2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[silveruskate]

I for one do want her to succeed. More great skaters increases the competition and makes everyone better.

But it won’t be done by treating her like a perfect human being. She needs to be told some inconvenient truths. And her coaches are telling her those.

Her quitting on her programs, which is something even her own fans have mentioned, is a bad habit.

Sometimes you need tough love. Someone should have told her that after her music was given to someone else, she could either fight and get it back by outperforming her rivals and becoming top dog, or leave forever and go somewhere where she can make them regret they let her go. She chose the worst option, returning.

And once she see returned, said she put her head down and please get coaches. No.

I think people are upset that TT isn’t letting her run the show. And they shouldn’t.

She won’t improve her skating until she improves her attitude.

I have spoken enough about her "quitting". Her worst stsq was on a SP program where she landed 3A and skated clean. She hasn't fallen on a single jump this season! Her 3A didn't go well a few times and she's still jumping every next element to the max. She stepped out her 3A and 3Lz then went clean the rest Yet ok she's not trying and quitting. Maybe there do exist well-wishers like you. I need to get used to this new phenomenon!

No one's saying perfect. You SO don't sound like a well wisher but sure.

 

[alexocfp]

I have spoken enough about her "quitting". Her worst stsq was on a SP program where she landed 3A and skated clean. She hasn't fallen on a single jump this season! Her 3A didn't go well a few times and she's still jumping every next element to the max. She stepped out her 3A and 3Lz then went clean the rest Yet ok she's not trying and quitting. Maybe there do exist well-wishers like you. I need to get used to this new phenomenon!

No one's saying perfect. You SO don't sound like a well wisher but sure.

I can wish her well while still calling out the bad points she needs to fix.

Man, I wish Liza had this kind of behavior so I could criticize her too to show that i am impartial.

As it is, I just sit and watch her be called trashy by others. Haha.

 

[silveruskate]

I can wish her well while still calling out the bad points she needs to fix.

You can also keep speaking mistruths about her too. It's all good in this world.

 

[alexocfp]

You can also keep speaking mistruths about her too. It's all good in this world.

Like? Her leaving coaches every 3 months. Like her not doing the drills her coaches tell her? Like her half assing practice? Haha

I will be one of the first people to congratulate her and say good for fighting back and proving everyone wrong. You’ll see.

 

[readernick]

[

I can wish her well while still calling out the bad points she needs to fix.

Man, I wish Liza had this kind of behavior so I could criticize her too to show that i am impartial.

As it is, I just sit and watch her be called trashy by others. Haha.

Actually, you will never know what Liza is like in practice, because her coach is professional enough to keep his mouth shut. Liza went through many years where she struggled. Was she unmotivated? Was it growth related? Injury? Who knows? Not the public, thankfully!

 

[silveruskate]

Like? Her leaving coaches every 3 months. Like her not doing the drills her coaches tell her? Like her half assing practice? Haha

Like she's not improved at all. Like she's an absolute wreck of a skater flopping all her jumps. Like she isn't still jumping one of the hardest jumps in figure skating - it requires some conditioning ya know, maybe a sprinkle of hard work. Her problem is stamina and we can all see it. Aliona has said nothing but that she needs to keep working hard. Her sin is not being able to practice the way her coaches want her to, yet she attends them all. Even Eteri skaters have struggled at her age but she has solid 3-3s. Your comments would have somebody believe she's that entitled Diva not trying at all. But don't you worry, Aliona is travelling 4hrs return every day to meet her goals. Doesn't have the time you have to make false comments about 18 yr olds!

 

[Decoder]

Bingo.

The skaters aren’t normal girls and in this pressure situation they need to always work harder than the day before and take everything that comes their way. Including getting bad press and being criticized by the coaches publicly.

If Russian figure skating treated the skates the way some want (delicately), they wouldn’t be the powerhouse they are.

Age doesn’t mean anything. They aren’t average teenagers to begin with. Or else they wouldn’t have gotten this far.

Obviously, Eteri’s success has become the envy and scorn for some.

And Alena has become a proxy war in that fight. Alena is going to lose that war. At some point, she will get released and that will be that. Then what?

Also, a lot of people are having a hard time accepting that more likely than not, the Alena era is over if she doesn’t change what she is doing now.

Haha, I liked your post, then un-liked it after I mis-read the last paragraph as "Aliona is over", and then liked it again. I am a poor Aliona fan.

 

[alexocfp]

[
Actually, you will never know what Liza is like in practice, because her coach is professional enough to keep his mouth shut. Liza went though many years where she struggled. Was she unmotivated? Was it growth related? Injury? Who knows? Not the public, thankfully!

