2023 GP Espoo Entries

[4everchan]

The wording on that passage in the rules are confusing to me. I interpreted is as the Challenger winner goes at the bottom of the top 10 names....?

I can only recall it happened once. It was in 19/20 When Makar Ignatov won the Nebelthorn Trophy and then later got a replacement spot at NHK Trophy. Ignatov was injured the season before so he was never on the SB list initially.

I think it may have happened more recently as well with Ava Marie Ziegler who won Budapest and came to Skate Canada.

 

[Jontor]

One last thing : is there are rule about preference given to skaters with already ONE spot over those with zero? Or am I imagining things (again) ? Because in that case, Ivan is very very far from consideration.

I would say they probably pick a skater who already has one spot over a spotless one . So I agree with your scenario.

 

[Jontor]

I think it may have happened more recently as well with Ava Marie Ziegler who won Budapest and came to Skate Canada.

You're absolutely right! Ziegler didn't have a SB so winning in Budapest was the only possible way to get that spot i SC.

Edit: No I was wrong. She did have an SB from JGP the season before.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

The wording on that passage in the rules are confusing to me. I interpreted is as the Challenger winner goes at the bottom of the top 10 names....?

I can only recall it happened once. It was in 19/20 When Makar Ignatov won the Nebelthorn Trophy and then later got a replacement spot at NHK Trophy. Ignatov was injured the season before so he was never on the SB list initially.

Up until last season, Challenger winners were added to the top of the replacement list, that rule was changed this season so Challenger winners are now added to the bottom.

 

[FlossieH]

The flexibility is not a problem in my opinion. I am not happy Conrad is getting looked down (or Mark, Maksim and Takeru) but I can understand in many cases how flexibility is important for the host. In this particular case, I am a bit confused but whatever In many cases, travel arrangements, coaching situations, paperwork, pleasing your crowd (1 with a popular skater, 2 by protecting own medal hopes) , etc are all good arguments for a GP host to pick a skater over another. I am confused about this particular situation because it doesn't seem to really tick any of these boxes more than any of the other skaters ahead on the list... but hey... Espoo has its reasons and that's all fine.

Takeru Kataise can only replace Japanese skaters due to the three per country limit. Maxim Naumov and Mark Gorodnitsky are above Conrad in the seasons best listing for last year, although I believe all three should have been in the list of the top 10 available - as should Liam Kapekis, who got the spot. I don't honestly think GP Espoo has done anything 'wrong' here based on the current rules. I do feel that Conrad is being treated unfairly by the Canadian Fed, and they are overlooking him in favour of other skaters who are doing less well, but that is a separate issue to the GP allocations.

 

[4everchan]

Takeru Kataise can only replace Japanese skaters due to the three per country limit. Maxim Naumov and Mark Gorodnitsky are above Conrad in the seasons best listing for last year, although I believe all three should have been in the list of the top 10 available - as should Liam Kapekis, who got the spot. I don't honestly think GP Espoo has done anything 'wrong' here based on the current rules. I do feel that Conrad is being treated unfairly by the Canadian Fed, and they are overlooking him in favour of other skaters who are doing less well, but that is a separate issue to the GP allocations.

aware of this (Takeru) and yup about Conrad... It just seems to happen that I like all these skaters more than Liam and I do like Liam a lot too... so yeah... I was hoping for pretty much anyone else : i am more surprised than upset really and more sad about Conrad than angry at Espoo... and defnitely, I will be cheering for Liam

 

[FlossieH]

Also skaters have personal life (do we fans have ?). When there is no much time, they may have plans in personal lifes if they are not prepared, like studies or family things. We cannot know who are asked, or can we? In women it took longer to tell who replaces Kimmy than tell in men who replaces Andreas, so maybe somebody else was thinking if to come to Espoo or do something else. The skaters can decide also themselves, cannot they?

One thing to flexibility maybe skaters connection to host country, relatives, they have born or lived there etc.

