Peacock Documentary “Meddling”

[RoundedBackCamel]

I’ve just binged the first two on my phone. I’m def team Elena and Anton and have been since watching in 2002. I can’t help thinking “suck it up, Buttercup” to Sale. Try again in four years like Elena and Anton did.

The scoring system since then may have improved, but inflated scores and judges wanting to prop up skaters happens at nearly every competition to this day. I think a lot of our personal faves have benefited from an inflated score here and there. I know mine has.

The doc def has a Western bias, but at least it’s not lit to show Russia as dark and evil. I didn’t see barbed wire, but they did have the shot of the crows flying around the onion domes, the classic footage I think I’ve seen in every depiction of Russia in skating, lol. And where are the inevitable shots of imposing statues of Lenin?

There is also a home team advantage in every Olys. How else to explain a quadless gold in SLC and a win by Evan? Where is the expose on that? How about the Tara’s nondowngaded flutz? (Yes, I know she produced this series, and I am able to put animus aside and admit this is good.)

And ofc the gold by Sotnikova in Sochi. (I really felt for her. She said she was so happy she won gold and as she skated around to cheers she had no idea there was massive controversy.)

This will always happen. The argument about crowd reaction as deciding who wins the gold is ridiculous. If I went by crowd reaction to the short program at the US Nats in Nashville I attended, Gracie would be in first, Mariah in second, and Karen in third. Alyssa would have been sixth. Amber maybe fifth from sheer will of what people wanted for her.

Also, Nathan was great. He deserved to win and I am so happy he changed his program, but that ridiculous score with two falls?

That fact is, skating judging is as subjective as the Oscars. Sometimes judging is swayed because of what people want to happen, whose “turn” it to win, who is expected to win regardless of performance that day, what country it is held in, and many other factors.

In Gymnastics, by contrast, it seems that someone can blow a competition with a stumble or a fall or an out-of-bounds call. Skating is much more forgiving. It wasn’t long ago when the Oly medals were won in a splatfest of attempted quads. Glad they changed that rule so that people who couldn’t remotely do one even in practice would get credit for rotation!

The insufferable person in the doc is def Sandra Bezic. When I hear her, I think of a criticism of a long-time NPR reporter I once read: somehow she has the ability to talk down her nose and through it at the same time.

Looking forward to Part 3!

 

[katymay]

I once made the suggestion that if figures were to be re-introduced, having computer analysis and automated scoring would make it much more interesting, and that would remove the perception (right or wrong) that judges used figures to manipulate outcomes.

And to those who believe nobody would watch that... I also pointed out that people watch children's spelling bees and adult beanbag throwing on ESPN... neither of which I can fathom investing five minutes to view.

I would love for figures to be reintroduced-as a separate discipline. It could be judged very well with overhead cameras and higher tech than the olden days. AND older people, people with different body types, could/would participate.

 

[BlackAxel]

I’ve just binged the first two on my phone. I’m def team Elena and Anton and have been since watching in 2002. I can’t help thinking “suck it up, Buttercup” to Sale. Try again in four years like Elena and Anton did.

The scoring system since then may have improved, but inflated scores and judges wanting to prop up skaters happens at nearly every competition to this day. I think a lot of our personal faves have benefited from an inflated score here and there. I know mine has.

The doc def has a Western bias, but at least it’s not lit to show Russia as dark and evil. I didn’t see barbed wire, but they did have the shot of the crows flying around the onion domes, the classic footage I think I’ve seen in every depiction of Russia in skating, lol. And where are the inevitable shots of imposing statues of Lenin?

There is also a home team advantage in every Olys. How else to explain a quadless gold in SLC and a win by Evan? Where is the expose on that? How about the Tara’s nondowngaded flutz? (Yes, I know she produced this series, and I am able to put animus aside and admit this is good.)

And ofc the gold by Sotnikova in Sochi. (I really felt for her. She said she was so happy she won gold and as she skated around to cheers she had no idea there was massive controversy.)

This will always happen. The argument about crowd reaction as deciding who wins the gold is ridiculous. If I went by crowd reaction to the short program at the US Nats in Nashville I attended, Gracie would be in first, Mariah in second, and Karen in third. Alyssa would have been sixth. Amber maybe fifth from sheer will of what people wanted for her.

Also, Nathan was great. He deserved to win and I am so happy he changed his program, but that ridiculous score with two falls?

That fact is, skating judging is as subjective as the Oscars. Sometimes judging is swayed because of what people want to happen, whose “turn” it to win, who is expected to win regardless of performance that day, what country it is held in, and many other factors.

In Gymnastics, by contrast, it seems that someone can blow a competition with a stumble or a fall or an out-of-bounds call. Skating is much more forgiving. It wasn’t long ago when the Oly medals were won in a splatfest of attempted quads. Glad they changed that rule so that people who couldn’t remotely do one even in practice would get credit for rotation!

