Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Draculus]

From Twitter:

my mom and i are watching olympic ice and they go “vincent zhou tested positive for covid and couldn’t compete” and my mom goes “if only he had tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, then he could’ve competed”

Let that sink in.

No, he also needs to be 15 years old and his test has to be delayed for 1.5 months and arrives in the middle of the Olympics.

Not even mentioning that Covid is a deadly disease dangerous also for all around you, so, yes it is much safer to be tested positive for a substance that has 0 scientific peer-reviewed papers that show it's effect for the athlete performance.

 

[Draculus]

Am I right to regrad such drugs as being in the same category as vitamin pills, gatorade (advertised as helping you recover more quickly after an exhaustive effort) -- or for that matter, just a diet of healthy natural foods?

I think they are a little bit more than just a "diet of natural food", vitamin pills is much closer.
Kind of 'vitamin' but not 'vital'.

 

[el henry]

So little Tara is outraged.

Would you like a list of all the persons in the skating community who are outraged:

I'll start with Polina Edmunds, a skater with no connection at all to Russia






There are many, many other former and current skaters with the same reaction. If you would like, rather than spam the thread, I could send them to you by PM.

 

[randomCanadian]

my mom and i are watching olympic ice and they go “vincent zhou tested positive for covid and couldn’t compete” and my mom goes “if only he had tested positive for performance enhancing drugs, then he could’ve competed”

Covid is a non-specified substance, prohibited at all times (in- and out-of-competition)...

Just kidding... I enjoy pretending I'm an idiot!

 

[silveruskate]

For sure, it certainly makes a mockery of Team Crystal's claim they treat all girls the same.

They're more than willing to throw Sasha's and Anna's Olympic moments under the bus to cater to Kamila.

Perhaps this is guilt because they've been doping her without her knowledge like some science experiment. On the one hand that's horrific, on the other hand at least it would mean the rest of the Crystal girls are clean.

Do athletes get a say? For Adam Rippon he said his Olympic moment was on the ice. The podium was more for the coaches and other people that helped him.

It’s a little odd that you keep accusing the New York Times and other US media for causing all of Kamila’s problems. Her problem is that she tested positive, not what people are saying. She hasn’t denied testing positive and her mother has offered a pretty implausible suggestion as to the reason why.

This article includes comments by the US anti-doping chief. Among other things, he states that (1) the amount of TMZ found was not minuscule; (2) the offered excuse, “seems to be seriously undermined” by her use of the two legal substances — because it’s unlikely that the use of a third substance that serves a similar purpose would be accidental and coincidental,” and (3) USADA has previously tried to have hypoxen banned.

'Serious questions’ raised about Kamila Valieva's ‘grandfather’ excuse

Kamila Valieva's 'grandfather' explanation is a 'long shot,' according to USA's anti-doping chief.

sports.yahoo.com

So I'm not allowed to comment on the articles from the day as it displeases you? Maybe if you find it odd it's something to do with you and not me.

 

[Draculus]

Caffeine is not prohibited. Neither is nicotine.
"
Bupropion, caffeine, nicotine, phenylephrine, phenylpropanolamine, pipradrol, and synephrine: These substances are included in the 2022 Monitoring Program and are not considered Prohibited Substances."

Well, they had meldonium in 2015 Monitoring Program, found out that many ppl use it and decided to ban it from 2016 because why not to ban things that are used by athletes? You need nothing else.

 

[iceskater10]

Depends on how you look at it. Some will argue that if she is already on a legal medication that promotes oxygen flow to the heart (not L-carnithine of course, but the other one, i forgot the name) and the one she duly reported - what's the point of consuming a banned medication that has more or less the same effect? Not sure if it makes sense medically and if not, this argument can be used in her defence.

Nope!

 

[Amei]

In my opinion not imposing provisional suspension on KV is a giant disservice to her and her coaches, since it caused so much controversy and attracted unprecedented attention. Now KV and Eteri are hated and/or ridiculed, even in Russia after the grandpa story came out, internationally all their talents are belittled, their achievements have lost any value, their reputation is in shambles. A skater of incredible talent has been made a face of Russian doping. That's what I call irreparable harm.

We also don't know which impact it will have on KV as an individual and as a skater, given that she's very young and vulnerable. Julia Lipnitskaja broke down totally due to the overwhelming positive attention after her Olympics.

I am afraid Kamila is done. Thanks to the "gift" of letting her compete. In my opinion this decision was not taken in her best interests, rather the opposite.

She and her coaching team appealed to have the suspension rescinded so they got the ball rolling on this fiasco. Even after it was ruled she could compete, the blowback was fairly swift and the decision could have been made to step away even though she was 'allowed' to compete by CAS. Put out a statement that she vehemently stands by her assertion that the positive test was due to an accidental ingestion, but she realizes her presence due to this situation is harming the sport she loves so she is withdrawing from the individual event so all of her fellow competitors can shine and have the Olympic experience they came for and she hopes to have it in 2026.

*i don't think it happens but that would be the best way to end this for her. Because at this point even if she is later cleared of it, everyone will remember her positive doping test in connection with these Olympics.

 

[Tavi...]

Do athletes get a say? For Adam Rippon he said his Olympic moment was on the ice. The podium was more for the coaches and other people that helped him.

