KSU Suspends Hae-in Lee and Young You

[Joekaz]

What evidence do you have that Korea went overboard? As you alluded to other Federations (and I don't hear them really getting any heat) generally circle the wagon to protect top athletes and the fact that Korea didn't do that makes me think they have evidence of something that makes them incapable of ignoring/sweeping under the rug.

I would say a 3 year ban, which ends her career, is way overboard for anything she is likely to have done from the information we have. There is a middle ground between ending a career and sweeping it under the rug.

 

[Arigato]

The KSU is also part of an international sport that has to be aware of international opinions and getting into trouble with the ISU. You are right that we don't know at all what she did. We also don't know why he voluntarily went to their dorm. We also don't know what previous relationship there may be. But we do know skater A is also a teenager, so the age thing is overblown here. Everyone just needs to hold their horses and quit spewing venom for awhile.

If that were the case, possibly Sunbae-Hoobae. It's a Korean culture of respect dictated by age, creating a hierarchy. If a Sunbae (Senior) tells a Hoobae (Junior) to go somewhere, they go. Did one of the older females call him and tell him to come? If so, he'd go. This isn't American culture. Far from it. And I do mean far. Don't think I'm exaggerating when I say a guy calling another guy "Hyung" could only be born two weeks earlier than the other. "Hyung" means older brother but guys call they're older friends that name as well. I've never seen age matter so much as in Korea. But as I said, the entire culture of respect is structured using age.

 

[Magill]

If that were the case, possibly Sunbae-Hoobae. It's a Korean culture of respect dictated by age, creating a hierarchy. If a Sunbae (Senior) tells a Hoobae (Junior) to go somewhere, they go. Did one of the older females call him and tell him to come? If so, he'd go. This isn't American culture. Far from it. And I do mean far. Don't think I'm exaggerating when I say a guy calling another guy "Hyung" could only be born two weeks earlier than the other. "Hyung" means older brother but guys call they're older friends that name as well. I've never seen age matter so much as in Korea. But as I said, the entire culture of respect is structured using age.

This is very true.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

People should not bring in their own personal hangups about sex and alcohol when judging others. Under Korean law, even if he was 19 himself and consented, it would still be illegal to have sex because 20 is their age of consent now. Using common sense is just as important as trying to follow laws to the letter in many cases. In the last 5 years the age of consent in Korea went from 13 to 16 to 20. Because other countries federations got heat for sweeping abuses under the rug is no reason for Korea to go overboard here.

Ah yes, the personal hang-ups of - checks notes - adults not having sex with minors and alcohol not being an excuse for anyone's behavior....

And no, the age of consent is not 20, and I don't understand where this keeps on coming from. It's still 16, with close age exceptions. Article 305 of the Korean Criminal Acts.

 

[spatzchen]

I would say a 3 year ban, which ends her career, is way overboard for anything she is likely to have done from the information we have. There is a middle ground between ending a career and sweeping it under the rug.

You’re saying this like you have all the information as well… you don’t know in full what she did to warrant a 3 year suspension. I would say that considering KSU has enough proof to even issue that level of a ban, and has since sent it to a higher court for safe sport, that it was justified. End of story.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

I would say a 3 year ban, which ends her career, is way overboard for anything she is likely to have done from the information we have. There is a middle ground between ending a career and sweeping it under the rug.

She knowingly broke multiple rules, she's not just being punished for the situation we are talking about here. My sympathy is rather limited in that case, and even a shorter ban of for example 2 years is basically a death sentence in Korean Women's skating. After all, how many 20+ year-old Korean women have been able to successfully compete past 20 (unfortunately)?

 

[Joekaz]

Ah yes, the personal hang-ups of - checks notes - adults not having sex with minors and alcohol not being an excuse for anyone's behavior....

And no, the age of consent is not 20, and I don't understand where this keeps on coming from. It's still 16, with close age exceptions. Article 305 of the Korean Criminal Acts.

