2023-24 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[icewhite]

Thats true. I guess their whole identity is being a figure skater and competitor. Medvedeva started taking college courses on journalism or something after retirement, Zagitova became an MC, etc...

Its all a strive for identity, thats why so many people who hit such high peaks end up getting depressed and having problems etc, because they lose their identity eventually. Its easy for them to put it off, to keep the identity but not be forced to participate given they clearly lost the passion. But if they officially make the life decision to move on, then their identity is in big question which is a problem.

It doesnt just happen with pro athletes but regular people as well. When people hit their 20s and have to get a job and drop their sports dreams, they dont know who they are any more. Their whole lives in school they were known as that one guy whos really good at sports, then all of a sudden they dont even play sports; who even are they know?

I think that has more to do with it than the sponsorship explanation or whatever.

Hm, yeah, I can absolutely see this and I think it is a factor. However there are definitely differences in countries and sports. In other sports I watch it is way more normal to retire officially, even in individual Olympic sports. And for instance the Japanese skaters make an official retirement announcement as soon as they actually stop competing although the identity issue shouldn't be smaller for them. I'm pretty sure Nathan Chen has an identity and clear path ahead of him away from figure skating; apparently he's quite busy with his studies and other academic related stuff, still I haven't heard him make an official announcement while I don't think he intends to come back competitively.
So... I'm assuming that sponsorships in combination with culture/customs play a role.
And it's their life and their decision, not mine to make- it would just likely be easier for me if it was different.

 

[alexocfp]

The skaters might not make official announcements, but they give signs that are unmistakeable.

Big Liza saying she lost her motivation was a big sign that the career is winding down.

And if you go back to Medvedeva’s forum, I called it early too. Once the focus becomes TV hosting and promoting goods, it’s over.

Go to Anna’s forum as well, when I said I was getting Medvedeva vibes from her. Anna isn’t coming back to full time competition either.

It makes it easier when the money starts rolling in. Why would Medvedeva or Anna go through the rigors of competitive training when they can sell NFT’s and make 6 figures?

Especially when we are taking about people who have won everything there is to win.

Zagitova can sell 100 shirts in 5 minutes and make a few thousand bucks in profit. Sure beats getting up at 5am to go to the rink.

Big Liza gave us a lot of bonus years, so we definitely didn’t get cheated with her. Let her enjoy her retirement.

These girls sacrificed a childhood to become champions, let them enjoy adulthood as normal people.

And I’ve made no secret of the fact that with Anna it is me being selfish. I loved that she went out on the absolute top and I don’t want her back losing to people that she would’ve beaten in her prime on one skate. Plus she won everything there is to win so there are no loose ends lingering about.

 

[Jeanie19]

The skaters might not make official announcements, but they give signs that are unmistakeable.

Big Liza saying she lost her motivation was a big sign that the career is winding down.

And if you go back to Medvedeva’s forum, I called it early too. Once the focus becomes TV hosting and promoting goods, it’s over.

Go to Anna’s forum as well, when I said I was getting Medvedeva vibes from her. Anna isn’t coming back to full time competition either.

It makes it easier when the money starts rolling in. Why would Medvedeva or Anna go through the rigors of competitive training when they can sell NFT’s and make 6 figures?

Especially when we are taking about people who have won everything there is to win.

Zagitova can sell 100 shirts in 5 minutes and make a few thousand bucks in profit. Sure beats getting up at 5am to go to the rink.

Big Liza gave us a lot of bonus years, so we definitely didn’t get cheated with her. Let her enjoy her retirement.

These girls sacrificed a childhood to become champions, let them enjoy adulthood as normal people.

And I’ve made no secret of the fact that with Anna it is me being selfish. I loved that she went out on the absolute top and I don’t want her back losing to people that she would’ve beaten in her prime on one skate. Plus she won everything there is to win so there are no loose ends lingering about.

I'm not sure Liza is done, she's still in shape but her end goal is the Olympics and unless she feels she will be able to go, why not just do shows.
Evgenia would have competed in 2021 , but back surgery and Covid just hurt her health too much. I follow her on Instagram and she is so busy with shows, master classes, promotions and in general she looks really happy and healthy.
Anna and Alina are making a ton of money, why keep competing.
That said, if Russian was still competing internationally, one or two of the above might still be in the competitive game.

