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2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating
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I think they would chalk it up to having a bad day. Kamila's already faced Liza twice and Maiia and Aliona once and come out far on top. Only Anna and Sasha are more competitive and they may not be in top form. There will be a bigger crowd at the Olympics but she's also skated cleanly in front of those before (nationals last season) so she's already proven herself to be a reliable podium threat.
Yeah it can produce some strange results. Partly because big names often don't go to challengers. So I guess you could see it as encouragement to skate for more than one season and to entice bigger names to skate at smaller competitions.
Yes. Frankly the system now is that basically you get points just to show up at competitions. It's not what you do at competitions that counts.
Right now Ryabova is ranked higher than Valieva. It is just ridiculous.
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Yeah it can produce some strange results. Partly because big names often don't go to challengers. So I guess you could see it as encouragement to skate for more than one season and to entice bigger names to skate at smaller competitions.
There you go. Reasons why they are useless.
Ryabova ranked ahead of Kamila. Even Ryabova doesn’t rank herself above Kamila. Haha
You need a weekly ranking system that rewards placings over just showing up. And bigger events are worth more points. You also need to incorporate National championships into the system.
It’s not rocket science. Then again, the ISU can’t run a proper website so adding numbers might be a task too much to ask for. Haha
I bet she felt pressure every time she competed this season. In spite of being outstanding so far.
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Yes, definitely. First of all, she has competed against Aliona, Liza T, and Maiia - not exactly the "B Team". Sure, she has a higher "base value" on paper, but so what? I'm pretty sure she's not thinking "My base value is so high it let's me fall and still win, so I'm all set". That kind of mindset is a recipe for failure.
Plus she certainly must be aware of all the expectations that have been placed on her since she was still in Juniors. In some ways, I think there have been more expectations on her this season than there were for Anna, Aliona, and Sasha together in 2019-20. The "pressure of expectations" was kind of spread among all three of them. A lot of people have been expecting Kamila to not only win this season, but to win big.
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Kamila did finish 2nd at Nationals last year remember. So it’s difficult to believe she will do worse this year being a better skater than she was 12 months ago.
She has been skating under pressure, as Olympic favorite, all season and so far so good.
Obviously, past results don’t guarantee future performances, but there is nothing to indicate she will be mid table at Nationals this year.
The snake looks to continue to slither into the record books.
But, analysis aside, that’s why you play the game. Medals aren’t won on paper or hypotheticals. They are won in the arena.
She has been skating under pressure, as Olympic favorite, all season and so far so good.
Obviously, past results don’t guarantee future performances, but there is nothing to indicate she will be mid table at Nationals this year.
The snake looks to continue to slither into the record books.
But, analysis aside, that’s why you play the game. Medals aren’t won on paper or hypotheticals. They are won in the arena.
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Frankly, if you’re Kamila and you see the way Aliona was trashed in the media and you know she’s coming off a bad season, that Liza has barely made it back to Aliona’s level after a few seasons, and that Maia is the ultimate underdog out of the 6, you’re probably not going to be super worried about facing them. Especially when you’re being declared OGM winner by Fed and media before you’ve stepped foot on senior ice.
I’d like to see Kamila get treated the way Aliona and Sasha and Maia get treated and THEN somehow still manage to have confidence.
Like I said— Kamila has always done fine when there’s limited competition. Every time she’s failed it’s been against those with her same BV roughly. I could be wrong, but she doesn’t have a good record of performing well when Anna or Sasha are on the ice with her.
Sounds more like a wish
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For the World Rankings, you have to keep in mind all the cancelled competitions from last season. Almost all of the skaters ahead of Kamila went to Worlds last season, so they have points from that at least, and Worlds is worth the most points of any event. Kamila and the other juniors didn't have anything. So it's more off than usual. Winning JW would have given Kamila 500 points, which would move her up into 7th
Anyways, I don't agree that the World Standing rewards "just showing up" over placements. It rewards a combination of competing a lot and doing well (which is true of other ranking systems, like in tennis). I don't know that they have all the weightings right, but the idea is fine imo.
