Interview with Alexander Lakernik on rule changes

[el henry]

4.5 billion years old and still doing full revolutions.

Touché

 

[moriel]

Thank you for the translation, Moriel.

And I will leave others to discuss Zhenya and the remainder of the mentions (it is peculiar, but everyone everywhere wants to generate clicks, *but* I sure hope the reference to Lysacek, and of course, Jason, was respectful. (Although if they are held up as an example of quality over quantity, then :agree

Otherwise, them's fighting words

Yep, they are just held as example of high quality but low risc skating.
Nothing negative about that.

 

[dorispulaski]

Thank you, moriel, for the excellent translation.

Is there any Russian interview available about this next season's ice dance rules? I would be interested to hear what knowledgeable Russians had to say about them.

 

[moriel]

Thank you, moriel, for the excellent translation.

Is there any Russian interview available about this next season's ice dance rules? I would be interested to hear what knowledgeable Russians had to say about them.

keeping an eye, but i didnt see anything good so far.

 

[Nilf]

I was merely surprised on the comment that making underrotation calls less strict would favour Medvedeva especially. Isn‘t she like the most consistent skater for years now? I mean, this season was a bit of an exception but I can‘t remember her underrotating much, she fell more but UR? During Worlds, yes and a couple of jumps here and there. But not something major. Just a bit to single her out like that.

The interviewer knows that Medvedeva had a lot of URs and called edges and that penalty was lightened for edges also. Tuktamysheva vs Medvedeva (technically good skater vs not good) is just personification for the Russian public. Especially considering last fight for a team spot.

 

[icetug]

Interviewer: I'm asking more about the public replays. In hockey, the judge announces the decision to the entire venue, in tennis everyone sees where the ball landed. In figure skating, is it possible for viewers to see the same picture as the judges, so that the decision will be explained to them?

Lakernik: I do not know. And I do not know whether it is necessary. If a lot of people start watching the same thing, chaos arises. Too many opinions.

I'm confused. I've never seen any chaos after showing in a reply a tennis ball landing in/out the court. It's not an opinion. It's fact.

 

[SnowWhite]

I'm confused. I've never seen any chaos after showing in a reply a tennis ball landing in/out the court. It's not an opinion. It's fact.

That's true about tennis. On the other hand, he's not wrong about hockey (the NHL at least).

 

[icetug]

That's true about tennis. On the other hand, he's not wrong about hockey (the NHL at least).

I'm not familiar with hockey (even with NHL ) so I can't imagine why one doesn't see on replay what actually happened on ice and needs interpretation. Might FS cause similar problems?

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Interviewer: How is it determined that a person will get one or two competitions?

Lakernik: There is a group of Grand Prix, consisting of representatives of six countries, and there is distribution. There are delegates from Russia, as well as from United States, Canada, France, Japan and China. On june 19-20, they will meet and decide. The question is so difficult that I forgot about the navigator and missed a turn (laughs)

Interviewer: I thought you were taking taxi most of the time.

Lakernik: I cannot always afford it.

Absolutely ROFL



I’ve always appreciated the nature of Lakernik’s interviews. Thanks so much for translating

 

[Mathman]

I'm not familiar with hockey (even with NHL ) so I can't imagine why one doesn't see on replay what actually happened on ice and needs interpretation. Might FS cause similar problems?

With respect to unnder-rotations, I think this point made by Lakernik is the most telling.

Theoretically, a double jump is 720 degrees. But in practice it is less, everyone jumps from an arc and does not land on a straight line. An underrotation is built into the jump.

In principle, if someone wanted to put up the money, it would be possible to get more accurate measurements. But I think that there would still be debate about what constitues a well-performed jump.

 

[flanker]

I'm not familiar with hockey (even with NHL ) so I can't imagine why one doesn't see on replay what actually happened on ice and needs interpretation. Might FS cause similar problems?

When there is decision made via video judge, it is not allowed to replay the situation in the arena to avoid any influence by the spectators on the decision.

 

[rosy14]

With respect to unnder-rotations, I think this point made by Lakernik is the most telling.



In principle, if someone wanted to put up the money, it would be possible to get more accurate measurements. But I think that there would still be debate about what constitues a well-performed jump.

A well performed jump is one thing, much more complex to assess, than a well rotated jump. It would simply suffice an electronic goniometer to calculate the grades of rotation.
It's not a matter of money, but politics.

 

[Mathman]

A well performed jump is one thing, much more complex to assess, than a well rotated jump. It would simply suffice an electronic goniometer to calculate the grades of rotation.

It's not a matter of money, but politics.

I think that the problem lies not in measuring angles, but in determining the exact moment that the twirling skating leaves the ice and the exact orientation of the blade at that instant, and again for the landing. An ambiguity of a fifth of a second -- is he completely clear of the ice? Is the blade supporting any weight at this precise moment? Is the long axis of the blade advanced or lagging a few degrees compared to the skater's approach path? -- translates into a measurement error of 30 degrees or more.

