Johnny Weir Journal Update !

[decker]

I think Johnny is just jealous that he was beaten fair and square and can't understand why he didn't win.

Johnny's reply when asked what happened at Nats 07 was: "he kicked my (rear end)!" I don't see any evidence there that he is unclear on the concept. And I think most of the in-Spokane stuff was manufactured anyway. The low point was the comparison of Evan and Johnny to Frazier and Ali.

Johnny always has some little something in his journal that I find irksome. But for the most part the entries are funny. In a snarky sort of way. But the interviews I've seen this year are more focused and mature. The website journal is open to anybody, of course, but the main purpose is for the fans. I expect it to be more personal and casual and not necessarily targeted to a general audience.

Susan

 

[Tonichelle]

true, but he knows everyone's watching...

he thrives on the attention... nothing wrong with that...

as for the idea that Johnny's thinking it's unfair he lost in 07, that's not why he was upset. I never saw anything that suggested that he was thinking anything but 'I screwed up and let him have my title'

he's gone about to fix that... and Evan's going to have to watch himself in St. Paul... because Johnny's on track to take that title back.

 

[Dodhiyel]

Indeed, these guys are close in their scores and do have different approaches to winning. I think you brought up a topic that should be separated from this topic.

My take on the topic was just to point out that Johnny has his approach to winning in a 'simplistic'style and not a 'complex' style. He does what he is known for and offers nothing new. That's not a bash. He is being himself and why not? His competitors are reaching out in different directions than being themselves.

I have my preference but I can not predict a winner here Just wondering what the judges come up with while scoring these gentlemen. And yes, clean and jumps are all part of the equation. (Brian will come into being during Worlds, and here we have a skater without much style but super jumps.)

And Johnny is ready for that judgement.

Joe

Joe, I didn't think you were bashing Johnny! I'm sorry if my post made it appear that I thought that. I really meant it when I said you had made an interesting observation, so, over my morning coffee, I decided to reminisce over the changes in figure skating evaluation that I have witnessed, and theorize a little about what the present system might mean to different types of skaters, in terms of risks taken, point costs and rewards, and I genuinely wanted your opinion on my notions. What you said made me think about Johnny's style.

I found myself thinking that perhaps Johnny does not want to include the quad yet, because he does not want to risk a fall that would interfere with his overall sense of the program. I did not put that very well; I think that Johnny has an artistic concept in his head, and even though he might get points from a failed quad, he might not want to skate that way. Perhaps it is a matter of wanting to avoid ruined concentration, perhaps it is a matter of wanting to present an artistic whole; I cannot say, only Johnny really knows his reasons. What I perceive, watching him, is an apparent desire to present an artistic whole, rather than just a point total. I think he wants to have it both ways, i.e., to garner enough points to win, but still to have his overall presentation be clean, integrated, smoothly connected, pure skating. Falls really interfere with things like that.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I found myself thinking that perhaps Johnny does not want to include the quad yet, because he does not want to risk a fall that would interfere with his overall sense of the program. I did not put that very well; I think that Johnny has an artistic concept in his head, and even though he might get points from a failed quad, he might not want to skate that way. Perhaps it is a matter of wanting to avoid ruined concentration, perhaps it is a matter of wanting to present an artistic whole; I cannot say, only Johnny really knows his reasons. What I perceive, watching him, is an apparent desire to present an artistic whole, rather than just a point total. I think he wants to have it both ways, i.e., to garner enough points to win, but still to have his overall presentation be clean, integrated, smoothly connected, pure skating. Falls really interfere with things like that.

Dodhiyel - I did not think you thought I was bashing Johnny :agree:

I agree with your thoughts on the commplete 'artistic' sense of Johnny. He took a beating last season with all that 'fooling around outside skating' but he learned his lesson. He definitely is, imo, into a performance, and when that performance is rated the 'best that night', he is in total harmony with the world.

I hope for his sake that the quad is not necessary because if he misses it, it will take down the performance.

We'll see what happens.

Joe

 

[bekalc]

Very true. Also to this point Evan and Johnny have a total of 2 world bronze medals between them. They are no Boitano and Orser, Kwan and Slutskaya, or Yagudin and Plushenko.

They don't have two world bronze medals between them. Both medal's are Evan's.

