2025 Junior Worlds: Info and pre-game chat

[4everchan]

Personally, I care about M/B repeat performance far less than I do about ice dance overpopulated by new adults.

i actually care less about the ice dance because in that discipline, learning patterns, steps, proper edges takes time and is not exclusively limited to those who are "older and stronger" than the younger... Some younger teams are actually better than older ones because they have been training together for longer... if you witnessed a team like Virtue and Moir when they were kids... WOW... or even just recently, LaLa... While in pairs, if you are not strong enough to twist your partner up three times or have the power in your legs to land triple throws or execute a very strong lasso lift, then you cannot help it.. it's about getting older to gain those skills via simply, muscles. So there, the real adults against the 13 years old is a big deal.

I agree with you that the rules are the rules and perhaps we are too harsh on some people... but then, you know, as fans, we all have our biases and mine is fueled by other things too... So this adds fuel on the fire.

for instance, when they said it's for world standing points, it's a lie..... they cannot gain world standing points because what they earned already in Euros is > than winning JWC... so that's not cool

 

[lariko]

i actually care less about the ice dance because in that discipline, learning patterns, steps, proper edges takes time and is not exclusively limited to those who are "older and stronger" than the younger... Some younger teams are actually better than older ones because they have been training together for longer... if you witnessed a team like Virtue and Moir when they were kids... WOW... or even just recently, LaLa... While in pairs, if you are not strong enough to twist your partner up three times or have the power in your legs to land triple throws or execute a very strong lasso lift, then you cannot help it.. it's about getting older to gain those skills via simply, muscles. So there, the real adults against the 13 years old is a big deal.

I agree with you that the rules are the rules and perhaps we are too harsh on some people... but then, you know, as fans, we all have our biases and mine is fueled by other things too... So this adds fuel on the fire.

Well, maybe you should restrain yourself from shaming skaters who play by the rules, and saying that ISU needs to fudge rules again with a very narrow focus that target a very specific athlete. The more they fine-tune with only one person/fed in mind based on today's sentiment, the less defensible/logical/fair rules are going to be.

Ice dance is now overflowing with older teens and new adults who skated for years and who stifle out the younger entries because in ice dance the scoring is conservative.

 

[4everchan]

Well, maybe you should restrain yourself from shaming skaters who play by the rules, and saying that ISU needs to fudge rules again with a very narrow focus that target a very specific athlete. The more they fine-tune with only one person/fed in mind based on today's sentiment, the less defensible/logical/fair rules are going to be.

Ice dance is now overflowing with older teens and new adults who skated for years and who stifle out the younger entries because in ice dance the scoring is conservative.

I have blamed the ISU plenty of times

 

[Cutting the ice]

I will go back to my previous comment / question that for some reason, the ISU chose to no longer allow skaters / teams to compete at both the GP and JGP competitions in the same season. Why was that? It's been a rule for over a decade now and I haven't heard any protests over it.

Could that same reasoning be applied to a new rule that a skater / team that competes at a Senior Grand Prix event not be eligible for Junior Worlds? Would that benefit Junior development overall or harm it?

I think we are reacting in different ways to the conflict between the Junior competitions being there to promote development versus being used as a source of cash (sorry that latter need shouldn't be part this conversation as a justification for dropping back to junior for worlds). Countries are also torn about getting "best potential results" so more of their junior skaters get to compete in the JGP versus giving their younger skaters a chance to compete at a high level so they can get that critical experience before becoming a senior (something that comes up a lot on this list as being important).

Yes - raising the age for pairs and dance this year has had a negative impact on younger teams and their podium chances. It has narrowed the difference between what is a junior-stage competitor and a senior-stage competitor to the point in some cases - there is no difference near the top - at least in pairs. I would hope that the ISU consider if the current rules best support junior development. I don't know what the best answer is but there are definite issues with the current structure.

Another thought - perhaps Junior Worlds should not be the place where JGP spots are awarded. I get this system works really well for Senior-level but it might impede junior skater development overall. Some countries get lots of spaces they can't fill and some countries don't get enough spaces. Again - don't have the complete answer as to how spots should get divided up but there are issues with the current system.

 

[Skating91]

I will go back to my previous comment / question that for some reason, the ISU chose to no longer allow skaters / teams to compete at both the GP and JGP competitions in the same season. Why was that? It's been a rule for over a decade now and I haven't heard any protests over it.