There is evidently conflicting info on this online, but I lean to your view of 16 now. However there is exemption for under 19 with under 16. She was under 19 until 2 months ago, so if there was prior relationship, which there are rumors of, its not realistic to expect things to stop. Im just saying that people are blowing things out of proportion, lots of times do to their own personal issues.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

There is evidently conflicting info on this online, but I lean to your view of 16 now. However there is exemption for under 19 with under 16. She was under 19 until 2 months ago, so if there was prior relationship, which there are rumors of, its not realistic to expect things to stop. Im just saying that people are blowing things out of proportion, lots of times do to their own personal issues.

Skater C reported Skaters A and B - Regardless of anyone's age or prior relationship, lack of consent is lack of consent.
And that has nothing to do with "personal issues" but with being a decent human being.

 

[Joekaz]

Skater C reported Skaters A and B - Regardless of anyone's age or prior relationship, lack of consent is lack of consent.
And that has nothing to do with "personal issues" but with being a decent human being.

If skater C reported them, then what happened to the all powerful respect for seniors, which is supposedly the reason he violated rules to go to their dorm?

 

[Jumping_Bean]

How about we all wait to find out what really happened instead of trying to crucify people because of our own sexual hangups? Putting this in with grown men abusing children and young girls is ridiculous. A little common sense is needed here.

I guess you also have no issue with what happened to Gracie and Ashley then - After all Gracie and her rapist are less than a year apart in age and were both grown adults, and Ashley was 17.

If skater C reported them, then what happened to the all powerful respect for seniors, which is supposedly the reason he violated rules to go to their dorm?

This is literally the most brain-dead take I've ever heard. Apart from the fact that he didn't report them for drinking, but come forward about the sexual assault during the ongoing investigation, I am certain everyone would lose respect for someone if they were assaulted by them, no matter the societal expectation.

 

[Joekaz]

I guess you also have no issue with what happened to Gracie and Ashley then - After all Gracie and her rapist are less than a year apart in age and were both grown adults, and Ashley was 17.


This is literally the most brain-dead take I've ever heard. Apart from the fact that he didn't report them for drinking, but come forward about the sexual assault during the ongoing investigation, I am certain everyone would lose respect for someone if they were assaulted by them, no matter the societal expectation.

Possible, but there are many possibilities right now. We don't know what happened, but since you evidently do, how exactly did she "assault" him?

 

[elektra blue]

@Joekaz it's illegal to have sex with people who don't want to have sex with you, whether they came into your room willingly or not, it's illegal even if they're adult and it doesn't matter if the perpretators are male or female. now i know you are aware of all of this and you probably only want to argue (i don't believe even for a moment that you don't believe that the girls are responsible for this), but i suggest you to deal with this fact: someone was object of unwanted sexual attentions by someone who you liked. that this someone is also a minor makes it worst. so i suggest you to deal with it instead of looking for loopholes.

(i never take part in pointless arguments, you know, but for Christ sake!)

 

[visaliakid]

@Joekaz it's illegal to have sex with people who don't want to have sex with you, whether they came into your room willingly or not, it's illegal even if they're adult and it doesn't matter if the perpretators are male or female. now i know you are aware of all of this and you probably only want to argue (i don't believe even for a moment that you don't believe that the girls are responsible for this), but i suggest you to deal with this fact: someone was object of unwanted sexual attentions by someone who you liked. that this someone is also a minor makes it worst. so i suggest you to deal with it instead of looking for loopholes.

(i never take part in pointless arguments, you know, but for Christ sake!)

Excellant points in the above. Too much garbage in this thread of posts seeking to ignore reported facts. I can be a fan of skating and particular skaters (Male - Female) but I don't make conclusions until all the FACTS have been determined Everybody commenting in this thread should not use speculation or make assumptions until the whole picture is illustrated clearly.

 

[Joekaz]

@Joekaz it's illegal to have sex with people who don't want to have sex with you, whether they came into your room willingly or not, it's illegal even if they're adult and it doesn't matter if the perpretators are male or female. now i know you are aware of all of this and you probably only want to argue (i don't believe even for a moment that you don't believe that the girls are responsible for this), but i suggest you to deal with this fact: someone was object of unwanted sexual attentions by someone who you liked. that this someone is also a minor makes it worst. so i suggest you to deal with it instead of looking for loopholes.

