- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
That would be Bin Yao
Ideas for Davis & White
- Thread starter ManyCairns
- Start date
That would be Bin Yao
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2007
I think sharing the same coach with the #1 team in China has hurt Pang/Tong. not in terms of their skating level, but because they can't seem to breakaway from being #2. Even after Shen/Zhao retired, the Zhangs took over as #1, not P/T. So it's possible that even after B/A retire, and D/W become the #1 USA team, they may still be the #2 team in the eyes of their coaches after V/M.
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
I've wondered about the coaching for all 3 teams -- whether it's possible to have that many in the top tier (or close to it) and really give them all the attention they need.
Hard to develop an equally compelling and equally competitive yet unique vision for not one, not two, but three top teams.
Different choreographers would certainly be a great place to start!
But even as to basics, the Shpilband/Zueva teams get a lot of criticism for needing better basics and better attention to the compulsories and original dances.
And talking about choreography and basic skating skills are all technical issues -- what about psychological ones? If there's a feeling of favoritism or you just subjectively feel you are not getting the attention you need/want, that affects things, too.
Of course, these teams have been where they are for quite some time, and ultimately of course it's up to them. But I do wonder about the situation and how successful it can be for all concerned.
Hard to develop an equally compelling and equally competitive yet unique vision for not one, not two, but three top teams.
Different choreographers would certainly be a great place to start!
But even as to basics, the Shpilband/Zueva teams get a lot of criticism for needing better basics and better attention to the compulsories and original dances.
And talking about choreography and basic skating skills are all technical issues -- what about psychological ones? If there's a feeling of favoritism or you just subjectively feel you are not getting the attention you need/want, that affects things, too.
Of course, these teams have been where they are for quite some time, and ultimately of course it's up to them. But I do wonder about the situation and how successful it can be for all concerned.
You know my first instinct was to hope that Meryl and Charlie would find different coaches but I read this interview about Matthew Gates formerly of Chalom and Gates and he and Eve trained with Igor and Liz Coates when Peter and Naomi were still competing and Tanith and Ben were just coming up the ranks.
He said that at first the competition at the rink and scattered coaching attention made him feel that all he wanted was to move away and find coaching that focused just on him- which he and Eve eventually did. But he realizes now that by leaving that competitive atmosphere he lost something- that day to day seeing what your immediate competition is up to and having to push yourself everyday. He and Eve became a bit isolated and out of touch- which might have worked back in the day and age of Torvill and Dean who regularly would shut themselves away to train away from prying eyes. But in this every point counts if you're not doing as much as the next team competitive system, it might be a deficit.
One solution might be as everyone has suggested- new choreographers. I really admire Anissina and Peizerat who searched out a new choreographer almost every season so they could explore different viewpoints. I think Tanith and Ben and Tessa and Scott have caught on to the already. Tanith and Ben went to Los Angeles to work with a dance instructor and Tessa and Scott with Cirque de Soleil. Meryl and Charlie have not explicitly stated in the press that they've searched for outside dance or choreography instruction but by seeing this in their environment I'm sure they're much too smart not to understand what they need if they're not doing it already- and we just don't know about it.
He said that at first the competition at the rink and scattered coaching attention made him feel that all he wanted was to move away and find coaching that focused just on him- which he and Eve eventually did. But he realizes now that by leaving that competitive atmosphere he lost something- that day to day seeing what your immediate competition is up to and having to push yourself everyday. He and Eve became a bit isolated and out of touch- which might have worked back in the day and age of Torvill and Dean who regularly would shut themselves away to train away from prying eyes. But in this every point counts if you're not doing as much as the next team competitive system, it might be a deficit.
One solution might be as everyone has suggested- new choreographers. I really admire Anissina and Peizerat who searched out a new choreographer almost every season so they could explore different viewpoints. I think Tanith and Ben and Tessa and Scott have caught on to the already. Tanith and Ben went to Los Angeles to work with a dance instructor and Tessa and Scott with Cirque de Soleil. Meryl and Charlie have not explicitly stated in the press that they've searched for outside dance or choreography instruction but by seeing this in their environment I'm sure they're much too smart not to understand what they need if they're not doing it already- and we just don't know about it.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2006
I think they need new choreographers also. Plus, they should look for music that they feel more comfortable with interpreting. I feel their FD music was right for them but not their OD music.