I had a look at this yesterday. For my reading of the rules, skaters are only allowed to turn down GP offers if they clash with an existing competition or if they have less than 7 days notice. When I compared the top 10 available on the replacement list for women with the entries for the Warsaw Cup, it looked like only Lara Naki Gutman, Ava-Marie Ziegler, Mae-Berenice Meite and Lindsay van Zundert were available (taking the 3 per country limit into account) unless they dropped down to someone with limited international experience such as Hannah Harrell or Sonja Hilmer. Mae-Berenice really struggled at Skate Canada and I am glad she wasn't picked for Espoo because I think she needs more time for recovery. Seoyeon Li is near the top of the replacement list but is entered for Warsaw.

 

[FlossieH]

aware of this (Takeru) and yup about Conrad... It just seems to happen that I like all these skaters more than Liam and I do like Liam a lot too... so yeah... I was hoping for pretty much anyone else : i am more surprised than upset really and more sad about Conrad than angry at Espoo... and defnitely, I will be cheering for Liam

I personally think Conrad is Canada's best option for things like the World Championships this year. However, he needs to feel that Skate Canada are behind him in order to have the freedom he needs to perform at his best. Wesley Chiu seems to be Skate Canada's favoured male, but he isn't ready yet and may not ever be ready. It is similar in women at the moment. It seems that Hetty Shi is very much their favourite for the future, but there are others who could do well now who are not getting as many opportunities. Skate Canada's approach seems to be really undermining Conrad's confidence and I think the same is happening with Rose Thereaux (who really should have been your junior champion last year but couldn't be because they needed Hetty Shi to win so that they could send her to Junior Worlds and continue priming her to be Canada's no.1 after Maddie).

 

[Seven Sisters]

I think protecting your own medal hopes is an absolutely terrible reason and popularity isn't that much better.

I don’t think popularity (or, more broadly, a desire to present a particular skater, because the crowd might especially enjoy that particular skater) is a bad reason to choose someone. In the case of Lara Naki Gutmann, for example, choosing her for the open spot means that the astonishing long program of hers will get additional views, which it deserves! I feel confident that the Finnish audience will enjoy seeing it.

 

[NanaPat]

I don't think Andreas had the host spot in the first place. I'm pretty sure it went to Arlet Levandi who is by far the lowest ranked skater in Espoo.

There isn't one host spot, there are three (per discipline). All of the skaters from the host country are considered host spots. Some of them may have been entitled to one or even two spots regardless of being chosen by their own fed, but they are still host spots.

Skate Canada often chooses their top skater in a discipline, then skips over several others to choose lower-ranked skaters for the second and third host spots. For example, this year in dance they chose G/P but not F-B/S or La/La or even La/Le. All those skaters got two assignments on their own. In pairs they chose S-D/D but not P/M.

 

[Jontor]

Up until last season, Challenger winners were added to the top of the replacement list, that rule was changed this season so Challenger winners are now added to the bottom.

I find no change in the rules this year.

"Skaters/Couples, who place first in any of the ISU Challenger Series events for 2023/24 and can prove to have
skated the minimum Technical score as mentioned in paragraph 2.3, will be added to the alternate list, bottom
ranked according to their scores."

It is worded the same way. What's confusing to me is "according to their scores". If they will be added to the bottom, why does it say "according to their scores"?? If the skater is at the bottom, the scores wouldn't matter, right??

I recall there were discussions on this vague rule last year as well. It really is very strangely written.

 

[Jontor]

There isn't one host spot, there are three (per discipline). All of the skaters from the host country are considered host spots. Some of them may have been entitled to one or even two spots regardless of being chosen by their own fed, but they are still host spots.

Skate Canada often chooses their top skater in a discipline, then skips over several others to choose lower-ranked skaters for the second and third host spots. For example, this year in dance they chose G/P but not F-B/S or La/La or even La/Le. All those skaters got two assignments on their own. In pairs they chose S-D/D but not P/M.

Yes I know.

But Finland didn't use their 3 spots for men. So they gave away two spots to other skaters. Jimmy Ma got one. And then we were discussing who got the other one. I don't think it was Andreas Nordebäck. I think it was Arlet Levandi. Therefore the discussion if Andreas' spot would go back to Finland as a host spot or not.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I find no change in the rules this year.

"Skaters/Couples, who place first in any of the ISU Challenger Series events for 2023/24 and can prove to have
skated the minimum Technical score as mentioned in paragraph 2.3, will be added to the alternate list, bottom
ranked according to their scores."