Also, because it includes the results of the last couple seasons instead of just the current one, it's definitely not an absolute reflection of who's the best right now. It's clearly not meant to be. The ISU does have the Season Rankings for that.
And I don't see why Nationals results should count for the WS. It's an ISU ranking, so ISU comps count. Nationals don't count for tech minimums, they don't count for SB scores, so why would WS be different?
Anyways, I don't agree that the World Standing rewards "just showing up" over placements. It rewards a combination of competing a lot and doing well (which is true of other ranking systems, like in tennis). I don't know that they have all the weightings right, but the idea is fine imo.
Also, because it includes the results of the last couple seasons instead of just the current one, it's definitely not an absolute reflection of who's the best right now. It's clearly not meant to be. The ISU does have the Season Rankings for that.
And I don't see why Nationals results should count for the WS. It's an ISU ranking, so ISU comps count. Nationals don't count for tech minimums, they don't count for SB scores, so why would WS be different?
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I think so, too. The weight of expectations must have been a huge burden, but I'd say:
She went from being visibly nervous at Finlandia, to relieved and happy at Skate Canada, to just being in her own world at Rostelecom. Watching these programs back-to-back it's easy to see that at each event she became more confident, and was able to interpret more and just enjoy herself more.
Disagree. The SB list is the most important list for GP assignments. Why not have the WS list reflecting the SB list? It could be something like you count your best 4 international results (or more) the last three seasons.
As it is now, it is NOT a ranking system. There is definitely something wrong when skaters like Starr Andrews are constantly in the WS top 24 list. The WS list just promotes those who are able to compete internationally (which means you only have to show up a lot) to get high on the list. For big federations like Russia, it is a big disadvantage as all the great Russian skaters don't get all the international spots.
A SB based system would be more fair, it don't mean that Russian women would be everywhere, we have entry quotas for that, but at least we would have a more quality based system where the actual ranking would REALLY reflect who is the best skaters.
The whole WS situation matters when it comes to big competitions where the starting order in the short is determined by the WS list. For example, at Rostelecom Ryabova started after Valieva as she is ranked higher on the WS list. We all know that judges give more PCS to later skaters (just like they did in the 6.0 era). That definitely hurt Sinitsyna at Skate America where she had to start first (Andrews started 6th!), and Sinitsyna started first again at GP France (Ryabova 9th!). I am pretty sure that Sinitsyna, who is an exquisite skater imo, would have gotten higher PCS in the short in those competitions if she had started later. And her SB score of 215 points proves that she is a much better skater than both Andrews (160-180 points) and Ryabova (170-190 points).
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I'm interested to see how much Eteri will be able to flex her political power at Rus Nats. Anything but 3 olympics spot for her would be a failure. Eteri probably has more power domestically than internationally. Maybe the domestic judges wont share the same sentiment for Elizaveta like they're doing at international level.
As much as I like the idea of Maia the underdog going to the olympics, I think she has no chance. They're not going to sent someone with the lowest pcs reputation and untested in a high pressure event.
I'm desperately hoping that a miracle has happened between Internationeux de France and Rus Nats where she will miraculously before 2019 Alena. Otherwise I dont see why the fed will send her over Elizaveta. They have already gone to feed Elizaveta the high pcs and goe they used to give Alena.
Anna could win silver with just 1 quad (barring a Alexandra comeback). She had a higher score with a mistake and 1 quad at GP italy than Elizaveta with 2 clean programs. That's how weird the scoring is. I think she will be able capable of delivering 2 nicely muscled and mangled quads at Rus Nats to secure her spot.
Kamila just has to show her passport id at the judges face to collect her scores.
Alexandra is a mystery. She can go from record breaking quad program to a disaster. I think if Alexandra delivers 5 quads it will be very different for the judges to not let her win over Kamila despite the fact it is highly feasible for the judges to still manouever the win for Kamila. On one hand it would look horrendous if their heavily backed number 1 skater lost domestically. But then on the other hand, it would contradict all their push on quads and allowing quads in the sp for girls if they are sending out the message that a 5 quad program is not champion worthy
As much as I like the idea of Maia the underdog going to the olympics, I think she has no chance. They're not going to sent someone with the lowest pcs reputation and untested in a high pressure event.
