....just about all of them. When Paul Wylie brought his girlfriend to the '92 Olympics, there was talk of that being a ruse to prove that he was not gay because Paul had a very "feminine" way of skating. The whole load of crap has been going on forever and is just ridiculous. If everybody would just stop talking about it there wouldn't be a need to prove anything, but, sadly, the public has this negative impression about male figure skaters.
I remember an episode of "Will and Grace," where they were going to an ice show and Jack and was all excited about Rudi Galindo appearing. At the beginning of the show he says, "There's Rudi, he is the gay one." To which Grace replies, "One?" IMO that is an example of what feeds the public impression of male figure skaters and it is totally off base.
I have been involved in the world of figure skating for a long time. I have known gay figure skaters and straight figure skaters, as well as gay coaches and straight coaches. Never did it make any difference to me. I believe Evan's point is not to prove his masculinity, but to build an image of figure skating that will appeal to a broader range of young people in order to get more young people involved. Let's face it, most figure skating classes are filled with girls and the overwhelming majority of compeitions are made up of girls. It is very hard for a promising female skater to find a pair partner or a dance partner because there just aren't many available. It would be nice to see more young boys in the figure skating classes to acutally learn figure skating, and not to go play hockey where they can just play at bashing each other and knocking their teeth out.
Perhaps this conversation would not take place in Europe or Canada, but those countries do not have the macho sports that the US has. Football does not reign majestic in Canada or Europe. Let's face it, figure skating is not seen as a macho sport, even though it requires much more athleticism and skill than running a football down a field or plowing into someone like a bulldozer and knocking him down and then everyone else piles on top. What fun!!!! That is what young boys see when their fathers are planted in front of the tv every weekend in America.
Why didn't this kind of controversy go around Alexei Yagudin, Kurt Browning, Brian Joubert, ......? It has a reason which you don't want to face.
This comment confuses me. What reason would I or anyone else not want to face? I remember back in the late '80's there was constant speculation about the sexual orientation of all of the top skaters such as Paul Wylie, Brian Boitano, Kurt Browning, Brian Orser.....just about all of them. When Paul Wylie brought his girlfriend to the '92 Olympics, there was talk of that being a ruse to prove that he was not gay because Paul had a very "feminine" way of skating. The whole load of crap has been going on forever and is just ridiculous. If everybody would just stop talking about it there wouldn't be a need to prove anything, but, sadly, the public has this negative impression about male figure skaters.
I remember an episode of "Will and Grace," where they were going to an ice show and Jack and was all excited about Rudi Galindo appearing. At the beginning of the show he says, "There's Rudi, he is the gay one." To which Grace replies, "One?" IMO that is an example of what feeds the public impression of male figure skaters and it is totally off base.
I have been involved in the world of figure skating for a long time. I have known gay figure skaters and straight figure skaters, as well as gay coaches and straight coaches. Never did it make any difference to me. I believe Evan's point is not to prove his masculinity, but to build an image of figure skating that will appeal to a broader range of young people in order to get more young people involved. Let's face it, most figure skating classes are filled with girls and the overwhelming majority of compeitions are made up of girls. It is very hard for a promising female skater to find a pair partner or a dance partner because there just aren't many available. It would be nice to see more young boys in the figure skating classes to acutally learn figure skating, and not to go play hockey where they can just play at bashing each other and knocking their teeth out.
Perhaps this conversation would not take place in Europe or Canada, but those countries do not have the macho sports that the US has. Football does not reign majestic in Canada or Europe. Let's face it, figure skating is not seen as a macho sport, even though it requires much more athleticism and skill than running a football down a field or plowing into someone like a bulldozer and knocking him down and then everyone else piles on top. What fun!!!! That is what young boys see when their fathers are planted in front of the tv every weekend in America.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2007
To add.....I am a dedicated Evan fan whom many would think "over the top." That is OK with me. It appears to me that, considering the criticism Evan gets for just breathing, he needs some fans who are over the top. However, what irks me is the criticism Evan gets that is based on generalizations and exageration, or a person's one single experience. That is what I would not consider fair.
Also to further inform, Evan plans on 2 quads at Nationals, one in combination and one single. Also two 3 Axels's, one in combo and one single. He also has in his program a 3lp, 3s, 3lz, 3 flip combo although that may be changed to a 3 lutz combo, and a 2 Axel. If I am correct, they are only allowed three combinations in a program or has that rule been changed? His footwork and spins are all level 4's and his PC scores have improved this year. What I am not sure of is whether or not he will still insist on putting the quad combo in his SP. I think it would be wiser to leave it out of the SP for Nationals, but still put it in for the GP and for Worlds. I think it would be too risky for Nationals.
