2023-24 Programs by Discipline | Page 44 | Golden Skate

2023-24 Programs by Discipline

Some ice dance ISU bio updates.

Diana Davis & Gleb Smolkin (GEO)
FD - Swan Lake Ballet Suite - Riccardo Muti - Pyotr Tchaikovsky; Nina's Dream - Clint Mansell - Original Soundtrack

Loicia Demougeot & Theo le Mercier (FRA)
RD - Jump On It by Apache; Why Can't We Leave Together by Sade
FD - Clair de Lune by Claude Debussy ; Waves by Chilly Gonzales, Boys Noize, Erol Alkan
Choreography - Karine Arribert-Narce, Benoit Richaud

Paulina Ramanauskaite & Deividas Kizala (LTU)
RD - I Love Rock ‘N Roll by Joan Jett & the Blackhearts; Crimson and Clover Joan Jett & the Blackhearts; Call Meby Blondie
FD - En Contra by MLNGA CLUB; Duo de Amor by Astor Piazzolla
 
CaroLiza_fan said:
Here is the exact wording of the rules:

"The theme selected for the Rhythm Dances for both Junior and Senior for the season 2023/24 is “Music and Feeling of the Eighties”. Any music is possible provided it was originally released in the decade of the 1980s. The couple should demonstrate through dance the culture and feeling/essence of this decade. The selected music may be remastered. The Rhythm Dance should NOT be skated in the style of a Free Dance. The couple must use dance movements and dance holds to interpret the chosen music from this decade."​
​

Although the word itself does not appear, there are two key sentences that appear to refer to covers.

The first, "Any music is possible provided it was originally released in the decade of the 1980s", appears to be an explicit instruction that 80's covers of earlier songs are not allowed.

The second, "The selected music may be remastered", suggests to me that they will allow later covers of songs that were originally released in the 80's.

So, I take it that Charlène, Marco and their team are looking at this second sentence in the same way that I did.

But, it looks like ISU are not being strict on this, because we have already seen programmes that do not conform to the rules (e.g. Ashlie and Atl using Run-DMC's 1986 cover of "Walk This Way", a song that was originally released in 1975 by Aerosmith).

CaroLiza_fan
Click to expand...
There was an amended communication after the July Frankfurt meeting of the ISU that reads: "Any music is possible provided *that the chosen version* was originally released in the decade of the 1980s" - which would make the Run-DMC/Aerosmith mashup (1986) ok. But should explicitly rule out the Glee cover (2012) and the Adam Lambert cover (2022) that GF are using
 
Lili1122 said:
There was an amended communication after the July Frankfurt meeting of the ISU that reads: "Any music is possible provided *that the chosen version* was originally released in the decade of the 1980s" - which would make the Run-DMC/Aerosmith mashup (1986) ok. But should explicitly rule out the Glee cover (2012) and the Adam Lambert cover (2022) that GF are using
Click to expand...

Ah, I missed that amendment. Thank you for letting me know.

Well, I'm happier now, because the way the rule was originally didn't make sense to me. In effect, it was not allowing certain songs that were actually released in the 80's, but was allowing certain songs that were released later. Which totally goes against the whole idea of the 80's theme.

So, I'm glad they changed the first sentence that I referred to to fix that part. But, the second sentence was not touched, so there is still the discrepency of allowing later covers.

Well, we may not like it or agree with it, but what Charlène and Marco are doing is allowed according to the wording of the rules.

CaroLiza_fan
 
CaroLiza_fan said:
Ah, I missed that amendment. Thank you for letting me know.

Well, I'm happier now, because the way the rule was originally didn't make sense to me. In effect, it was not allowing certain songs that were actually released in the 80's, but was allowing certain songs that were released later. Which totally goes against the whole idea of the 80's theme.

So, I'm glad they changed the first sentence that I referred to to fix that part. But, the second sentence was not touched, so there is still the discrepency of allowing later covers.

Well, we may not like it or agree with it, but what Charlène and Marco are doing is allowed according to the wording of the rules.

CaroLiza_fan
Click to expand...
I thought remastering is an engineering thing that's done related to the quality of the original - if the sound quality of the 80s source was to be cleaned up or brought to current digital standards. Which is separate from being a cover. Fear/Gibson using a later remix of Sweet Dreams by the original artists using the 80s source material vs G/F using versions recorded as recently as last year. It still seems like GF's would be against the rules, so I'm curious if any officials will care
 
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Lili1122 said:
I thought remastering is an engineering thing that's done related to the quality of the original - if the sound quality of the 80s source was to be cleaned up or brought to current digital standards. Which is separate from being a cover. Fear/Gibson using a later remix of Sweet Dreams by the original artists using the 80s source material vs G/F using versions recorded as recently as last year. It still seems like GF's would be against the rules, so I'm curious if any officials will care
Click to expand...