I have tons of music suggestions for them. As for soundtracks, I think Memoirs of Geisha, Elizabeth-The Golden Years, The Black Stallion, The Man from Snowy River, Far From Heaven, Guinevere (Christophe Beck 1999), Finding Neverland, Little Miss Sunshine, Lars and the Real Girl, and Pride and Prejudice might work for them.
There are some good songs on Craig Armstrong's Piano Works album. Also, just about anything that Sigur Ros does as well as Ryuichi Sakamoto and Kerry Muzzey.
As for exhibitions, I'd suggest something by Kelly Sweet, Jamie Cullum, or Jeff Buckley.
I have tons of music suggestions for them. As for soundtracks, I think Memoirs of Geisha, Elizabeth-The Golden Years, The Black Stallion, The Man from Snowy River, Far From Heaven, Guinevere (Christophe Beck 1999), Finding Neverland, Little Miss Sunshine, Lars and the Real Girl, and Pride and Prejudice might work for them.
There are some good songs on Craig Armstrong's Piano Works album. Also, just about anything that Sigur Ros does as well as Ryuichi Sakamoto and Kerry Muzzey.
As for exhibitions, I'd suggest something by Kelly Sweet, Jamie Cullum, or Jeff Buckley.
- Joined
- Feb 12, 2007
I caught the short fluff on ESPN where I think Scott says D/W's nickname is "White-Merylin." In line with this, I was thinking about the lady in the water and Arthur or Merlin. I think Meryl can do that mysterious, etherial, magical being character well. Oh, how about the Lady Arwen (elf 
) and Aragorn characters?
Watced their FD again. It brought to mind what I like about them: Meryl provides a wonderful balancing contrast to Charlie. Charlie has so much flair and people have said that he carried the OD. Well that's because the OD choreography basically has Meryl just 'waiting' for Charlie or skating behind him as he does his cool stuff. In the FD, I love Meryl's expression and there they were allowed to do stuff together. Though not enough dance holds. That would have been spectacular if given more intricacy especially since they are so capable to do difficult moves. One thing that Suzie Wynn and the British commentators said in common was "power". The raw energy just exudes from them. So I'll echo others: Get outside choreographic input and harness that energy into awesome programs.
I'm glad they didn't give up on their Eleanor Rigby FD. They were smart to keep chipping away at it. With more time, they could have done more with the OD.
I agree with missysays probably not a coaching change. They go to school in Michigan, their families/friends are there and lots of ice dance activity in town. They are probably better off staying put. They should get their coaches to 'bug' them more about their lines, stretch, pointed toes, posture and unison. Spend more off-ice time together in front of a mirror with a dance instructor.
Sorry got carried away with this one. lurking off...
) and Aragorn characters? Watced their FD again. It brought to mind what I like about them: Meryl provides a wonderful balancing contrast to Charlie. Charlie has so much flair and people have said that he carried the OD. Well that's because the OD choreography basically has Meryl just 'waiting' for Charlie or skating behind him as he does his cool stuff. In the FD, I love Meryl's expression and there they were allowed to do stuff together. Though not enough dance holds. That would have been spectacular if given more intricacy especially since they are so capable to do difficult moves. One thing that Suzie Wynn and the British commentators said in common was "power". The raw energy just exudes from them. So I'll echo others: Get outside choreographic input and harness that energy into awesome programs.
I'm glad they didn't give up on their Eleanor Rigby FD. They were smart to keep chipping away at it. With more time, they could have done more with the OD.
I agree with missysays probably not a coaching change. They go to school in Michigan, their families/friends are there and lots of ice dance activity in town. They are probably better off staying put. They should get their coaches to 'bug' them more about their lines, stretch, pointed toes, posture and unison. Spend more off-ice time together in front of a mirror with a dance instructor.
Sorry got carried away with this one. lurking off...
- Joined
- Jul 26, 2003
Don't go back to lurking. It was a very good post!
I definitely agree with the above. D/W are a very good team, but they won't be at the very top without paying attention to those details.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
I caught the short fluff on ESPN where I think Scott says D/W's nickname is "White-Merylin." In line with this, I was thinking about the lady in the water and Arthur or Merlin. I think Meryl can do that mysterious, etherial, magical being character well. Oh, how about the Lady Arwen (elf
Lord of the rings has some very good music. I really like "may it be", "requiem for a dream" and aniron-theme for aragon and arwen.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2008
This one might be a stretch, but what about Verdi's "La Forza Del Destino?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUODoiXE-0g
We're playing it in my band class and it's a powerful song. I think no matter what they should go for something with strength and power as well as softness because it will really push them (Meryl more so, because she's the softer of the two and could be a bit more aggressive at times).