Johnny may have defeated Evan at CoC, but I don't think he can rest on his laurels. Evan will come out again at Nationals with both barrels blazing, just as he did last year. Even if you don't care for his skating, his short and long programs this season are real stunners. Evan also picks up speed and energy as his programs progress rather than the other way around as is typical of most everyone else. I think Johnny has a lot of work still to do to catch anyone outside of what he has done at CoC or CoR. Lambiel and Lysacek were not at their top form at those competitions, while Johnny was. What is he going to do when they are? I think Johnny's skating is fantastic, but it is his arrogant attitude that puts me off.
Also to further inform, Evan plans on 2 quads at Nationals, one in combination and one single. Also two 3 Axels's, one in combo and one single. He also has in his program a 3lp, 3s, 3lz, 3 flip combo although that may be changed to a 3 lutz combo, and a 2 Axel. If I am correct, they are only allowed three combinations in a program or has that rule been changed? His footwork and spins are all level 4's and his PC scores have improved this year. What I am not sure of is whether or not he will still insist on putting the quad combo in his SP. I think it would be wiser to leave it out of the SP for Nationals, but still put it in for the GP and for Worlds. I think it would be too risky for Nationals.
Johnny may have defeated Evan at CoC, but I don't think he can rest on his laurels. Evan will come out again at Nationals with both barrels blazing, just as he did last year. Even if you don't care for his skating, his short and long programs this season are real stunners. Evan also picks up speed and energy as his programs progress rather than the other way around as is typical of most everyone else. I think Johnny has a lot of work still to do to catch anyone outside of what he has done at CoC or CoR. Lambiel and Lysacek were not at their top form at those competitions, while Johnny was. What is he going to do when they are? I think Johnny's skating is fantastic, but it is his arrogant attitude that puts me off.
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Kurt got himself in the middle of the 'debate' last year at US nationals because of a couple comments he made, he's not immune... and I remember a lot of rumor/speculation on the boards around 02 about Alexei... which was just an indicator that some things never change and stereotypes still live on...
go back even a bit farther to Mr. Hamilton's worlds reign... he would have been fed to the wolves like Evan is now... Scott admits as much in the book that he didn't like the stigma that skating got and he went about changing it. No different than what Evan is doing now, the difference is that fans have an outlet to vent and so some fans take it to heart and get hurt and upset on both sides and emotions take control.
I'm a big fan of Evan's, but I don't care for Tosca... I prefer his Carmen and even his Grease number (I think I'm the only one who really loved that program, even Evan seemed to hate it lol) to Tosca. Tosca just seems to be a rehash of last year... just how I perceive it, though... I could come back from Nationals singing a different tune. But as it stands now Tosca doesn't stun me in the slightest
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What the rest of the world knows as "football" reigns supreme everywhere except in the US. And rugby, the forerunner of American football, is big in the UK.
The real reason this conversation wouldn't take place in Europe is that the US is much more conservative socially. Not just by a small margin either!
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Yes, you are.I think I'm the only one who really loved that program (Grease)
This controversy may not have involved the three skaters you mentioned, but it has gone on before -- think Stojko's "at least I skate like a man" comments when asked about Alexei Urmanov (who criticized Stojko's lack of artistry)
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
Yes, you are.
you're just jealous cuz even after wearing the zebra print Jacket he got the girl (Tanith) 
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2003
yes your football is our soccer... it's pretty popular over here... but not as popular as football and really baseball (which is still America's passtime )
)We interrupt this masculinity debate for an update:
http://www.figureskatersonline.com/johnnyweir/journal.html
Johnny has thanked ESPN for mentioning the award and apologized for any unnecessary drama queeniness.
It's also worth noting that in one interview before CoR he was quoted as saying he would jump whatever Galina told him to jump, and I suspect "When I'm ready" will ultimately translate into when she tells him he's ready. I hope so, anyway; I would definitely trust her judgement.
http://www.figureskatersonline.com/johnnyweir/journal.html
Johnny has thanked ESPN for mentioning the award and apologized for any unnecessary drama queeniness.
It's also worth noting that in one interview before CoR he was quoted as saying he would jump whatever Galina told him to jump
, and I suspect "When I'm ready" will ultimately translate into when she tells him he's ready. I hope so, anyway; I would definitely trust her judgement.