(i never take part in pointless arguments, you know, but for Christ sake!)

Where did it say anywhere she had sex with him? Im simply saying that with no real concrete explanation of what happened, I think people are jumping to conclusions and 3 years seems an excessive punishment off of what is known so far.

 

[Joekaz]

If 2 nanograms of medication ruins a career but touching little boys doesn't maybe we should throw away the entire sport.

I am not being inflammatory or trolling. That is objectively what happened in this situation according to the article. Anyone who is offended by calling it exactly what it is, is just hiding. Lets not hide with technical terms, a casual vernacular demystifies the situation effectively.

I actually dont understand why people are putting so much work into defending this sort of behaviour.

Is saying we should wait until this has a chance to play out and appeals are heard before we condemn anyone, defending this behavior? Its possible you are right, but that might not be what happened, or they could have had a previous relationship. Why not just wait and see?

 

[Mathman]

Excellant points in the above. Too much garbage in this thread of posts seeking to ignore reported facts. I can be a fan of skating and particular skaters (Male - Female) but I don't make conclusions until all the FACTS have been determined Everybody commenting in this thread should not use speculation or make assumptions until the whole picture is illustrated clearly.

Hey, Visaliakid, good to see you posting. Lomg time, no see!

 

[Mathematician]

Is saying we should wait until this has a chance to play out and appeals are heard before we condemn anyone, defending this behavior? Its possible you are right, but that might not be what happened, or they could have had a previous relationship. Why not just wait and see?

You can check my comments in any other thread with these sorts of issues, where I also hold a similar position to what you are saying, in that I do not disbelieve the accusers neither condemn the accused prematurely and remain neutral until proper evidence is presented.

However, in this case there is PHOTO EVIDENCE of adults having some sort of sexual contact with a young boy. The extent of this situation is irrelevant; was it forced rape, or was it temptation and manipulation by peer pressure, from adults unto a kid? Did they engage in intercourse or more "mundane" sexual actions? I dont care. Whatever the case it is clear that adults have played with the innocence of a boy for their own interests. Their sports dream will have to deal with that fact.

I now withdraw from this discussion. If you dont have eyes to see or ears to hear then it isnt my problem.

 

[CoyoteChris]

Poor Ichat...

 

[rabidline]

Overall, I think it's good that KSU has an official procedure in place for cases like these that happened under their supervision, and is following it in a swift way. That also includes the existence of a retrial process. I always thought that for better and worse, KSU always treated their skaters like athletes as opposed to idols, and figure skating as a sport as opposed to pageantry, and it showed in how they dealt with this.

In my opinion this case escalated because it happened during a federation-funded training camp specifically planned and purposed to prepare for 2026 Olympics, with a select group of the best of the South Korean skaters invited (the ones who didn't join already had their own training camps planned). It is a completely different context than skaters privately funding themselves to go to training camps / seminars with certain coaching teams, or even skaters going abroad and hanging around in their own time while getting choreography. As the organizing federation, in my opinion, KSU had to take action when they found out something like this happened under their nose. And they did, after carrying out an investigation process. The adult supervising this whole thing also got a sanction from them. Whether the punishments they gave are too harsh or too soft, it's up to the retrial process to decide.

 

[4everchan]

I understand what you are saying. I think it is subconsciously hard for many men to think of a drunk attractive 19 year old girl coming on to them when they were 15 as a horrible thing. Most 15 year old boys would have that as a dream come true. I would count myself as one of those when I was 15 as well. Perhaps that colors my judgement toward leniency or at least further investigation of all related facts. Or maybe Im not such a black and white person as you.

you know... i could give you a handful of reasons why a teenage boy doesn't want to do it with a woman any age.
not everyone is a horny teenage boy.

some boys have religious beliefs
some boys are not straight or unsure
some boys want sex to be a special thing, not something that happens out of drinking or whatever
some boys want to do it within a relationship or choose the right time
some boys just don't feel ready
some boys are deeply interested in someone else and are not into the woman offering...

Seriously, the simple fact that this boy didn't feel it was right should be enough.

What I see here is that some men have this exact fantasy, being dominated by a woman... well, in real life, it doesn't always happen like this.

SIGH