2024 World Championships Men's Free Skate

[icewhite]

I've resigned myself to knowing that's how it is and always will be. Plushenko also got outrageous second marks and I had to accept it. I just focused on their entertainment/performance aspects, and when I did that I wasn't as bothered by some of the glaring deficiencies. It's so rare for a Yuzu or Yuma or Chan who has/had it all. I enjoy their performances in a different way. I see near perfection in their skating. But ice skating is a sport after all, and sometimes you just have to accept that athleticism many/most times will trump artistic preferences. It always makes for a good debate though, that's for sure.

(First of all the charisma of Plushenko was/is... incredible. I don't know how many skaters with such charisma on the ice there have ever been, but I suppose not more than 10. That's what made him stand out and what made him more than just his jumps.)

Secondly, I know I am repeating myself endlessly, but jumps are not really athleticism, not more than a great step sequence or a spin. They are a mixture of athleticism, coordination, taught technique, muscle memory and the best suited body build...
And step sequences and spins are not not sportive or less sportive than jumps. Do you think Margarita Bazilyuk is able to jump much more difficult content because she's much more athletic than let's say Roman Sadovsky or Kaori Sakamoto?
PCS are not really about "artistic preferences". They are about the ability to move your body in such a variable, secure way that you are able to do anything you want on the ice. And this requires extreme strength of deep muscles, incredible balance and coordination. Sportive requirements. For basketball or football (I think nobody would say they are not fully sports) you also need things like technique and coordination in abundance. Messi is not Messi because he's the most athletic of them all.
Step sequences and spins are even less about "artistic preferences".
If a feeling for art brought you anywhere in skating I think I would be competitive at least on a regional level. I am not.

Yes, musicality, charisma, extraversion etc. can get you some points, too, and most of all they can gain you fans. But jumps vs everything else = athleticism vs. artistry - no. That's just a wrong use of terms or a complete misconception of what is happening and what is needed.

 

[4everchan]

All skaters are obviously musical, but those with outstanding musiclity donn't finish their program way before the score. And he is just not artistic, he is bland. But he sure can glide and have really soft knees. So, that's great.

I actually find him quite artistically inclined. But you know, we all look for different things. I remember you thought shaidorov was and to me, he was perhaps the weakest skater artistically in the entire LP.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Well, the last time his ISU bio was updated. Ilia was 5 feet 8 1/2 inches. I suppose he could be 5'10" by now, but it's hard to say because I always see skaters with skates on. Usually, men only grow a little bit after 18, let alone 19, so I doubt he's grown more than 2 inches.

Yeah, his ISU bio was updated in December, and I just can't see how much he could have grown in like 3 to 3 1/2 months, he doesn't seem that much taller next to Yuma or Adam compared to earlier in the season.

But once again, maybe it's a definition thing - I don't know if I'd quite consider 5'10'' "close" to 6' yet either.

 

[lariko]

I actually find him quite artistically inclined. But you know, we all look for different things. I remember you thought shaidorov was and to me, he was perhaps the weakest skater artistically in the entire LP.

I really like his elegance and the way he uses his body to say something about the music. I also recognized some of Urmanov's drama there. I can see why he skates both musical scores. He certainly doesn't have the speed/ power, and he belonged in the 3rd group, not in the first two this year. I want to see what happens next season if health permits him to gain some extra mastery. Also...that 4T-3T was beautiful.

Kagiyama is just blank slate. I don't see anything about the music when he skates, and why he picked it is not obvious, it could have been anything else, but technically it is very, very, very obvious that he is great. That 3A and 4S he landed in front of us were jaw dropping. He is also so light on the ice, and changes directions really beautifully, almost like Shoma, but doesn't have the eye-catching body fluidity like Shoma.

 

[SXTN]

that's fair and I agree with that but to me, it's a problem in the scoring system. It rewards way too much the big tricks compared to the overall skating

This, i cannot agree with. Yuma is extremely musical. His gala number showed that. Some skaters show their musicality with arms and giving face. Yuma, and Shoma for instance, embody the musical phrase with from head to toe. Full body movements in communion with the music. It was extremely apparent in Yuma's gala program. I was mesmerized at how well he was able to skate emotionally to this big operatic piece. It's a style of emotional portraying in skating which I appreciate way more than gimmicks.

Yuma doesn't have the charisma or personality. It's not memorable.

 

[lariko]

I think Kagiyama just didn't find himself--or he is too focused on delivering what federation wants from him. Malinin is definitely ahead of him in this respect because he is filling his programs with his flamboyant teen spirit this year and you can't miss it. Maybe once Kagiyama is a bit more established, he can do more. But for now, from the next generation Japanese, it's Miura who delivers the personality and passion in spades.

 

[mirai4life]

Y'all wanted Ilia's performance to go viral. Looks like it's heading that direction now. Almost 600K views and its getting shown on different news channel

 

[mirai4life]

After watching Illia go 24 points extra to get the lead and win Gold I now want them to award separate medals for technical and component scores at the Olympics, because Yuma would have the component Gold in my book!

The component scale needs major updates. Idk how Yuma is only a few points higher in component it makes zero difference in the total score.

 

[Arigato]

No, they don’t, but they don’t have to to have similar points.