 

[BravesSkateFan]

What's wrong with being masculine anyway? If Evan wants to take the sport in that direction it is his perogative. Just as it is anyone elses perogrative to try to take the sport in a direction they like. Tanith and Ben have been vocal about moving thier sport in a new direction (hip-hop) as well.

 

[jennylovskt]

Johnny is so self-conscious about his age. The longer he waits, the less likely he will actually put the quad into his programs because he's not ready, he won't feel ready, he will never feel ready.

What's wrong with being masculine anyway? If Evan wants to take the sport in that direction it is his perogative. Just as it is anyone elses perogrative to try to take the sport in a direction they like. Tanith and Ben have been vocal about moving thier sport in a new direction (hip-hop) as well.

Nothing wrong with being masculine. The thing annoying people is that Evan wants to make sure that everyone knows he is masculine.

 

[Bennett]

Nothing wrong with being masculine. The thing annoying people is that Evan wants to make sure that everyone knows he is masculine.

ITA. He wants to make sure that he looks strong and have fighting spirit, guts, confidence, etc etc. Nothing wrong with these, too. But this kind of attitude just makes me feel exhausted

 

[attyfan]

ITA. He wants to make sure that he looks strong and have fighting spirit, guts, confidence, etc etc. Nothing wrong with these, too. But this kind of attitude just makes me feel exhausted

It wouldn't be so bad if he just wanted to look strong, with spirit, guts and confidence. But, those characteristics are not masculine -- think Elena B coming back from injury; Shen skating on an injured ankle at Worlds in '03; Irina doing her best for her country while ill at Worlds in '04 (and Michelle handling the streaker); and more.

 

[werelump]

What's wrong with being masculine anyway? If Evan wants to take the sport in that direction it is his perogative. Just as it is anyone elses perogrative to try to take the sport in a direction they like. Tanith and Ben have been vocal about moving thier sport in a new direction (hip-hop) as well.

There is nothing wrong with being masculine but there is something bothersome, certainly, when someone goes into a room and says, "This sport is too girly (as if there is something wrong with girly) let's make this sport more manly!" Directing skating in a more hip hop direction is different. The motivation for that is to innovate, diversify, make skating better, rather than to correct something wrong with skating. To suggest that making male figure skating more manly is an innovation and change needs to happen, is ridiculous to me and somewhat offensive.

While I think what Evan really wants to happen is to break the stereotype associated with skating, "Look at me! I am man! Don't make assumptions about me just because I am a skater!" It might not be the message that is ultimately coming out.

 

[bekalc]

What's wrong with Evan wanting to appear more masculine? Why is this a bad thing or a dirty word. I don't mind effiminate male skaters... But I see nothing wrong with a skater wanting to have a more masculine style. I see nothing wrong with a skater saying, hey skating isn't a sissy sport whatsover. Most football loving guys wouldn't be too into Johnny Weir quite frankly. But they might be into a more Kurt Browning like style.. There's nothing wrong with that...

Everyone is welcome to their own style..

 

[Bennett]

It wouldn't be so bad if he just wanted to look strong, with spirit, guts and confidence. But, those characteristics are not masculine -- think Elena B coming back from injury; Shen skating on an injured ankle at Worlds in '03; Irina doing her best for her country while ill at Worlds in '04 (and Michelle handling the streaker); and more.

Certainly, these characteristics are not only for males. But then, in what other ways does he try to look masculine (and then annoy people)?

ETA: And let me add that it becomes exhausting for me when strength, confidence, fighting spirit, guts etc are shown off. I believe that these are internal qualities that do not necessarily need to be spoken in interviews etc.

 

[Tonichelle]

While I think what Evan really wants to happen is to break the stereotype associated with skating, "Look at me! I am man! Don't make assumptions about me just because I am a skater!" It might not be the message that is ultimately coming out.

Perhaps Evan is just unable to find a better word... I guess masculine is no longer the PC term (but how can one keep up when those change hourly???) he could say athletic, but Johnny's every bit as athletic, and that also seems the wrong word...

the average joe sports watcher -in the US where Evan (and Johnny) is from- does not consider men's figure skating a 'real sport' because of everything Evan is trying to avoid... I can't blame him for it. He's grown up in that stigma, and he can't very well change the people's minds on his own... but he can break out of the perceived mold in his own way... more power to him.

