2024 World Championships Men's Free Skate

[georgia]

Curling is an Olympic sport where skill, strategy and finesse are mandatory for a good result. Figure skating requires more than higher faster and stronger.

Are you really comparing curling to skating?
How many do you think watch curling? lol. I don’t know the game, but in a some form the faster, higher, stronger must apply to curling, or will not be an Olympic sport.
You can compare skating to gymnastics, of other individual sport events f you may. Where the faster, higher and stronger is evident.

 

[museksk8r]

Ilia is the poster child for X Games on ice. If judges want to deem him the king of base value and GOE for jumps, then so be it. I would like to see him land his jumps with the same flow and line that the Japanese men have on their jump landings. However, if PCS was judged accurately, he should be getting 6s in components.

 

[icewhite]

Are you really comparing curling to skating?
How many do you think watch curling? lol. I don’t know the game, but in a some form the faster, higher, stronger must apply to curling, or will not be an Olympic sport.
You can compare skating to gymnastics, of other individual sport events f you may. Where the faster, higher and stronger is evident.

But imagine gymnastics would be reduced to just vault and people would call for instance exercises on the pommel horse not sportive because you cannot just count the number of rotations. Executing an extremely difficult step sequence with amazing speed and flow is sport, just like exercises on the pommel horse or still rings, even if you cannot just count natural numbers to determine who's better.

 

[saine]

How many do you think watch curling? lol. I don’t know the game, but in a some form the faster, higher, stronger must apply to curling, or will not be an Olympic sport.

Curling is huge in Canada. Just because you don't know the game doesn't mean that there isn't any skill involved or that it isn't popular. It must meet your standards, even if you don't see it, or else it wouldn't be an Olympic sport. They are subject to WADA testing like other sports, so there must be some concern about 'faster, higher, stronger' in curling by them.

 

[Arigato]

Ilia is the poster child for X Games on ice. If judges want to deem him the king of base value and GOE for jumps, then so be it. I would like to see him land his jumps with the same flow and line that the Japanese men have on their jump landings. However, if PCS was judged accurately, he should be getting 6s in components.

Yes. To think he's being scored anywhere near Yuma is ludicrous. They skate nothing alike.

 

[4everchan]

Are you really comparing curling to skating?
How many do you think watch curling? lol. I don’t know the game, but in a some form the faster, higher, stronger must apply to curling, or will not be an Olympic sport.
You can compare skating to gymnastics, of other individual sport events f you may. Where the faster, higher and stronger is evident.

I have given you this example because assuming that all olympic sports have to do with speed and strength is false.

There are Olympic sports that do not have to do with it. Archery. Gun shooting. Curling as mentioned. I am fine with the acrobatics of figure skating. I think figure skaters are some of the best athletes out there because they need to have both the skills to do the elements but also the cardiovascular ability to power through a long program or a free dance. Yet, the sport does have its roots in connecting edges to the ice in precise manner. There is nothing wrong recognizing that some skaters excel at that and others do not, just like there is nothing wrong to praise someone who is a fabulous spinner or jumper and recognizing that there is work to do in those departments for others. Really, I am confused with the need to pretend that all that matters is the TES. If it did, the ISU would remove PCS altogether.

 

[georgia]

My mentioning of Patrick is not about his achievements in the sport in a former generation of great skaters. It is about how many quads one needs to put in a program if there is an interest in choreo.


Patrick at 17 was already a better PCs skater than ilia.

Nathan developed some aspects later but he always had lines and refined posture. His skating was also smoother.

How old is Yuma? Because you know, he won silver at Olympics 2 years ago and is already a complete skater. How old was Shoma when he burst onto the senior scene and started winning events. Just saying that it has to part of his focus and not just something to work on as a secondary thing

But Ilia, Nathan and Hanyu at 17 had better jumps, right? No argument there.
Chan decided to focus on transitions. Thank God because I loved them!
If Yuma, the wonderful Yuma, skates against Ilia, and they both skate up to the best of their ability Ilia will win. If the previous night Yuma did not have the fall, still it was Ilia’s championship.
I can’t believe how much Ilia has improved. It’s amazing….
I think Japanese skaters have wonderful basics, and that’s because their body structure helps them. It took Hanyu some time to developed ( I remember the endless arguments), because he is taller and slender. It’s all in the knee. Yuma and Shoma, when they skate their knees almost touch the ice.

 

[georgia]

The truth is, many fans can’t digest Ilia’s, uniqueness and superiority. I watched again the video closely, and I see great edges. I don’t know if he has worked with a specialist, but I see a major improvement. The kid is tall he can’t help it. Give him a year to find his body. You all generously gave a loooot of time to other skates to improve.

 

[4everchan]

But Ilia, Nathan and Hanyu at 17 had better jumps, right? No argument there.

Sure but does it matter ?

Chan decided to focus on transitions. Thank God because I loved them!
If Yuma, the wonderful Yuma, skates against Ilia, and they both skate up to the best of their ability Ilia will win. If the previous night Yuma did not have the fall, still it was Ilia’s championship.

Yes. Because the base value is unmatched. Yuma only attempts 3 quads, yet they were gorgeous with lots of amplitude and flow. Nobody can beat someone who has 6 quads with a 3 quad program. It's mathematically impossible based on the PCS differences we see in skating nowadays.

I can’t believe how much Ilia has improved. It’s amazing….
I think Japanese skaters have wonderful basics, and that’s because their body structure helps them. It took Hanyu some time to developed ( I remember the endless arguments), because he is taller and slender. It’s all in the knee. Yuma and Shoma, when they skate their knees almost touch the ice.