She had admitted herself that she thought about quitting a few years back. So that’s public.

But Liza hasn’t left Mr Mishin and they have a better relationship than TT and Alena.

 

[alexocfp]

Like she's not improved at all. Like she's an absolute wreck of a skater flopping all her jumps. Like she isn't still jumping one of the hardest jumps in figure skating - it requires some conditioning ya know, maybe a sprinkle of hard work. Her problem is stamina and we can all see it. Aliona has said nothing but that she needs to keep working hard. Her sin is not being able to practice the way her coaches want her to, yet she attends them all. Even Eteri skaters have struggled at her age but she has solid 3-3s. Your comments would have somebody believe she's that entitled Diva not trying at all. But don't you worry, Aliona is travelling 4hrs return every day to meet her goals. Doesn't have the time you have to make false comments about 18 yr olds!

Her not trying as hard is straight from her coaches, not me. I’m commenting on public information. The coaches are telling you she is getting out worked by the other skaters, and she is playing catch up so she needs to listen to them.

Her leaving her coach only to return and then still giving them issues. That alone is Diva, entitled behavior. She should be humble and grateful they took her back. They did her the favor not the other way around.

We should not be hearing any thing about her except that she is came back hungrier and is a model student.

And for the talk of TT going public, when have they made disparaging remarks about Anna, Kamila, or Maia?

Also, Trusova also did the leave and return. How come TT aren’t going public there as well?

After 3 stints with 2 different coaches, maybe it isn’t the coaches that she is where she is.

 

[alexocfp]

Geez, when are our Russian friends getting up? They are missing everything. Haha

 

[el henry]

I believe you are capable bow out a dozen times in one evening

As a question of procedure, I will return, although I have already taken my leave with our discussion.

I try to answer each poster who has chosen to engage, presuming the posts are in good faith and I see the answer. And then, for that poster, I say good bye.

Perhaps I am overly polite

 

[alexocfp]

Haha, I liked your post, then un-liked it after I mis-read the last paragraph as "Aliona is over", and then liked it again. I am a poor Aliona fan.

And I want you to continue to be her fan.

I know nobody believes me, but it’s not personal. I don’t hate her, her life choices won’t impact me.

I would give her the biggest hug if I ever met her and tell her to keep going and fighting. I’m sure she would slap me in return. Haha

 

[Jontor]

I love figure skating. What I don't like is when this message board turns into scandalous gossip. It's mind boggling that some fans think they know their favourites so well.

 

[Decoder]

And I want you to continue to be her fan.

I know nobody believes me, but it’s not personal. I don’t hate her, her life choices won’t impact me.

I world give her the biggest hug if I ever met her and tell her to keep going and fighting. I’m sure she would slap me in return. Haha

I actually agree with many points of yours. You are talking about "business", tough love, and responsibility.
When Aliona left TT, I stopped going to her fan thread, because I was so upset and felt helpless. I was probably not a true fan. But I like a good story if one can be told. Besides, I really loved her skating. I am sure you did too.

 

[alexocfp]

I love figure skating. What I don't like is when this message board turns into scandalous gossip. It's mind boggling that some fans think they know their favourites so well.

But, when your are a fan, sometimes you think you know them better than you do.

I can see why, you get so emotionally attached rooting for them, that they become like friends.

And yes, the opposite is true: when you castigate a public figure thinking you know them. Yes, I realize the irony typing this sentence. Haha

I actually agree with many points of yours. You are talking about "business", tough love, and responsibility.
When Aliona left TT, I stopped going to her fan thread, because I was so upset and felt helpless. I was probably not a true fan. But I like a good story if one can be told. Besides, I really loved her skating. I am sure you did too.

Sorry, but don’t let anyone tell you you aren’t a true fan. That’s ridiculous. Don’t let anyone define the parameters.

For me, being a fan that supports everything the athlete does is part of the problem today. That’s how you get a big head and don’t stay grounded.

People have the idea that criticism makes you not a true fan. Ridiculous.

Fan and sycophant are 2 different things.

And from a selfish standpoint: Alena becoming better will push my favorite skater, to stay on her toes, since she is part of the Liza chasers, with Maia. And I want Maia to keep improving as well.

And Liu. And I want Plushenko to succeed as a coach.

Having 20 or 30 skaters chasing medals is good for the viewer, the sport and its appeal.

And makes triumphs of your favorites mean more. Liza’s GP medal means more than the Russian cup gold because she beat competition that wasn’t as good as her.