There is criteria. When several men have superb skating skills, you can see the similarities. Easily. That's why you might hear three (or five} commentators such as Mark Hanretty, Chris Howarth, and Ted Barton at three different events bring up the exact same skating skills of the same skater, because it's so pronounced every time they skate. I'm thinking of two skaters right now where no matter who watches them, they all bring up the power and speed across the ice. It's that pronounced. And, no, the skater was not Ilia. Power and speed are part of the criteria for judging skating skills. This is not subjective on my part, it's laid out here:

ISU Program Components

https://www.isu.org/synchronized-skating/rules/sys-handbooks-faq/31479-program-components-chart-2/file

 

[4everchan]

I really like his elegance and the way he uses his body to say something about the music. I also recognized some of Urmanov's drama there. I can see why he skates both musical scores. He certainly doesn't have the speed/ power, and he belonged in the 3rd group, not in the first two this year. I want to see what happens next season if health permits him to gain some extra mastery. Also...that 4T-3T was beautiful.

Kagiyama is just blank slate. I don't see anything about the music when he skates, and why he picked it is not obvious, it could have been anything else, but technically it is very, very, very obvious that he is great. That 3A and 4S he landed in front of us were jaw dropping. He is also so light on the ice, and changes directions really beautifully, almost like Shoma, but doesn't have the eye-catching body fluidity like Shoma.

I'd rewatch Yuma 100 Times before I'd rewatch Misha. We have different tastes obviously

 

[ramurphy2005]

Y'all wanted Ilia's performance to go viral. Looks like it's heading that direction now. Almost 600K views and its getting shown on different news channel

It's making the rounds on Twitter, too, outside of the skating bubble.

 

[Janice4th]

There is criteria. When several men have superb skating skills, you can see the similarities. Easily. That's why you might hear three (or five} commentators such as Mark Hanretty, Chris Howarth, and Ted Barton at three different events bring up the exact same skating skills of the same skater, because it's so pronounced every time they skate. I'm thinking of two skaters right now where no matter who watches them, they all bring up the power and speed across the ice. It's that pronounced. And, no, the skater was not Ilia. Power and speed are part of the criteria for judging skating skills. This is not subjective on my part, it's laid out here:

ISU Program Components

https://www.isu.org/synchronized-skating/rules/sys-handbooks-faq/31479-program-components-chart-2/file

You misunderstand. Joe’s jump technique is wonky. He lands them, but barely. But his spin technique is superb. John is the opposite, great jump technique, but his spins are not great. So, their scores there can wash. The one has deep edges, but the movement overall is jerky. The other has shallow edges, but they glide smoothly across the ice. So they may get similar scores, but for different reasons.

 

[Arigato]

You misunderstand. Joe’s jump technique is wonky. He lands them, but barely. But his spin technique is superb. John is the opposite, great jump technique, but his spins are not great. So, their scores there can wash. The one has deep edges, but the movement overall is jerky. The other has shallow edges, but they glide smoothly across the ice. So they may get similar scores, but for different reasons.

Uh, no.

 

[Janice4th]

Uh, no.

Well, then you are going to always be unhappy with the PCS scores.

 

[Mathman]

Yuma doesn't have the charisma or personality. It's not memorable.

I don't agree. Yuma's was the only program, along with Jason's, that held my interest for the whole 4 minutes and that I watched more than once in replays. Subdued charisma and reserved personality are not negatives, to me.

 

[Arigato]

Yuma's was the only program, along with Jason's, that held my interest for the whole 4 minutes and that I watched more than once in replays. Subdued charisma and reserved personality are not negatives, to me.

Yuma's skills are superb and deserves all the GOE he gets. Also, I missed his gala performance but watched it tonight. He kept my attention the whole time.

 

[Arigato]

Well, then you are going to always be unhappy with the PCS scores.

I don't have a problem with PCS. I have a problem with men who jump well, but can't skate well.

 

[4everchan]

Yuma's skills are superb and deserves all the GOE he gets. Also, I missed his gala performance but watched it tonight. He kept my attention the whole time.

his gala was stellar. I felt all the feels... and I am not a fan of opera in skating...

 

[Crowdproud]

Well, the last time his ISU bio was updated, Ilia was 5 feet 8 1/2 inches. I suppose he could be 5'10" by now, but it's hard to say because I always see skaters with skates on. Usually, men only grow a little bit after 18, let alone 19, so I doubt he's grown more than 2 inches.

He is close to 6ft now so with this final boost he will be going over 6ft.

Malinin is nowhere close to 6 ft now. Here's a picture of him with the ARM skater, Daniliants, who is listed as 180 cm in his ISU bio: https://www.instagram.com/p/C46qEIkOG_B/

Malinin looks to be about 2 inches shorter.

 

[4everchan]

Malinin is nowhere close to 6 ft now. Here's a picture of him with the ARM skater, Daniliants, who is listed as 180 cm in his ISU bio: https://www.instagram.com/p/C46qEIkOG_B/

Malinin looks to be about 2 inches shorter.

My guess would be that he is about 5'7 or 5'8 from seeing him at the rink...

But in any case, posting to say how dapper Danilants is... wow ! Fabulous outfit