Opinion: The brevity of skating careers

[lariko]

What I wish is that something could be done to bring back professional skating as a popular entertainment. Back in the day the goal of a female skater was to win a few amateur contests (hopefully a national or world championship or the Olympics) as a teenager to establish her credentials, then sign on with a big time ice show for a long and lucretive carreer. This was the standard model at least from the 1950s to the end of the 1970s.

Janet Lynn was successful as a teenaged amateur and then signed a multi-million dollar contract with Ice Capades which made her the highest-paid female athlete in the word. Dorothy Hamill won the Olympics (she quipped at the time, "It was either get the gold medal and become a millionaire or get silver and go back to my job as a secretay in Chicago"), made a lot of money off merchandizing, and when it was her turn at the big time she actiually bought the Ice Capades. But the show went bankrupt sopn thereafter.

By the end of the1990s the disctinction between "amateur" and "professiona"l (or Olympic elegible) was largely erased, in part because the Olympic movement dropped the concept of "amateurism" and in part because the ISU swooped in to seize control over all skaters and all skating and fit them to its mold.

The slice of the entertainment budget in every field went down. You ask any creative, they will tell you that their niche is already overstaurated, losing audience and is hopeless. At least the skaters don't have to face the prospect of being replaced by AI...atm.

 

[lariko]

I'm not sure what exactly could be done. Maybe the amount of jumping needs to be limited. Maybe there needs to be more funding in specific areas. Maybe the competition format needs to be changed... I do not dare to put much hope into the new age limit, although I hope it helps.

I just think that many really popular athletes in this sport are those that have been around on the senior circuit for 8 years plus.

The age limit increase forces young women into something that works for men in terms of development and maturity, and is discriminating against women who develop wider hips and chest as they age. Just as we had a chance to see women leaving men in the dust even with the scoring system discriminating against them, we lost that brief pause of equality. And if they at least started letting juniors compete in a unisex ruleset...but nope, junior women still face score penalty for their gender, despite being perfectly capable of performing better than men, at the same level of difficulty.

Taking jumping out of figure skating is called ice dance. It prolongues some, not all, careers, and it doesn't enjoy higher popularity either on the account of long careers, nor due to the absence of jumps.

Taking just some jumps out of figure skating is called pair skating and it's even less popular than ID.

 

[lariko]

Looked to me that most people were perfectly happy to watch Levito and Malinin in Skate America, those teenage phenoms...lol. and they were winning medals. Yeah. While twenty plus, beloved by the public, landed 3A, then flushed the rest of her free skate down the drain. What's the problem again? Americans, no problem.

 

[TallyT]

(I just accidentally posted a post twice, then deleted the whole thing. Sorry.)

Looked to me that most people were perfectly happy to watch Levito and Malinin in Skate America, those teenage phenoms...lol.

No, the people there were happy to see them, and how many people was that? Even by US standards, precious few. And how many people travel to see them, either from outside to the US or from the US outwards, or even from one part of their own country?

Re entertainment, it isn't impossible for skating to persevere in that area - there are shows in Russia, there are more shows in Japan, there is the ongoing success of things like Disney on Ice etc - but the Stars on Ice style may have to go, which won't please any skaters who find it a fun junket with pay One of the drawbacks to shortening competition lives and therefore less impressive careers to show for them is, of course, the financial side... less money made while competing, less appeal to make money afterwards. But that of course is not TPTB's problem or concern.

 

[lariko]

Oh, and about protections of juniors, by the age limit? I've seen that protection on the JGP when a teenage skater was allowed to skate with injured back and the referree wouldn't bothrr to blow the whistle while the kid was repeatedly falling re-injuring himself. Some protection. I am sure it's gonna help the length of his career huge time.

 

[el henry]

It does not help to generalize or stereotype fans by country, IMO.

Many Many Americans (including this one) have opined that we wish to heck Ilia would slow down the jumps. One for watchability, but also for longevity.

I can find posts expressing those opinions on GS with no problem. Of course, there are posts expressing the opposite view, that's what makes a discussion board.

I remember when I expressed reservations about junior women doing quads and discussed solely in terms of Alysa Liu, because frankly she was the only women skater doing quads that I was watching. Sometimes I think (although I cannot speak for them) that it was frustrating for others not to be able to stereotype my opinions as "Well, she only thinks that because she hates *those* skaters."

There are as many reasons for opinions as there are opinions.

 

[rain]

A real sport favors those who are good at it. It's called fair. By the time they are in their twenties, human beings simply can't do 4 min at min HR of 170 and take the high Gs and repeat injuries and impact on joints. Their bodies lose the shape needed for jumping, except very, very few, that limits body types and ethnicity of those who can compete. So, insisting on 20+ in competition over the teens who are natural at it, ruins health and lives.