 

[psycho]

Woah. So do you think the USFSA is helping to promote the feud between Johnny & Evan by hand feeding Evan ammunition?

Here is what I think is going on. USFSA have a script. They want the sport to be more "masculine". They wanted Johnny to follow that script, but you saw how that worked out. Thankfully for them, Johnny lost nationals last year. Here comes Evan. Like a good boy, he follows the script, saying he'll represent US differently than Johnny and be masculine. He probably didn't even mean anything by it, just followed the script. Now Johnny, when he hears this, gets offended, because he sees this as a slight to himself (and he's justified in thinking that). He calls Evan fake and says, "bring it on, *****!" Now it's a pissing match with no end in site.

Here is why Evan's masculinity talk is annoying. Look at Brian Joubert. He's masculine. He is not afraid to wear sparkles. He does not hold press conferences dedicated to the subject of his masculinity either. Evan is just trying too hard.

 

[werelump]

Perhaps Evan is just unable to find a better word... I guess masculine is no longer the PC term (but how can one keep up when those change hourly???) he could say athletic, but Johnny's every bit as athletic, and that also seems the wrong word...

the average joe sports watcher -in the US where Evan (and Johnny) is from- does not consider men's figure skating a 'real sport' because of everything Evan is trying to avoid... I can't blame him for it. He's grown up in that stigma, and he can't very well change the people's minds on his own... but he can break out of the perceived mold in his own way... more power to him.

I wish he'd do it just by being himself. Rather than set off on this epic in-your-face one man quest to battle away the stigma of effeminity (although in a perfect world in wouldn't be a stigma), do away with the sequins and rhinestones associated with men's figure skating and unintentionally stomp over Johnny in his glitter-bomb unitard on his way up!

 

[Bennett]

There is nothing wrong with being masculine but there is something bothersome, certainly, when someone goes into a room and says, "This sport is too girly (as if there is something wrong with girly) let's make this sport more manly!" Directing skating in a more hip hop direction is different. The motivation for that is to innovate, diversify, make skating better, rather than to correct something wrong with skating. To suggest that making male figure skating more manly is an innovation and change needs to happen, is ridiculous to me and somewhat offensive.

While I think what Evan really wants to happen is to break the stereotype associated with skating, "Look at me! I am man! Don't make assumptions about me just because I am a skater!" It might not be the message that is ultimately coming out.

Good point. I like the way Daisuke can be girly in the way he presents himself without being insecure about what others may think of him. I like the sweet, soft way he talks, the fancy costumes he often chose to wear, and his layback spin. All looks quite natural for him. Having learned ballet and FS, I have seen such guys all the time and am quite comfortable with it.

So yes, making all the efforts to advertise one's masculinity may be exhausting for me to watch. I am not saying such efforts are wrong or offensive. But I am just saying that it makes me feel exhausted because I believe that he can be just himself. If he likes to be 'masculine,' he can just be 'masculine.' But I don't think that he necessarily needs to advertise it. Yet, if he believes that his masculinity is not acknowledged without making such efforts, that's perhaps the stigma he is facing and I cannot speak for him.

Anyways, I wish him good luck:thumbsup:

 

[Tonichelle]

again I think this is where age and in a sense immaturity play a factor - he's only 22, and yes he's been in the spotlight a while but with the media already pushing this rivalry between the two (they seemed perfectly friendly before all of the attention... now I'm not so sure lol) I think both are allowing a lot of manipulation to happen and they're taking it out on the wrong person

they're both being pulled by the media... they should become a two man team and stick it to the tv crews.

but then they wouldn't get the air time or the big sponsers, so what do I know lol

 

[hockeyfan228]

I find Weir's stroking more powerful, his edges deeper, and his jump technique to be stronger and more dynamic that Lysacek's. I find Lysacek lightweight by comparison in terms of stroking and body control. If I were to choose whom I found more masculine and mature by the way he skated overall, I would say Weir.

 

[sillylionlove]

I am going to call Oliver Stone. This would make a good conspricacy theory movie!!!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Nothing wrong with a good conspiracy theory, especially when they become facts.

Joe