Granted, quantum physicists can time reactions on the order of a quintillionth of a second, and physical chemists in a laboratory can measure the angles in a crystal with impressive detail. But in my humble opinion someone (the ISU?) would really, really, really have tocare about this before anything will happen.

I believe that if the ISU did obtain accurate measurements of the number of degrees that skaters actually rotate in the air, everyone would be surprised and disappointed. The average "triple jump" (supposedly 1080 degrees) would probably turn out to be closer to 810 degrees, for a "fully rotated" triple, and often less.

Maybe the ISU does not want to be embarrassed.

 

[Vanshilar]

Actually even what counts as a "well-rotated jump" is difficult to define and to measure. It's easy to colloquially say, the angle of the blade when it hits the ice compared with the skater's direction of travel. But how do you measure those things? A skater's center of mass is traveling in a ballistic trajectory during a jump, but that skater's body is not staying in the same shape while in the air. How do you define just what that direction of travel is?

The simplest might be to say something like, draw an imaginary line from where the takeoff tracing ends, to where the landing tracing begins. But 1) where the takeoff tracing ends, i.e. the pivot, is *not* under the center of mass during takeoff, and 2) half the jumps have a tracing *and* a tap. So determining that direction of travel is ambiguous.

On the landing, how do you define at what point in time do you measure the rotation of the blade relative to that direction of travel? If you say "when any part of the skate first touches the ice", then you are encouraging skaters to land flat-footed, since they can eke out more rotations that way (yes, the extra several inches from pointing vs flexing the foot on landing, resulting in slightly more air time to rotate, can give you significantly more rotations). That would lead to bad technique and more injuries, and effectively punish those who point their toes to properly cushion their landings.

The more you try to unambiguously define what a "well-rotated jump" means physically, in a way that makes it measurable, the more difficult the questions you have to grapple with. Alternatively, you can go with some other measure, such as the number of degrees that the skater rotated in the air. But there aren't any easy answers on this.

 

[Mathman]

On the landing, how do you define at what point in time do you measure the rotation of the blade relative to that direction of travel? If you say "when any part of the skate first touches the ice", then you are encouraging skaters to land flat-footed, since they can eke out more rotations that way.

I think a good example is to compare Mirai Nagasu's triple Axel with Rika Kihira's.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/d0511b6b675474e1e241022873e04ae3/tumblr_p40ms9zHr11v5blnqo1_500.gif

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owK6Ik5GUJ4

 

[karne]

*annoyed table thump*

So the spineless ISU has given in to all the whinging and moaning from the poor-technique crowd. Instead of holding firm and saying, no, we will punish UR harshly, if you don't like it go fix your jumps, they've given in like worms and gone oh okay, don't bother fixing your sloppy URs then, and you skaters who've put in the effort to have good technique, well sucks to be you that you have derived no advantage from it.

 

[Mathman]

^ But tell us what you really think.

 

[amonemae]

Thank you, Moriel. Very interesting interview.

Is the interviewer against Medvedeva for some reason, or he he just asking general quetions?

I was also interested in this line about Grand Prix selections:



This makes it seem like the athletes have the biggest voice. I was under the impression that the host federation gets to invite the skater that they want (and furthemore, that sometimes federations deliberately choose to invite the medalist that they think is least likely to beat the home country champion, or the one that they think will be the biggest local audience draw.)

When Mr. Lakernik says that the skaters can negotiate, does he mean with each other, or with the host fereration? Can the host offer money under the table to a skater to attend their event? Can one federation "negotiate" with another so that the champion's federation will "send" her to a particular event, independent of the skatter's personal preference?

Not all athletes, just the reigning World Champs and to a certain extent, the silver and bronze medalists. From what I remember, World Champs get to pick their GPs and then we go down the line of all medalists. Then it comes down to the feds and whatever shenanigans they have going on (in my mind, they're all at a round table and just rock-paper-scissoring for it haha)

 

[SnowWhite]

Not all athletes, just the reigning World Champs and to a certain extent, the silver and bronze medalists. From what I remember, World Champs get to pick their GPs and then we go down the line of all medalists. Then it comes down to the feds and whatever shenanigans they have going on (in my mind, they're all at a round table and just rock-paper-scissoring for it haha)

Well actually, the host picks are first. Then the medalists have a say. So for example, if Tessa and Scott had wanted IdF in 2017, they wouldn't have gotten it, even after winning Worlds, because the French fed would already have picked P/C. After that, they place the other seeded skaters (4-6) and the rest of the guaranteed spots, etc.

 

[Mathman]

(in my mind, they're all at a round table and just rock-paper-scissoring for it haha)

It's The Room Where It Happens.