I'm desperately hoping that a miracle has happened between Internationeux de France and Rus Nats where she will miraculously before 2019 Alena. Otherwise I dont see why the fed will send her over Elizaveta. They have already gone to feed Elizaveta the high pcs and goe they used to give Alena.
Anna could win silver with just 1 quad (barring a Alexandra comeback). She had a higher score with a mistake and 1 quad at GP italy than Elizaveta with 2 clean programs. That's how weird the scoring is. I think she will be able capable of delivering 2 nicely muscled and mangled quads at Rus Nats to secure her spot.
Kamila just has to show her passport id at the judges face to collect her scores.
Alexandra is a mystery. She can go from record breaking quad program to a disaster. I think if Alexandra delivers 5 quads it will be very different for the judges to not let her win over Kamila despite the fact it is highly feasible for the judges to still manouever the win for Kamila. On one hand it would look horrendous if their heavily backed number 1 skater lost domestically. But then on the other hand, it would contradict all their push on quads and allowing quads in the sp for girls if they are sending out the message that a 5 quad program is not champion worthy
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I completely agree. Kamila is beloved and to some extent pushed as the next great skater but here's the kicker..... SHE ACTUALLY HAS TO BE GREAT!!!!!!
They've placed all these expectations on her and everytime she walks out there she's got to live up to the standard that is expected from her!!!!! It's not like it's been rigged so she can do doubles and win. I think that's incredibly stressful and she's been amazing operating under the weight of those expectations.
Some people act like she can just do doubles and be handed the trophy.
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To be clear I am not the only one who thinks she is overscored. Read reddit, twitter, or the YouTube comments sections of a number of videos of her side by side with other WR scores, or even just the Rostelecom Cup Winner announcement on Reddit.
Let's take the scoring calculator supplied above and insert my own set of jumps for her:
2A
3F
3Lz-2T
If we keep all of her other element scores exactly the same (or as close as the calculator will let us get) she would score OVER 80 POINTS. And yet the same people in this thread who talk about my scoring being harsh state no program without a 3A should get over 80?
Now let's go to the FS. If we want her to score about equal to Anna with all 3-3's and a quad she only needs:
3S
2A
3T-2Lo (changed from 2T downgrade because I don't understand zayaking rules, but I don't want to break them)
3Lo
3T-Eu-2S
3F-2T
3Lz
She doesn't need a single 3-3 combo. She doesn't need a single quad. There's a significant host of youtube commenters, commentators, twitter accounts, etc. stating they are specifically rooting AGAINST her because of these scoring issues. The ISU is LOSING viewers over this. In case you don't just hang out on Golden Skate, the judges are absolutely ruining her favorability.
What nonsense is this that you can score 254-- 8 points over the previous world record, 5 points over her score in Finlandia-- simply by taking away points for jumping content.
Could she do "just" doubles? No. But she could get away with 4 of them and not a single quad and her scores would still be competing for first place. That's ridiculous.
Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics
The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.
Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics
The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.
For fairness, let's do Aliona's WR SP/FS since they also set WRs:
Skating Scores: Latest Figure Skating Results, Scores, Rankings & Statistics
The best resource for Figure Skating scores and stats on the web.
With the same jumping layout as I gave Kamila above she gets 222.25 total. She could NOT win. And she could NOT break a world record.
Is Kamila's performance and execution really 32 points better than Aliona's? Is it really THAT much better than Anna at her best? The answer is of course no.
This is why I believe the scoring system is FUNDAMENTALLY broken. It's not any different than a 6.0 program system. If all you're doing is replacing the technical elements the remainder of the scores should remain unaffected because the remainder of the program is executed with the same cleanliness, precision, etc.
And yet someone will say "YOURE BEING UNFAIR CHANGING ONLY THE TECH SCORES BECAUSE HARDER PERFORMANCES GET BETTER PCS"
Then darling, what is the point of the technical score at all if it makes so little difference? ISU needs to seriously reevaluate their scoring system. Again. I'm an advocate as are a few others on here of reducing the PCS value to say .5 instead of .8. It would perhaps reduce subjectivity in scoring and end these stupid scoring wars.