The insufferable person in the doc is def Sandra Bezic. When I hear her, I think of a criticism of a long-time NPR reporter I once read: somehow she has the ability to talk down her nose and through it at the same time.

Looking forward to Part 3!

Just wanted to point out that Evan Lysacek won the OGM in Vancouver. I believe Tara won hers in Nagano, Japan.

 

[RoundedBackCamel]

Just wanted to point out that Evan Lysacek won the OGM in Vancouver. I believe Tara won hers in Nagano, Japan.

Oh, you’re right, of course . I’ve completely undermined my own argument. Let me try to salvage it by saying that if it weren’t for Plushy’s fall, we might have had another West vs. East style preference. Plushy’s routine was very Russian. Yagudin, OTOH, assumed a very Western-style routine (even down to the surfer-dude glow-up of a tan and bleached hair) and made a concerted effort charm audiences in US and Canada. I remember commentators gushing over him, particularly about how he moved his mother to the US and loved it here and in Canada (which we later learned was bs). If you want to ingratiate yourself with an American, tell them how great their country is. No snark. I am one, but I’ve noticed this my whole life. Americans also have a slight inferiority complex to more sophisticated Europeans and Brits, thus the criticisms against them (kinda like the North/South thing here).

Forgive my stream-of-consciousness ramblings. I usually write these late at night right before I fall asleep.

 

[moonvine]

This will always happen. The argument about crowd reaction as deciding who wins the gold is ridiculous. If I went by crowd reaction to the short program at the US Nats in Nashville I attended, Gracie would be in first, Mariah in second, and Karen in third. Alyssa would have been sixth. Amber maybe fifth from sheer will of what people wanted for her.

Also, Nathan was great. He deserved to win and I am so happy he changed his program, but that ridiculous score with two falls?

That fact is, skating judging is as subjective as the Oscars. Sometimes judging is swayed because of what people want to happen, whose “turn” it to win, who is expected to win regardless of performance that day, what country it is held in, and many other factors.

In Gymnastics, by contrast, it seems that someone can blow a competition with a stumble or a fall or an out-of-bounds call. Skating is much more forgiving. It wasn’t long ago when the Oly medals were won in a splatfest of attempted quads. Glad they changed that rule so that people who couldn’t remotely do one even in practice would get credit for rotation!

The insufferable person in the doc is def Sandra Bezic. When I hear her, I think of a criticism of a long-time NPR reporter I once read: somehow she has the ability to talk down her nose and through it at the same time.

Looking forward to Part 3!

This is the best idea ever. Can we please go back and re score it by crowd reaction? I approve.

I’m privileged to have seen Nathan and Simone Biles compete. They’re otherworldly. And their difficulty is such that they can score very high (and most likely win) even with serious errors. I went back and watched the tech box and he got in excess of 40 points for 2 jumping passes. That’s crazy! And when you score like that getting negative GOE on a step sequence worth 5 points just doesn’t matter. Nor do falls at 1 point each.

When gymnastics score was maximum 10 points, a step out or a fall could completely ruin one’s chances of winning. A tenth of a point was crucial. I’ll never forget Kim Zmeskal. One foot out of bounds at the Olympics and that was it.

Now, there is no maximum score. So if a person has difficulty level 16 and their competitors have difficulty level 14 there is a lot of room for error.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Is it premium (paid) content?

I think I pay $5 a month and $5 to not have commercials. There may be a trial period. You can quit at any time.

 

[moonvine]

I think I pay $5 a month and $5 to not have commercials. There may be a trial period. You can quit at any time.

Right..but if it is paid content a person has to set up an account and most likely will require a US billing address.

 

[sjchilly]

I haven't and probably won't watch the Peacock docudrama. I don't know if they cover the Grand Prix Final as setting the stage for the Olympics. I do remember watching the pair's competitions. At the time I though Shen and Zhao could have won the gold. I really like their throw jumps. Way back in those 6.0 dark ages previous competition finishes mattered even more than today. The Grand Prix Final in Ontario in December 2001 had one short program and two long programs and it was thought that the results would be the same at the Olympics unless a skater or team made mistakes or greatly improved. Jamie and David defeated Elena and Anton in the short and one long to finish in first. I believe they got 6.0 for "Love Story" and that is the reason they used it instead of "Daphnis and Chloe". The medalists across the figure skating events at the Olympics and Grand Prix Final held accept for Ice Dance. (Lobacheva and Averbukh had not skated in the Grand Prix and finished second at the Olympics. Bourne and Kraatz dropped from first at the Grand Prix to off the podium at the Olympics).

 

[CaroLiza_fan]

Is this documentary available anywhere else besides Peacock? I can't subscribe or watch since I'm in Canada.

No. It is a Peacock Original - produced and owned by Peacock - sorry

Just popping in to let you know that, because Sky and NBCUniversal now have the same ownership, the international version of Peacock launced on Sky in November.

I just checked to see if this documentary was on it. It isn't.

Have to say, apart from a couple of films that I have wanted to see for ages, I am not at all inspired by the content on the version of Peacock that is available in the UK.