This golden era in mens tennis, was because we had 3 greats pushing each other.

 

[Climb]

Actually, you will never know what Liza is like in practice, because her coach is professional enough to keep his mouth shut. Liza went though many years where she struggled. Was she unmotivated? Was it growth related? Injury? Who knows? Not the public, thankfully!

As if Mishin didn't speak about the issues.
The answer to your questions is yes, it was growth related, injures, problems with weight etc.

Maybe the ones who know nothing should keep their mouths shut.

 

[alexocfp]

As if Mishin didn't speak about the issues.
The answer to your questions is yes, it was growth related, injures, problems with weight etc.

Maybe the ones who know nothing should keep their mouths shut.

For me, it makes no difference if a coach talks publicly or not. You are in a sport where you literally get judged at your job with numerical values.

Being scrutinized is part of the game. Especially when it’s high stakes like it is in Russia.

What we talk about here is not one millionth of what they hear by the fans there that are closer to the action. Alena, and everyone, have been called much worse.

Like Anna would be affected by a negative poster. She would probably skate better knowing her track record. Haha

We have to know the environment we are dealing with. Ladies figure skating is a major sport in Russia. The mainstream press covers it. There are a lot of eyeballs on it. Coaches talking or not doesn’t matter. Things will get out because of it.

Like if the TT coaches didn’t say anything today we wouldn’t have found out sooner or later anyway.

You can’t hide anything for long.

The managers don’t need to talk at Liverpool FC or Manchester United. The story comes out anyway.

Plus a lot of the drama has to do with the fact that there are a lot of Alpha Females with egos coming together in the same place at the same time fighting for one gold medal. Even the coaches have egos. Haha

And that’s not a knock. You need to have some ego to be at the top of your sport, as a skater and coach.

 

[sclloyd]

I for one do want her to succeed. More great skaters increases the competition and makes everyone better.

But it won’t be done by treating her like a perfect human being. She needs to be told some inconvenient truths. And her coaches are telling her those.

Her quitting on her programs, which is something even her own fans have mentioned, is a bad habit.

Sometimes you need tough love. Someone should have told her that after her music was given to someone else, she could either fight and get it back by outperforming her rivals and becoming top dog, or leave forever and go somewhere where she can make them regret they let her go. She chose the worst option, returning.

And once she see returned, did she put her head down and please the coaches. No.

I think people are upset that TT isn’t letting her run the show. And they shouldn’t.

She won’t improve her skating until she improves her attitude.

Did she put her head down and please the coaches? Well she is certainly better than she was prior. It's obvious that someone who is consistently improving MUST be trying. Does SHE need to be told some inconvenient truths? Yes. That is the point of a coach. BUT WE ARE NOT HER. These discussions should be kept private.

And no one is upset that TT isn't letting her run the show... she returned to them and has done nothing but what they want. She picks Beth Hart, they don't like it, and next competition it is gone. She wants Winter, they don't like it, next competition it is Lovely. She apologizes to them on national TV. Returns the 3A. Seems almost made to grovel to them for accepting her back. Maybe fair, maybe not. But it is what they want and she has sincerely fulfilled these tasks. "Do exactly as I say, Aliona. Do not thank me, perform". The post thanking Daniil is gone. At some point the coaches need to meet her halfway. The mental issues competitive athletes already face is incredible, there is no need to make them worse by causing unnecessary scandal and drama. How many times did Sasha fall and lose gold for it. Almost lose the podium for it? Did we ever hear a snarky interview about how the result wasn't what was wanted so Sasha should just *try harder*? It's not known if TT and Daniil gave her the grace of some sort of attempt at mental health help to ease her performance anxiety, but at the very least he gave her the grace of silence.

BTW, the suggestion that she "fight for her music by becoming top dog" is ridiculous considering that was post world's cancellation where she was the favorite-- after sweeping every international competition she'd entered into, and neither Maia nor Adelia had won anything. SHE WAS THE TOP DOG.

 

[Climb]

Coaches criticize their skaters all the time. It is their job. Privately or publically, i could care less.
Many times you can hear coaches criticizing their students right after their skates. There are many documentaries, where you can see the whole working process. All that is public.

Just recently, Mishin mentioned Shcherbakova in KnC. He explained to his student that he is making the same "mistake" as she does

 

[Nogagolova]

"We don't need gratitude from her," Daniil Markovich said... and Alyona deleted the post with gratitude in Insta.

Alenaaaaaa.... it is necessary to continue reading: "our task is to help her reach her maximum."

They want to help.