That would be my understanding too, but just remember that the people writing the rules are not all native English speakers. I have attempted to read some things in these official documents over the years, and the way parts of them are written can be very hard to understand because of strange wording, bad grammar, etc. So, I'm giving them a bit of slack, allowing for them using the term in a not necessarily accurate way.

Anyway, whatever they mean, I still don't agree with it. It should be the songs as they were recorded in the 80's that are skated to, not re-recordings, remixes, covers or anything like that.

CaroLiza_fan
 
CaroLiza_fan said:
That would be my understanding too, but just remember that the people writing the rules are not all native English speakers. I have attempted to read some things in these official documents over the years, and the way parts of them are written can be very hard to understand because of strange wording, bad grammar, etc. So, I'm giving them a bit of slack, allowing for them using the term in a not necessarily accurate way.

Anyway, whatever they mean, I still don't agree with it. It should be the songs as they were recorded in the 80's that are skated to, not re-recordings, remixes, covers or anything like that.

CaroLiza_fan
Click to expand...
I’m not arguing, I don’t know the history of ISU communications like you do, but I think we both agree that teams should use versions of music from the 80s. You’d think that with Kaitlyn Weaver on the ISU ice dance rules committee and for them to have taken the trouble in July to clarify that the versions of music used must be from the 80s, that this would not be an ESL issue
 
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And... F/G are native English speakers... Remastering definitely does not mean cover, so the confusion in terms of semantics does not seem very possible from their own point of view
 
SnowWhite said:
Remastering is definitely different than a cover. And by the rules, I don't think G/F's music is allowed. Although who knows if that will be enforced. But I don't understand why they'd risk it.
Click to expand...

4everchan said:
And... F/G are native English speakers... Remastering definitely does not mean cover, so the confusion in terms of semantics does not seem very possible from their own point of view
Click to expand...

You're missing my point. I'm saying that the people writing the rules may not be masters of the language they are written in, and that the skaters and their teams can take advantage of this.

It's like so many things - trying to find a loophole that you can use to allow you to do what you want to do.

Of course, there is a much simpler way - using the version of the music that does fit the spirit of the theme!

CaroLiza_fan
 
CaroLiza_fan said:
You're missing my point. I'm saying that the people writing the rules may not be masters of the language they are written in, and that the skaters and their teams can take advantage of this.

It's like so many things - trying to find a loophole that you can use to allow you to do what you want to do.

Of course, there is a much simpler way - using the version of the music that does fit the spirit of the theme!

CaroLiza_fan
Click to expand...
Not at all. If you believe for one bit that in this era, people cannot write rules properly because they don't speak English??? Fine.. fair enough. You are allowed to believe that. But the reality is that these rules got approved by a committee and the language used is clear, and remastering means remastering. Once rules are published, the language used holds truth.. and certainly, my point was that F/G speak English and in no way does remastering mean cover. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to change their music... which is no big deal for the most part in any circumstance. RD's music is often interchangeable.
 
Allowed or not I'm thrilled someone finally (decides to) skate to Adam Lambert :biggrin:

I know he's not everyone's cup of tea but his songs are fun & fresh, and I'd rather fun but a bit annoying rather than boring ;)

I hope I can see that program at least once!
 
4everchan said:
Not at all. If you believe for one bit that in this era, people cannot write rules properly because they don't speak English??? Fine.. fair enough. You are allowed to believe that. But the reality is that these rules got approved by a committee and the language used is clear, and remastering means remastering. Once rules are published, the language used holds truth.. and certainly, my point was that F/G speak English and in no way does remastering mean cover. I wouldn't be surprised if they had to change their music... which is no big deal for the most part in any circumstance. RD's music is often interchangeable.
Click to expand...

Personally, I don't believe that. But there are plenty of people that do, and are willing to chance their arm in the hope that they can get away with it. And this could be what is happening here.

Let's face it, at this stage of the season, there is nothing to lose in taking a chance. If they are pulled up on it, as you say, it's easy to substitute the acceptable version of the song. If they are not, they're sucking diesel.