 

[alexocfp]

I'm not sure Liza is done, she's still in shape but her end goal is the Olympics and unless she feels she will be able to go, why not just do shows.
Evgenia would have competed in 2021 , but back surgery and Covid just hurt her health too much. I follow her on Instagram and she is so busy with shows, master classes, promotions and in general she looks really happy and healthy.
Anna and Alina are making a ton of money, why keep competing.
That said, if Russian was still competing internationally, one or two of the above might still be in the competitive game.

Forget about it, Medvedeva will have back issues for the rest of her life, she definitely deserves her retirement more than most.

Plus she has Dynamo Moskva on top of everything else. Let her sit in the suites and cheer them on, even if they don’t win as often as they should. Haha

 

[Mathematician]

Hm, yeah, I can absolutely see this and I think it is a factor. However there are definitely differences in countries and sports. In other sports I watch it is way more normal to retire officially, even in individual Olympic sports. And for instance the Japanese skaters make an official retirement announcement as soon as they actually stop competing although the identity issue shouldn't be smaller for them. I'm pretty sure Nathan Chen has an identity and clear path ahead of him away from figure skating; apparently he's quite busy with his studies and other academic related stuff, still I haven't heard him make an official announcement while I don't think he intends to come back competitively.
So... I'm assuming that sponsorships in combination with culture/customs play a role.
And it's their life and their decision, not mine to make- it would just likely be easier for me if it was different.

But in 99% of sports, you're retiring in your late twenties at the earliest, not your teens. Its extremely different. Most other athletes have families when they retire; most of these figure skaters literally havent even had their first relationship because their time was 100% sport since like 8 y/o. Thats insane. You are literally retiring your career before you had your first relationship. I dont know any other sports that steal your time that hard that early. These skaters barely even go to school.

This sport is very uniquely demanding. I dont know anything else like it. I fully believe all things considered its the most demanding and difficult sport in the world, far surpassing even the highest level of combat sport which I understand a great deal about.

Nevermind that in other sports you have countless opportunities to become a coach, or open your own gym, etc... but this isnt really the case in figure skating. Theres very few open positions for that kind of stuff, and skating is much more intuitive and hard to teach so most skaters probably arent even cut out for it. And starting your own rink takes a disgusting amount of money.

Most of these successfully retired athletes we see like Alina (and effectively Anna) become businessmen, but how many people their age also want to do that? And do they really even want to do that or are they just distracting themselves? Not to mention, truly, I feel like I've noticed that the cut throat business life has taken a negative effect on the personality and spirit of our girls who took that path (like Anna and Alina).

 

[Jeanie19]

But in 99% of sports, you're retiring in your late twenties at the earliest, not your teens. Its extremely different. Most other athletes have families when they retire; most of these figure skaters literally havent even had their first relationship because their time was 100% sport since like 8 y/o. Thats insane. You are literally retiring your career before you had your first relationship. I dont know any other sports that steal your time that hard that early. These skaters barely even go to school.

This sport is very uniquely demanding. I dont know anything else like it. I fully believe all things considered its the most demanding and difficult sport in the world, far surpassing even the highest level of combat sport which I understand a great deal about.

Nevermind that in other sports you have countless opportunities to become a coach, or open your own gym, etc... but this isnt really the case in figure skating. Theres very few open positions for that kind of stuff, and skating is much more intuitive and hard to teach so most skaters probably arent even cut out for it. And starting your own rink takes a disgusting amount of money.

Most of these successfully retired athletes we see like Alina (and effectively Anna) become businessmen, but how many people their age also want to do that? And do they really even want to do that or are they just distracting themselves? Not to mention, truly, I feel like I've noticed that the cut throat business life has taken a negative effect on the personality and spirit of our girls who took that path (like Anna and Alina).

Figure skating is the most demanding underpaid sport. In the US, football players make so much money, and it doesn't matter if they lose. When Evgenia won 2016 Worlds it was $45,000.00, not 10 million dollars. She felt guilty buying a new dress in Boston.
And even the last place finish at Worlds or the Olympics, is a true athlete that put their life on hold for the love of figure skating.
And some skaters like Evgenia started skating at 3 years old.

 

[alexocfp]

But in 99% of sports, you're retiring in your late twenties at the earliest, not your teens. Its extremely different. Most other athletes have families when they retire; most of these figure skaters literally havent even had their first relationship because their time was 100% sport since like 8 y/o. Thats insane. You are literally retiring your career before you had your first relationship. I dont know any other sports that steal your time that hard that early. These skaters barely even go to school.