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It is an observation. Many comments here written about how "Even if Kamila bombs the Fed will save her" etc. She knows as well as all of you she has the support of the Fed and ISU against the "second rate" Russian girls right now. That eliminates almost all pressure competing against them. If you are a PCS darling, they do everything to save you. See Zhenya. The Fed and judges can't quite so easily cover a bombed performance when you're being compared to Anna or a five quad Sasha, who are above/equal to you in BV. So in that way, there is much more intense pressure at RusNats than she has ever had.
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Nonsense. I do think some of her elements are overscored (the 3F and 3Lz, in particular), but her 4S, 4T, and 3A deserve all the GOE in the world when she lands them cleanly. No one is going to abandon the sport because the skater who is performing the best, most difficult programs is winning handily. Anyone who views Kamila unfavorably is very likely an uber fan of a close competitor.
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As I've stated in this thread before-- I don't care who wins if it is not Aliona. There's no stake for me as a fan because well, Aliona is a long shot this season. I wasn't really referring to her jumps even as being overscored (which they are, except her 4S and 3A) but rather her PCS. As done in the calculator-- I didn't change any of her other elements-- just the jumps. I didn't change PCS/GOE. She still received a winning score. That was my point.
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Just to be clear on what I wrote, I think the U.S. Olympic selection process is superior not because it rewards skaters for past accomplishments, but because it allows the country to make the shrewdest decisions, using all available data points, about who to send to the Olympics. Constraining your decision to the statistically insignificant results of a single event, with limited flexibility beyond that, is an asinine approach.
With a freakish RusNats, Russia could be stuck with an Olympic team of Maiia, Sasha, and Aliona, three girls who are incredibly talented, but also incredibly inconsistent and unpredictable, and are just as capable of imploding in Beijing as they are putting up big scores. If I were Japan, Korea, U.S., or even Belgium, I'd love Russia to make this mistake, as it would open up a potential path to the podium for them.
If Russia sends Kami, Anya, and Liza on the other hand, three skaters who are on the whole much more reliable and consistent (even if they were to have a one-off event like RusNats were they struggled), the likelihood of them sweeping the Olympic podium would be higher.
And surely sweeping the Olympic podium is RusFed's ultimate goal here?
(Also, this has nothing to do with U.S. skaters or performance being superior to those of Russia. Obviously, Russia has superior talent. I'm solely referring to the Olympics and Worlds team selection processes. As someone pointed out, the fact that U.S. has three Olympic spots despite their lack of talent is evidence in itself that their approach is a savvy one.)
(And, yes, I realize RusFed can exert it influence on the outcome of RusNats by bending PCS and GOEs so to favor the skaters it wants to send to Beijing, but what a silly, disingenuous game to play as opposed to simply saying, "We're going to weigh several factors, and not just the results of RusNats, is making our Olympic team decision.")
With a freakish RusNats, Russia could be stuck with an Olympic team of Maiia, Sasha, and Aliona, three girls who are incredibly talented, but also incredibly inconsistent and unpredictable, and are just as capable of imploding in Beijing as they are putting up big scores. If I were Japan, Korea, U.S., or even Belgium, I'd love Russia to make this mistake, as it would open up a potential path to the podium for them.
If Russia sends Kami, Anya, and Liza on the other hand, three skaters who are on the whole much more reliable and consistent (even if they were to have a one-off event like RusNats were they struggled), the likelihood of them sweeping the Olympic podium would be higher.
And surely sweeping the Olympic podium is RusFed's ultimate goal here?
(Also, this has nothing to do with U.S. skaters or performance being superior to those of Russia. Obviously, Russia has superior talent. I'm solely referring to the Olympics and Worlds team selection processes. As someone pointed out, the fact that U.S. has three Olympic spots despite their lack of talent is evidence in itself that their approach is a savvy one.)
(And, yes, I realize RusFed can exert it influence on the outcome of RusNats by bending PCS and GOEs so to favor the skaters it wants to send to Beijing, but what a silly, disingenuous game to play as opposed to simply saying, "We're going to weigh several factors, and not just the results of RusNats, is making our Olympic team decision.")
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