The point I am making, and have been since I first read the rule, is that it is not written satisfactorily. It is too brief, and does not contain precise instructions as to what is allowed and what is not. The fact that they had to issue an amendment to expand on part of it proves that. But, they did not go far enough with this amendment. There are still grey areas. The whole thing needed to be expanded upon, not just one sentence.

I still believe that having a decade rather than a specified dance as a theme is a mistake. There is not much room for debate with a specified type of dance. Sure, some things can be bent, and have been in programmes. But, by and large, it is what it is. With this theme, it is all about keeping within the "spirit" of the decade. And how on Earth do you precisely define that in a way that can't be bent?!

The ISU were very naïve when they came up with this idea. And I would not be surprised if they don't go down this route again.

CaroLiza_fan
 
I reserve my judgement until I see the program and hear music arranged, but FINALLY a Sade in RD (slow clap mode for D/LM).
 
I don't know about other languages but in German, haha, remastered means remastered and cover means cover. There basically is no German equivalent that gets used on day-to-day basis. And I'd assume that's the case for many languages. Maybe not for Italy with their new language rules... or France... But overall, really, these terms of the music industry are pretty international and known everywhere I think.

I would think that I, as part of the team, before using a specific music, would consult somebody who can give me a definite answer if they are going to allow it in this case, even if it's not covered by the exact rules. Not sure of course if they have done that, but you wouldn't risk to have to come up with a whole new program, right?

Although I have been wondering, since some teams have 80s music for their FD as well, whether those were parts of an earlier try which got abandoned for the RD in the process but were liked too much to throw them away completely?
 
CaroLiza_fan said:
Personally, I don't believe that. But there are plenty of people that do, and are willing to chance their arm in the hope that they can get away with it. And this could be what is happening here.

Let's face it, at this stage of the season, there is nothing to lose in taking a chance. If they are pulled up on it, as you say, it's easy to substitute the acceptable version of the song. If they are not, they're sucking diesel.

The point I am making, and have been since I first read the rule, is that it is not written satisfactorily. It is too brief, and does not contain precise instructions as to what is allowed and what is not. The fact that they had to issue an amendment to expand on part of it proves that. But, they did not go far enough with this amendment. There are still grey areas. The whole thing needed to be expanded upon, not just one sentence.

I still believe that having a decade rather than a specified dance as a theme is a mistake. There is not much room for debate with a specified type of dance. Sure, some things can be bent, and have been in programmes. But, by and large, it is what it is. With this theme, it is all about keeping within the "spirit" of the decade. And how on Earth do you precisely define that in a way that can't be bent?!

The ISU were very naïve when they came up with this idea. And I would not be surprised if they don't go down this route again.

CaroLiza_fan
Click to expand...

Yes, the decade theme is unsatisfying in my eyes as well since (as I have written before) it basically means all and nothing and pretends there is an "essence of a decade" (and globally so) which starts and stops by exact dates, but personally I think they will just be quite loose in their allowance of songs and costumes and everything.
It's not even just this theme. I mean, what teams understood as Latin... uhm...
 
Some Lombardia ISU bio updates.

Makar Suntsev (FIN)
SP - Moonlight Sonata by Ludwig van Beethoven
FS - Ghosts of Japan by Derek Fiechter; Taki Burossamu Taki by That's It; The Geisha and the Samurai by Stefan Johansson; Taki Burossamu Taki by That's It; The Way of the Samurai by Ilan Eshkeri
Choreography - Adam Solya

Lara Naki Gutmann (ITA)
SP - Kiss of Death by Mandingo, Fahey; Le Serpent by Guem et Zaka; Kiss of Death by Mandingo; War Dance by Mandingo, Vickers
FS - Prelude and Rooftop ("Vertigo" soundtrack) by Bernard Herrmann; End Credit # 1 (“Hitchcock “ soundtrack) by Danny Elfman; Suite (from "Psycho") by Bernard Herrmann
Choreography - Prisca Picano, Gabriele Minchio, Riccardo Morelli

Lucrezia Beccari & Matteo Guarise (ITA)
SP - Run by Ludovico Einaudi
FS - Macavity by Graham Hurman, John Ashton, Thomas Simon Lee, Taylor Swift; Memory by Jennifer Hudson; Skimbleshanks: The Railway Cat by Steven McRae
Choreography - Luca Demattè, Barbara Fusar Poli

Aurelie Faula & Theo Belle (FRA)
SP - I'll Take Care Of You by Beth Hart, Joe Bonamassa
FS - Experience by Ludovico Einaudi; Final Speech Charlie Chaplin's The Dictator
Choreography - Louis Thauron
 
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