It is worded the same way. What's confusing to me is "according to their scores". If they will be added to the bottom, why does it say "according to their scores"?? If the skater is at the bottom, the scores wouldn't matter, right??

"Bottom ranked" is the important bit here - In case multiple people without SB scores from last season win a Challenger they'd be ordered in accordance with their scores, however, all of them would be below the person with the 75th highest score from last season.

However, you're right, that is not new and does make me wonder about some assignments in the past. Rinka last season, I get, of the top 75, at least like 25 were not GP-eligible for the GP because they were either doing JGP or Russian/Belarussian, and there were 11 withdrawals among the women, but others? On the other hand, it might explain why Kaetlyn Osmond didn't get a second GP in 2012, despite winning a Challenger as well as her only GP assignment

 

[FlossieH]

I don't think Andreas had the host spot in the first place. I'm pretty sure it went to Arlet Levandi who is by far the lowest ranked skater in Espoo.

There isn't one host spot, there are three (per discipline). All of the skaters from the host country are considered host spots. Some of them may have been entitled to one or even two spots regardless of being chosen by their own fed, but they are still host spots.

Skate Canada often chooses their top skater in a discipline, then skips over several others to choose lower-ranked skaters for the second and third host spots. For example, this year in dance they chose G/P but not F-B/S or La/La or even La/Le. All those skaters got two assignments on their own. In pairs they chose S-D/D but not P/M.

Andreas Nordeback is Swedish, not Finnish. That said, I do think that he may have been a host pick for GP Espoo because he was also selected for Skate America and didn't have automatic eligibility for two GP spots. Arlet Levandi would also have been a host pick despite being Estonian. Jimmy Ma might have been a host pick if Andreas wasn't. Finland did not have enough male skaters of their own who met the minimum score set by the ISU and invited skaters from neighbouring countries to fill some of their host spots. I think host spots then revert back to the international pool if the host doesn't use them.

 

[Jontor]

"Bottom ranked" is the important bit here - In case multiple people without SB scores from last season win a Challenger they'd be ordered in accordance with their scores, however, all of them would be below the person with the 75th highest score from last season.

However, you're right, that is not new and does make me wonder about some assignments in the past. Rinka last season, I get, of the top 75, at least like 25 were not GP-eligible for the GP because they were either doing JGP or Russian/Belarussian, and there were 11 withdrawals among the women, but others? On the other hand, it might explain why Kaetlyn Osmond didn't get a second GP in 2012, despite winning a Challenger as well as her only GP assignment

You're right, in case of multiple Challenger winners, we must ranked them.

I forgot about Osmond in 12/13. But she would have been in the replacement list as she had competed in Junior Worlds the season before. She was ranked 41th with 146.25. That was probably too low to a get a spot initially. However, when she won the Nebelhorn Trophy she improved her score to 170.19 which would have been 13th on the SB list! Which means she must have been on top of the Replacement List by then!

I don't know however if they had any replacement rules at that time.

The only thing I know for sure is that Makar Ignatov got his NHK spot via winning a challenger in 19/20.

 

[4everchan]

On the other hand, it might explain why Kaetlyn Osmond didn't get a second GP in 2012, despite winning a Challenger as well as her only GP assignment

i have another hypothesis about that one

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Last-minute withdrawals: Junhwan Cha (KOR) and Vladimir Litvintsev (AZE)

 

[Crowdproud]

It looks like two more spots have opened up in the men's category, as both Cha and Litvinstev withdrew: https://twitter.com/AnythingGOE/status/1723994185273942147

I wonder if there's time to fill them.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Oh no . I suspected EU visa problems for Litvintsev when he withdrew from Volvo Open. He needs to get a training base outside of Russia if he wants any kind of international career. The visa issue won't get better anytime soon.

 

[Crowdproud]

Oh no . I suspected EU visa problems for Litvintsev when he withdrew from Volvo Open. He needs to get a training base outside of Russia if he wants any kind of international career. The visa issue won't get better anytime soon.

but why would there be visa issues? presumably, he's applying for the visa in Azerbaijan, as an Azerbaijani citizen, not Russian.