So I'm not allowed to comment on the articles from the day as it displeases you? Maybe if you find it odd it's something to do with you and not me.

I hope you enjoy the article.

 

[el henry]

To me it seems like the business about the other heart drugs is being used to paint an unflattering picture of the skater as being a person who stuffs herself with artificial aids to performance willi-niili.

I would not say "paint an unflattering picture" because that appears derogatory to the reporting. And the reporting is not the issue.

A positive test for a banned substance is the issue, and complaining about reporting from here until Sunday won't change that.

And just for me, I would say they are there to report completely on what was in the WADA document and to raise questions.

 

[silveruskate]

I hope you enjoy the article.

It's irrelevant to me.

 

[Tavi...]

It's irrelevant to me.

Well, you know what they always say: you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.

 

[Draculus]

I am afraid Kamila is done. Thanks to the "gift" of letting her compete. In my opinion this decision was not taken in her best interests, rather the opposite.

Cry all over the world's mass media hardly affect her, most important thing for Kamilla is how ppl around her act. How Russian media acts, etc.
And Russians are SO overwhelmingly positive towards her that "foreign" media cannot overcome it for her, no way.

And also it depends A LOT of what actually happened. If she 100% sure that she did nothing wrong - the fact that she competes could not affect her worse than if she would not.

 

[ChiGal]

Western media pressure is the last thing she cares about now. It could become in the future when talking about endorsements.

No reputable company is going to endorse her at this point. They won't touch her with a 10 foot pole! She'll only be skating in a few skate shows in Russia and then fade away. Its too bad as she was a talented skater without the doping. Karma can be a bitch sometimes...

 

[Mathman]

I would not say "paint an unflattering picture" because that appears derogatory to the reporting. And the reporting is not the issue.

A positive test for a banned substance is the issue, and complaining about reporting from here until won't change that.

And just for me, I would say they are there to report completely on what was in the WADA document and to raise questions.

I am not complaining about what reporters uncover and report on. I am just curious about onlookers who say, "See? See? What did I tell you!" In this instance I do know what it is I am supposed to be seeing.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Well, they had meldonium in 2015 Monitoring Program, found out that many ppl use it and decided to ban it from 2016 because why not to ban things that are used by athletes? You need nothing else.

Possibly, but at least in figure skating we had an example of "the power" of Meldonium,
when Liza dominated an entire season competing way more than the usual amount,
followed by a season where she was a shadow of herself, and she was one of the people who said
they had to get off Meldonuim, not to suggest that this is for sure the only reason but still,
it's a less theoretical suggestion than claiming substances are just banned for kicks when
it's discovered that athletes use them

Anyway Liza recovered and became the queen once again, now if only everyone else
had followed her lead (allegedly ) maybe she wouldn't be the only World champion in modern history
to never be an Olympian right now.

 

[silveruskate]

Well, you know what they always say: you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.

Well, where did I keep accusing the US media of causing all of Kamila's problems? If you treat my words in bad faith don't expect me to care for yours.

 

[Sloopy]

Maybe in Russia or Eastern Europe? Although I can't tell if you're kidding (seriously, again I'm not trying to be rude or snarky).

Not here in the US. No one among casual fans remembers the team event or cares.

It's all Nathan, all the time, when it comes to skating, and the TE ....pffft. You couldn't get a million people to say they remember it. or what medals were involved

Besides the fact, that millions and millions of US citizens are not watching the Olympics -- ratings are at an all time low, including figure skating which is usually the flag bearer of winter sports during the Olympic Games. They could give a rat's butt, as someone else nicely put it, about what is going on with this doping scandal.

 

[anonymoose_au]

And Russians are SO overwhelmingly positive towards her that "foreign" media cannot overcome it for her, no way.

But that just makes things worse for all Russian athletes if the case is upheld and Kamila loses her medals.

People will point to their reactions and say "You see? All Russians are cheaters, they just care if they're caught, they're probably all doping with some undetectable drugs. Throw them out of all sports, wipe them from the record books."

I'm not saying the should condemn Kamila, of course not but RUSADA could have taken a stand here and shown that Russians DO care about fair play and clean sport. Instead they let national pride take over. The Russian Figure Skating Federation could have insisted that in these circumstances Kamila needed to withdraw.

In this situation where there's an actual positive test rather than unfounded rumours this was a foolhardy approach to take.

 

[4everchan]

Very informative and insightful observation here.

except that it's not the correct info
1) what is true : if the test happens during the games, then the IOC can apply the suspension for the games.
2) when the test happens outside of the games, there is no such as "an old" test like it was said by that poster... what happens is that there is a provisional ban on the athlete. The athlete cannot attend any events until a sanction is given to them.
3) RUSADA suspended Kamila, she appealed to them, they lifted the ban
4) IOC, WADA and ISU appealed to the CAS to reinstate the provisional ban
5) CAS ruled that since she is a minor, and considering she didn't have time to prepare a defense, they would let her compete but then she would need to explain how her test came positive...

Since then, it's all smoke and mirrors...

What we know, is that the test is positive for TMZ. The rest will be investigated later on. In the meantime, Kamila is allowed to compete but if she is proven guilty of doping, her medals will be stripped.

The IOC wasn't pleased, so it decided not to hold the medal ceremonies if she is on the podium.