This sport is very uniquely demanding. I dont know anything else like it. I fully believe all things considered its the most demanding and difficult sport in the world, far surpassing even the highest level of combat sport which I understand a great deal about.

Nevermind that in other sports you have countless opportunities to become a coach, or open your own gym, etc... but this isnt really the case in figure skating. Theres very few open positions for that kind of stuff, and skating is much more intuitive and hard to teach so most skaters probably arent even cut out for it. And starting your own rink takes a disgusting amount of money.

Most of these successfully retired athletes we see like Alina (and effectively Anna) become businessmen, but how many people their age also want to do that? And do they really even want to do that or are they just distracting themselves? Not to mention, truly, I feel like I've noticed that the cut throat business life has taken a negative effect on the personality and spirit of our girls who took that path (like Anna and Alina).

We always joke around with my friends that it’s hard to have a relationship when Eteri is knocking out the boyfriends for distracting her girls.

You make great points. If you want to be a spokesperson, unfortunately it has a sanitizing effect. The sponsors want you to act, or pretend to act, a certain way.

 

[alexocfp]

Figure skating is the most demanding underpaid sport. In the US, football players make so much money, and it doesn't matter if they lose. When Evgenia won 2016 Worlds it was $45,000.00, not 10 million dollars. She felt guilty buying a new dress in Boston.
And even the last place finish at Worlds or the Olympics, is a true athlete that put their life on hold for the love of figure skating.
And some skaters like Evgenia started skating at 3 years old.

There is no argument here. The pay for the amount of work you put in, and the risks you take, is definitely not proportional.

45,000 is the start. What do you end up with after everyone takes a cut of it?

 

[Jeanie19]

There is no argument here. The pay for the amount of work you put in, and the risks you take, is definitely not proportional.

45,000 is the start. What do you end up with after everyone takes a cut of it?

Not much, that's why buying a new dress was a big deal.

 

[alexocfp]

Not much, that's why buying a new dress was a big deal.

That’s why she should make as much money as she can post retirement.

Especially now that she is young since back issues get harder to manage as you get older.

Hopefully, in our lifetime, we get a benefactor or two that is willing to finance the sport for the love of it, and get the prize money to increase.

If I ever win the billions in a lottery, I’ll be that person. It will be my vanity project.

 

[Mathematician]

Figure skating is the most demanding underpaid sport. In the US, football players make so much money, and it doesn't matter if they lose. When Evgenia won 2016 Worlds it was $45,000.00, not 10 million dollars. She felt guilty buying a new dress in Boston.
And even the last place finish at Worlds or the Olympics, is a true athlete that put their life on hold for the love of figure skating.
And some skaters like Evgenia started skating at 3 years old.

Soccer, football, basketball etc... make the most money because theyre essentially propaganda projects. All those massive team sports with cult-like worshippers are prime outlets to farm unbelievable amounts of money and propagate whatever ideologies you want through the marketing/athletes. Thats why they pump billions into it.

Figure skating is a real sport and a real art. At least for the most part, and yes even in Russia; people say skating is political in Russia but its really not. Sure internationally its a way for Russia to win superiority contests, or play the sympathy card against the west such as with Valieva but those are just opportunistic trivialities - a "cultural tool" if you will at most, but not political. The point is the essence of skating doesn't intrinsically constitute the mass propagation of any specific ideologies or consumerism - thats why its not pumped with big money like the other sports we all know.

 

[yume]

Liza T misses the season

Well, it has been a good ride. I understand the lack of motivation.
If she comes back next season, good for her. If she doesn't, she got a beautiful career. For me, skating that long, winning another worlds and nats medal after so many years, in that era, at that age, with those layouts, is a bigger achievement than going to olys.

 

[thatdarncat]

So sad, but not surprising, I really loved her long program last season, one of the best I have seen for a long time

 

[Skating91]

I do actually find it very annoying that many skaters do not officially retire from competition. So you never know whether it's for good or just a temporary break. I know they have monetary reasons and also in some cases they might actually really be open to a return if circumstances are right, but for me as a fan it would be much easier, emotionally, if I knew what the situation was and I could "grieve" and get some "closure". Yeah, they are still doing shows, but that's not nearly the same.
So... do I now grieve, or do I keep my hopes up?

I think it's too hard for women to take time off and comeback in Russia when they need ultra-si to be competitive. Girls lose their quads or triple axels over one summer then struggle to restore them, forget about taking 12 or 18 months off the coming back.