The Jesus Christ Superstar idea is a wonderful idea, as is the whole idea of portraying her/him as an elf!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HUODoiXE-0g
We're playing it in my band class and it's a powerful song. I think no matter what they should go for something with strength and power as well as softness because it will really push them (Meryl more so, because she's the softer of the two and could be a bit more aggressive at times).
The Jesus Christ Superstar idea is a wonderful idea, as is the whole idea of portraying her/him as an elf!
- Joined
- Sep 2, 2003
Recently, I came across a song by Il Divo called, "I Believe in You", a duet with Celine Dion. It seemed to be the perfect song for a lot of Ice Dance teams, and I think D/W would be able to pull it off.
"I caught the short fluff on ESPN where I think Scott says D/W's nickname is "White-Merylin." In line with this, I was thinking about the lady in the water and Arthur or Merlin. I think Meryl can do that mysterious, etherial, magical being character well. Oh, how about the Lady Arwen (elf ) and Aragorn characters? "
I totally agree with Fanofskate about Merylin.
I also thought of Tinkerbell and Peterpan... when I read your post.
Musically, I thought of "Ondine" by Maurice Ravel... Ondine cannot get a soul unless they marry a human... Little Mermaid-like story maybe, I guess.
I totally agree with Fanofskate about Merylin.
I also thought of Tinkerbell and Peterpan... when I read your post.
Musically, I thought of "Ondine" by Maurice Ravel... Ondine cannot get a soul unless they marry a human... Little Mermaid-like story maybe, I guess.
- Joined
- Jul 14, 2007
I say they do something really fast and upbeat, like a rock and roll number or even a tap dance thing, that really showcases their skating skills and their superiority as technicians. But maybe Marina and Igor are saving that til the Olympics and are instead trying to bring out their artistic side more with slower numbers. What was a bit frustrating about Elinor Rigby to me was that there were a lot of "open" moments , like the ones Chris and Nicky talked about, where there were not many dance steps and holds but moments where little happened except them holding each other. To me, they were wasted minutes and I Think Marina and Igor should have given them more steps to work with.
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- Joined
- Mar 12, 2007
I really like the Ondine idea, although I don't recall hearing the music. If the music is skateable that's a _great_ concept -- classic theme to the story but not at all hackneyed. Ondine being a nymph would be perfect for Meryl.
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- Joined
- Jul 14, 2007
some more ideas
1. Verdi's Requiem
2. Castle in the Sky (Miyazaki)..Perhaps Spirited Away may work too.
3. Pas de deux (Nutcracker, Tsaichovsky)
4. Tombeau de Couperin (Ravel)
5. selections from Mamma Mia
1. Verdi's Requiem
2. Castle in the Sky (Miyazaki)..Perhaps Spirited Away may work too.
3. Pas de deux (Nutcracker, Tsaichovsky)
4. Tombeau de Couperin (Ravel)
5. selections from Mamma Mia
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Ravel's Ondine was inspired by the poem of Aloysious Bertand. When Ravel published this music he had printed the poem in front of music so that the performers can understand exactly how the music moves. I happened to find the music clip and more about the story from the following link. Enjoy!
http://franhatt.wordpress.com/2008/01/20/story-telling-in-music-ravel-and-liszt/
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2008
I love the Ondine idea!! I could totally see that.
On another note, anyone think they could go rock? Now, my favorite American team ever was Lang and Tchernyshev, and I loved their "Still Loving You" by the Scorpions. I was watching it the other day and the British commentators said they basically created their own genre and I was wondering if anyone else thought that Davis and White could go that way.
On another note, anyone think they could go rock? Now, my favorite American team ever was Lang and Tchernyshev, and I loved their "Still Loving You" by the Scorpions. I was watching it the other day and the British commentators said they basically created their own genre and I was wondering if anyone else thought that Davis and White could go that way.
Charlie's hair style reminds me of Peter T so much 
A great piece of music that rocks~
What I can think of is the brilliant arrangement of Jimmy Hendix's "Purple Haze" performed by the Kronos Quartet.
I couldn't find a decent clip... I was afraid that the one on youtube would take the real excitement away....
A great piece of music that rocks~
What I can think of is the brilliant arrangement of Jimmy Hendix's "Purple Haze" performed by the Kronos Quartet.
I couldn't find a decent clip... I was afraid that the one on youtube would take the real excitement away....
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