Patrick is way taller than Yuma and Shoma. it's not that simple. There are other much taller skaters who were praised for their edges (Jeremy Abbott). To me, it comes from the focus in training from a young age. So maybe, it's not Ilia's fault but his coaching team. They had a kid there, super gifted for jumping and who loved to jump and they focused on that.

Honestly, I don't care if Ilia improves or not. I don't care if he wins without improving his skating skills much. My comment is not so much about Ilia but in general, about where the sport could be heading. I care about that. If there is a super crazy kid who wants to quad his way to the top, let it be... but I certainly hope that it will not be the only way to reach the top.

 

[Arigato]

If Yuma, the wonderful Yuma, skates against Ilia, and they both skate up to the best of their ability Ilia will win.

https://skatingscores.com/2324/wc/sr/men/i/short/jpn/yuma_kagiyama/ 106.35
https://skatingscores.com/2324/wc/sr/men/i/short/usa/ilia_malinin/ 105.97

 

[SXTN]

I think Japanese skaters have wonderful basics, and that’s because their body structure helps them. It took Hanyu some time to developed ( I remember the endless arguments), because he is taller and slender. It’s all in the knee. Yuma and Shoma, when they skate their knees almost touch the ice.

This is true.

 

[MarkinBerkeley]

Small things I'm happy about: 1. Yuma's fall didn't keep him from winning. 2. Adam's back flip didn't keep him from getting bronze. 3. Jason's single axel didn't keep him from getting 5th.

 

[MarkinBerkeley]

Jason wouldn't have gotten 4th or bronze even without those 2 FP mistakes. 5th was a great placement for him.

 

[SXTN]

Patrick is way taller than Yuma and Shoma. it's not that simple. There are other much taller skaters who were praised for their edges (Jeremy Abbott). To me, it comes from the focus in training from a young age.

Genetics do play a role. There are always statistical outliers.

Another example: Male skaters with bigger butts and long legs are weaker quad jumpers, this is why this body type is found in pair skating more often. Ilia has long legs and no butt at all. This is why he can rotate so fast and efficiently, but doesn't have the best glide. The same principle applies to Nikolaj Memola. He can jump because of his thin long legs and the missing butt, but his SS are weaker. Patrick Chan is taller than Shoma or Yuma, but he has relatively short (strong) legs in contrast to his upper body. This is what counts.

 

[TontoK]

This argument is never going to die, is it?

You're young. I'm old, so I'm going to let you in on a secret because I've seen it play out time and time again.

Whenever there is a changing of the guard - someone shaking up the established order of things - there is resistance from those who have become emotionally invested in the previous frontrunner. Over time, the new guy gathers in fans, and there's resistance to whoever is coming after.

It happened with Patrick. It happened with Yuzu. It happened with Nathan. It happened with Shoma to a lesser extent because his main rivals had retired and he'd been heir-apparent for some time.

And if Ilia continues on the track he's on, it will happen to his successor, too. Because one day in the not-too-distant future, a guy is going to show up.

It's not just a men's thing either. Hell, Kristi Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan faced it. They were inelegant "jumping beans" who were destroying the sport with those showy and distracting triple jumps.

 

[reneerose]

After watching Illia go 24 points extra to get the lead and win Gold I now want them to award separate medals for technical and component scores at the Olympics, because Yuma would have the component Gold in my book!

 

[4everchan]

You're young. I'm old, so I'm going to let you in on a secret because I've seen it play out time and time again.

Whenever there is a changing of the guard - someone shaking up the established order of things - there is resistance from those who have become emotionally invested in the previous frontrunner. Over time, the new guy gathers in fans, and there's resistance to whoever is coming after.

It happened with Patrick. It happened with Yuzu. It happened with Nathan. It happened with Shoma to a lesser extent because his main rivals had retired and he'd been heir-apparent for some time.

And if Ilia continues on the track he's on, it will happen to his successor, too. Because one day in the not-too-distant future, a guy is going to show up.

It's not just a men's thing either. Hell, Kristi Yamaguchi and Michelle Kwan faced it. They were inelegant "jumping beans" who were destroying the sport with those showy and distracting triple jumps.

The opposite is also true. Fans of newcomers diss the more established skaters, sometimes to the point of wishing they will retire etc.. or calling them boring or old or no longer competitive enough etc.

I think however that some fans need to be able to hear the opinion of others if they gather on a skating forum. We all have a variety of opinions on different skaters, and sometimes, our perception also evolves. It is also not white and black. I praised a lot of skaters from worlds and also noted what I didn't like from their performances. Nuance is important for me. Even with my ultimate favourites, I will find points they need to work on. I am not the kind of fan who turns a blind eye when I develop interest for a skater. Some fans could acknowledge that .constructive criticism doesn't equate to ill intent and just let it go.

 

[Arigato]

Anyone using Peacock? It looks like they're back to the worst timeline and can only replay Worlds for 2 days.

 

[yelyoh]

Well this thread proves there's something for everyone.

 

[Janice4th]

I have to admit that the only two programs that held my attention all the way through were Jason Brown's and Yuma Kagiyama's (I didn't see Adam Sao Him Fa's). To me, Ilia Malinin put on the greatest fireworks display in the history of the sport, no wonder he won by 20 points. But did he do any skating?

Oh well, upward and onward.

Yes, he did. You might want to go back and rewatch.