 

[Skating91]

When Liza started making noises about motivation I thought she might have been angling for some more money for appearances. Now she's jumping into the shows as if this was organised a while ago.

It could be she's just had enough, got a taste from making money from shows and holding training sessions in Mexico, maybe the triple axel became a little harder after taking it easy over summer, just doesn't have the motivation to give 100% for a couple GP starts and nationals. I think this is most likely. She's soon to be 27 after all.

Also, I think she might have been waiting on the ISU to make a final decision on readmitting Russia. That was supposed to have been made in early October. I can't remember reading anything about it but I assume they have said no.

On the other hand, her last competitive performance was early March this year, she needs to not compete for 12 months right? Maybe she's thinking I can leave myself the option of changing countries in another 6 months if I don't compete at the upcoming GP otherwise I'll have to wait until late October 2024 at the latest. Better to sit out rather than do a farewell performance.

This would also make sense and explain a lot of her evasiveness over the topic.

 

[icewhite]

I think it's too hard for women to take time off and comeback in Russia when they need ultra-si to be competitive. Girls lose their quads or triple axels over one summer then struggle to restore them, forget about taking 12 or 18 months off the coming back.

It might be a bit misleading since I posted this in this thread, but I was actually talking about skaters in general. Men do it, adult skaters do it, not just young Russian girls. The Japanese clearly handle it differently, but especially Russian and American skaters leave a return open and usually speak about putting their career on hold.

 

[icewhite]

When Liza started making noises about motivation I thought she might have been angling for some more money for appearances. Now she's jumping into the shows as if this was organised a while ago.

It could be she's just had enough, got a taste from making money from shows and holding training sessions in Mexico, maybe the triple axel became a little harder after taking it easy over summer, just doesn't have the motivation to give 100% for a couple GP starts and nationals. I think this is most likely. She's soon to be 27 after all.

Also, I think she might have been waiting on the ISU to make a final decision on readmitting Russia. That was supposed to have been made in early October. I can't remember reading anything about it but I assume they have said no.

On the other hand, her last competitive performance was early March this year, she needs to not compete for 12 months right? Maybe she's thinking I can leave myself the option of changing countries in another 6 months if I don't compete at the upcoming GP otherwise I'll have to wait until late October 2024 at the latest. Better to sit out rather than do a farewell performance.

This would also make sense and explain a lot of her evasiveness over the topic.

I have actually been thinking about such a possibility of a country switch as well for the same reason that she doesn't speak very publically about it, but then that's likely just wishful thinking from my side. She has long been speaking about looking for other interests and paths for her life, with her doing Navka shows and such it also doesn't really look like she's aiming to switch countries to skate internationally.

 

[Skating91]

I have actually been thinking about such a possibility of a country switch as well for the same reason that she doesn't speak very publically about it, but then that's likely just wishful thinking from my side. She has long been speaking about looking for other interests and paths for her life, with her doing Navka shows and such it also doesn't really look like she's aiming to switch countries to skate internationally.

Yeah maybe it's wishful thinking from me as well, but it would make sense. It is strange she wouldn't do just one farewell show at the next GP. No-one would care if she just jumps double axels, every seat would be sold. The series is now so starved of talent that organisers wouldn't see it as disrespectful to not turn up in optimal shape taking a spot from someone else, they would welcome the publicity.

Once she switches countries she can't make money from the Russian shows while skating for another country, so make as much as she can over the next 6 months. I don't think it's her plan, but certainly something that's probably crossed her mind and she's leaving herself the option on the table by not resetting the 12 month timer back to zero by burning a competitive start.

 

[AlexBreeze]

Bulycheva_team - Фигурное катание Москва on Instagram: "Отпустить спортсмена - неповторимого, любимого, того, кого ты помнишь трех- четырехлетним, того, кого ты учил и первым шагам на льду и четверным прыжкам, кто много лет смотрел тебе в глаза, кого

653 likes, 27 comments - bulycheva_team on October 17, 2023: "Отпустить спортсмена - неповторимого, любимого, того, кого ты помнишь трех- четырехлетним, того, кого ты учил и первым шагам на льду и четверным прыжкам, кто много лет смотрел тебе в глаза, кого ты видел чаще своих собственных детей -...

www.instagram.com

Lukashova has left Bulycheva. Is there any rumors on where she could have transferred to?

Tutberidze

 

[Mariiiiskate]

Tutberidze

Has it been officially announced?