Taking everything you said as true (which I don't think it is), this presupposes that figure skating = jumping. I couldn't disagree more.

 

[TallyT]

Many Many Americans (including this one) have opined that we wish to heck he would slow down the jumps. One for watchability, but also for longevity.

That point I made about financial rewards made me think of your man: Jason may not have quads or heaps of gold, but he's built connections and a fan base that means he can now look at getting booked in Japan where those with shorter careers would have less chance. There's also sponsorship, which tends to go to 'names' and be taken away as soon as said name fades. Again, this is not TPTB's problem, but it is something to think about when looking at attracting serious talent to an expensive and hard on the body sport in the first place.

 

[Jeanie19]

Oh, and about protections of juniors, by the age limit? I've seen that protection on the JGP when a teenage skater was allowed to skate with injured back and the referree wouldn't bothrr to blow the whistle while the kid was repeatedly falling re-injuring himself. Some protection. I am sure it's gonna help the length of his career huge time.

That was heartbreaking. Watching that live was so upsetting.

 

[TallyT]

Taking everything you said as true (which I don't think it is), this presupposes that figure skating = jumping. I couldn't disagree more.

It was pushed as that for the last quad, which - some would argue - is a bad thing for the skaters and for the popularity of the sport (and interestingly, several of the beneficiaries have started with "oh lookee! let's talk up artistry!") After all, the rise of the quad champions is aligned timewise to the recent further decline of the audiences.

 

[el henry]

That point I made about financial rewards made me think of your man: Jason may not have quads or heaps of gold, but he's built connections and a fan base that means he can now look at getting booked in Japan where those with shorter careers would have less chance. There's also sponsorship, which tends to go to 'names' and be taken away as soon as said name fades. Again, this is not TPTB's problem, but it is something to think about when looking at attracting serious talent to an expensive and hard on the body sport in the first place.

Of course, your man is the gold standard (pun intended ) for longevity with excellence in competitive sport and afterwards. And if I may dare say, not knowing as much as you, due as much if not more for his artistry and connection with the audience as for his technical skills.

I agree with the OP that, IME, the sport overall is served well by skaters with long careers. This is not the NFL, where I will root for the Eagles no matter who plays for them. This is skating, where we become attached to a skater and want a skater to do well. I suppose there are some who root for countries, no matter the skater, or coaches, but I personally find that impossible in an individual sport. I loved Toller Cranston beyond all others, and I am not Canadian and have no Canadian roots. That is the beauty of figure skating.

(And of course even in the NFL, encouraging longevity is considered a virtue. Players want to be, and fans want to see, Tom Brady, not some one hit wonder who sets records for a year never to be heard from again).

How to do it? Wow, that is the million dollar question...

 

[Szayel008]

Personally, I'm annoyed by all these I want to see all these long careers with ups and downs. In my opinion, this is so selfish and does not answer the question: do the skaters themselves want this? Or they want to achieve results that are acceptable to them and throw their skates in the trash, so to speak.
Limiting technical points seems to me to be too vicious and harmful a decision. The same goes for the age limit.
Also, the structure of ISU competitions is clearly outdated.
Personally, I would like figure skating to be similar to tennis in this regard. And so that there are no national quotas or they are seriously expanded.
Then it seems to me that this could find a balance between technically strong juniors who are not disadvantaged, skaters going through puberty who will be confident that they will remain in the mix thanks to the rating, and older skaters with their experience.

 

[lariko]

Taking everything you said as true (which I don't think it is), this presupposes that figure skating = jumping. I couldn't disagree more.

Nope, it's also spins, step sequences, transitions, flexibility and huge aerobic loads. Plus jumping passes, save for ice dance. Lifts in pairs and dance. And...? What specifically isn't true?

 

[Jeanie19]

Of course, your man is the gold standard (pun intended ) for longevity with excellence in competitive sport and afterwards. And if I may dare say, not knowing as much as you, due as much if not more for his artistry and connection with the audience as for his technical skills.

I agree with the OP that, IME, the sport overall is served well by skaters with long careers. This is not the NFL, where I will root for the Eagles no matter who plays for them. This is skating, where we become attached to a skater and want a skater to do well. I suppose there are some who root for countries, no matter the skater, or coaches, but I personally find that impossible in an individual sport. I loved Toller Cranston beyond all others, and I am not Canadian and have no Canadian roots. That is the beauty of figure skating.