Hopefully it will improve in the months and years to come.

CaroLiza_fan

 

[moonvine]

Just popping in to let you know that, because Sky and NBCUniversal now have the same ownership, the international version of Peacock launced on Sky in November.

I just checked to see if this documentary was on it. It isn't.

Have to say, apart from a couple of films that I have wanted to see for ages, I am not at all inspired by the content on the version of Peacock that is available in the UK.

Hopefully it will improve in the months and years to come.

CaroLiza_fan

I hope y’all can eventually access everything.

 

[moonvine]

Literally. Scott, Sandra and who was the other guy? Are acting like someone just died.

 

[ChiGal]

JMHO...I found the revisit of this judging scandal interesting. I watched all three parts, and looking forward to part 4. I remember watching the 2002 SLC Olympics and all that went on with figure skating. One question...how are the Russian and French federations even allowed to judge anymore? You can't blame the skaters for this, even though I preferred the Canadian pair's program. This did bring forth a radical change in scoring, which for this long-time figure skating fan, was LOOOOng overdue.

 

[moonvine]

I can’t believe the “episodes” are so short. It’s lIke they took a movie and cut it into 4 parts. I guess it’s to generate excitement about the Olympics..though if one is trying to generate excitement about the Olympics I’m pretty confused as to how a documentary about *cheating at the Olympics* is going to do that.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

Just wanted to point out that Evan Lysacek won the OGM in Vancouver. I believe Tara won hers in Nagano, Japan.

Yeah, SLC was 2002 and that was Sarah Hughes. 98 was Nagano Tara Lipinski and 2010 was Vancouver Lysacek.

 

[CoyoteChris]

I can’t believe the “episodes” are so short. It’s lIke they took a movie and cut it into 4 parts. I guess it’s to generate excitement about the Olympics..though if one is trying to generate excitement about the Olympics I’m pretty confused as to how a documentary about *cheating at the Olympics* is going to do that.

They are set up for commericals...I dont watch those nasty things but on rabbit ears broadcast stations, there are about 20 min. of commericals an hour. Thankfully, I pay on streaming to NOT get commercials....

 

[CoyoteChris]

JMHO...I found the revisit of this judging scandal interesting. I watched all three parts, and looking forward to part 4. I remember watching the 2002 SLC Olympics and all that went on with figure skating. One question...how are the Russian and French federations even allowed to judge anymore? You can't blame the skaters for this, even though I preferred the Canadian pair's program. This did bring forth a radical change in scoring, which for this long-time figure skating fan, was LOOOOng overdue.

Its political and we cant talk politics here, so I will send you a Personal message explaining what happened. Also see my link to the toe tapping scandal.

 

[moonvine]

JMHO...I found the revisit of this judging scandal interesting. I watched all three parts, and looking forward to part 4. I remember watching the 2002 SLC Olympics and all that went on with figure skating. One question...how are the Russian and French federations even allowed to judge anymore? You can't blame the skaters for this, even though I preferred the Canadian pair's program. This did bring forth a radical change in scoring, which for this long-time figure skating fan, was LOOOOng overdue.

I don’t think it would be a good thing to keep people from a country from judging forever because the Federation cheated 20 years ago.

Just my opinion.

I also don’t think the original version of the “new” system would have prevented cheating - when you didn’t know who the judges were.

 

[GGFan]

I'm so happy this documentary is taking me back to the lead up to 1998. I was absolutely obsessed with Elena and Anton in Nagano and was devastated when they lost. Just watching their crossovers gave me life!

 

[mrrice]

This is the best idea ever. Can we please go back and re score it by crowd reaction? I approve.

I’m privileged to have seen Nathan and Simone Biles compete. They’re otherworldly. And their difficulty is such that they can score very high (and most likely win) even with serious errors. I went back and watched the tech box and he got in excess of 40 points for 2 jumping passes. That’s crazy! And when you score like that getting negative GOE on a step sequence worth 5 points just doesn’t matter. Nor do falls at 1 point each.

When gymnastics score was maximum 10 points, a step out or a fall could completely ruin one’s chances of winning. A tenth of a point was crucial. I’ll never forget Kim Zmeskal. One foot out of bounds at the Olympics and that was it.



Now, there is no maximum score. So if a person has difficulty level 16 and their competitors have difficulty level 14 there is a lot of room for error.

Poor Kim Zmeskal, she was never the same after the Olympics. She was touted as the overwhelming favorite going and you could see it in her face by the end of meet, she was devastated.

 

[GGFan]

I'm glad that it was acknowledged at least that B/S's program was a bit more difficult and fresher. I don't like when they portray it as if there was no way you could put the Russians first. It easily could have been B/S 5.7, 5.9 and S/P 5.8, 5.8 with that second mark being the tie-breaker. The crazy thing is that there were skaters who had been robbed much worse than Jamie and David, but they were fortunate that this captured everyone's attention.