(And of course even in the NFL, encouraging longevity is considered a virtue. Players want to be, and fans want to see, Tom Brady, not some one hit wonder who sets records for a year never to be heard from again).

How to do it? Wow, that is the million dollar question...

I think it's star power. Is Tom Brady a star because of longevity, or could be have retired 10 years earlier and still be a star?

Yuzuru has that star power. I don't think longevity would add or subtract from that.

So I don't have the answer either.

 

[Bookseller]

I think that some skaters do want a long and possibly varied career. Jason is one of those. But he recognizes that age and wear and tear change the nature of that career. It's also good for there to be room for the younger, newer skaters to work their way up in competition. Jason has a mission, as well as a vocation, to raise the profile and importance of the artistic side of skating by focusing on the more artistic elements and components. Deanna Stellato is proof that age is a number, not necessarily a limitation. Other skaters are ready to be done with competition while they are still young enough to change direction. But for those who just still love it, it's good to have room to make it happen.

 

[lariko]

I mean, whomsaid there isn't? The only segment excluded from competition on senior level is two years between 15 and 17, so the career starts later. There is zero reason someone can't win everything and leave at 17 or 18 or 19 if they get into seniors right before Olympics if Olympics is a goal. Or never enter senior ranks because they will get injured or puberty changes their body too much to continue career without excessive and painful starvation. Or stay on till they are 27 or 40 or whatever. Just as long as they don't get overscored simply because they are 20+ and somehow it magically makes them special. The fairer is the judging, the better for everyone. But judging is egregiously unfair. That's the problem.

 

[TallyT]

Of course, your man is the gold standard (pun intended ) for longevity with excellence in competitive sport and afterwards. And if I may dare say, not knowing as much as you, due as much if not more for his artistry and connection with the audience as for his technical skills.

Love to talk about him as I do, I have to say that Yuzu probably doesn't quite fit this discussion as he is the ultimate outlier and it would be hard to emulate or make suggestions based on his career, competition or pro.

Personally, I'm annoyed by all these I want to see all these long careers with ups and downs. In my opinion, this is so selfish and does not answer the question: do the skaters themselves want this? Or they want to achieve results that are acceptable to them and throw their skates in the trash, so to speak.

If they want to do that, as Alysa did, there is absolutely nothing stopping them, is there?

And no, it isn't selfish at all. The ISU, the feds and the skaters all want fans' support (and money), so fans are perfectly allowed to decide what makes following fs worthwhile or simply take said support (and money) elsewhere. Which fans are doing - after all the ISU posted a loss, and a big one, last year - which is the reason for these discussions in the first place.

 

[Jeanie19]

I still think fair scoring is the answer. The thought that some big star is going to save the day, is a fantasy. Outside of Yuzuru, I can't think of any skater that could save the day. To get more followers of the sport, you need consistent judging. I was watching with my nephew, who watches baseball and football. I explained everything as we watched, and he saw the discrepancy in scoring watching one competition.
And I do think artistry matters. Look at the score Aymoz just received with one quad, because his Bolero program is so captivating. A good program really matters. Jason's programs with Rohene are so good.

 

[SmileHappy34]

Many seniors have to brief of career.
I also would like them to stay longers
It not up to me but the skater.

Some young skaters who win Olympic Gold medal thinks tarnish career. Look at Yzuru he lost does people think less of him or his career, No. Nor Katarina Witt .
It nice watching become more development in their skating style and understand of music and connection to audiences.

 

[lariko]

I still think fair scoring is the answer. The thought that some big star is going to save the day, is a fantasy. Outside of Yuzuru, I can't think of any skater that could save the day. To get more followers of the sport, you need consistent judging. I was watching with my nephew, who watches baseball and football. I explained everything as we watched, and he saw the discrepancy in scoring watching one competition.
And I do think artistry matters. Look at the score Aymoz just received with one quad, because his Bolero program is so captivating. A good program really matters. Jason's programs with Rohene are so good.

Artistry does not depends on age, though. Also, impact is cultural and subjective. Kagiyama doesn't do anything for me, but Mozalev does to no end. But, like, Kagiyama is silver world medalist and Olympic medallist, and Mozalev is rallying to be 6th in Russia. I doubt his knees are much stiffer and he sure puts far more thoughts in his choice of music and interpretation. But jumping wise it at least makes sense, since Kagiyama falls on his butt far less.

But I don't think the argument about longevity is about men. Like, I don't see anyone here wringing their arms that Zhou and Chen left skating far too early.

Actually, out of morbid curiosity, can we get a list of skaters who conjured the sentiment in this thread into being? Whose untimely departure to life beyond GP are we bemoaning here? Specifics, pls. And let's go on case by case basis.