To avoid a scenario where a skater qualifies for both the senior and junior GP finals.

Could that same reasoning be applied to a new rule that a skater / team that competes at a Senior Grand Prix event not be eligible for Junior Worlds? Would that benefit Junior development overall or harm it?

No way. The junior circuit being promoted as a way to take the pressure off junior skaters to have immediate success. They want it used as a stepping stone into seniors so they can have long productive figure skating career. If a senior skater feels they need to go back to junior competition to help prepare for their senior career then this is what the junior circuit is for.

I think we are reacting in different ways to the conflict between the Junior competitions being there to promote development versus being used as a source of cash (sorry that latter need shouldn't be part this conversation as a justification for dropping back to junior for worlds). Countries are also torn about getting "best potential results" so more of their junior skaters get to compete in the JGP versus giving their younger skaters a chance to compete at a high level so they can get that critical experience before becoming a senior (something that comes up a lot on this list as being important).

There are multiple reasons for M/B to take part. They want to add to their trophy collection, source of prizemoney, love of competing, win three spots for Georgia, promote Georgian skating, inspire Georgian juniors, gain valuable competition experience. They have only competed 5 times this year, they don't have domestic events in order to gain this valuable experience they need. H/V have already competed 7 times this season, C/M 7 times. This is exactly what the junior competition is for to help these skaters from small feds.

I take it you were aghast when that skater days away from being age 21 was teamed up with a 14 year old girl? If you think what M/B is doing is unfair, then teaming up a grown man with a small 14 year old girl gave this guy a HUGE advantage over the young male children trying to compete in pairs? This fed was also angling to get the age limit lowered so this age inappropriate pair wouldn't be inconvenienced by the rules put in place for their SAFETY especially the girl's.

Where was the outrage?

Yes - raising the age for pairs and dance this year has had a negative impact on younger teams and their podium chances. It has narrowed the difference between what is a junior-stage competitor and a senior-stage competitor to the point in some cases - there is no difference near the top - at least in pairs. I would hope that the ISU consider if the current rules best support junior development. I don't know what the best answer is but there are definite issues with the current structure.

Juniors is just a pathway to seniors. They ISU want adult skaters in their senior competitions, and the junior competition are to facilitate that development. Any junior or parents this hungry for a medal at any cost over M/B are probably in the wrong sport. They're going to have much, much more disappointment in seniors.

Another thought - perhaps Junior Worlds should not be the place where JGP spots are awarded. I get this system works really well for Senior-level but it might impede junior skater development overall. Some countries get lots of spaces they can't fill and some countries don't get enough spaces. Again - don't have the complete answer as to how spots should get divided up but there are issues with the current system.

I would have it as a complete free for all, let all the best junior skaters in the world compete and none of this quota business. If the Georgians get three spots in pairs so what? No-one was complaining about Estonia getting three spots for Euros next year.

 

[saine]

No way. The junior circuit being promoted as a way to take the pressure off junior skaters to have immediate success. They want it used as a stepping stone into seniors so they can have long productive figure skating career. If a senior skater feels they need to go back to junior competition to help prepare for their senior career then this is what the junior circuit is for.

There are multiple reasons for M/B to take part. They want to add to their trophy collection, source of prizemoney, love of competing, win three spots for Georgia, promote Georgian skating, inspire Georgian juniors, gain valuable competition experience. They have only competed 5 times this year, they don't have domestic events in order to gain this valuable experience they need. H/V have already competed 7 times this season, C/M 7 times. This is exactly what the junior competition is for to help these skaters from small feds.

I take it you were aghast when that skater days away from being age 21 was teamed up with a 14 year old girl? If you think what M/B is doing is unfair, then teaming up a grown man with a small 14 year old girl gave this guy a HUGE advantage over the young male children trying to compete in pairs? This fed was also angling to get the age limit lowered so this age inappropriate pair wouldn't be inconvenienced by the rules put in place for their SAFETY especially the girl's.

Where was the outrage?

Juniors is just a pathway to seniors. They ISU want adult skaters in their senior competitions, and the junior competition are to facilitate that development. Any junior or parents this hungry for a medal at any cost over M/B are probably in the wrong sport. They're going to have much, much more disappointment in seniors.

I would have it as a complete free for all, let all the best junior skaters in the world compete and none of this quota business. If the Georgians get three spots in pairs so what? No-one was complaining about Estonia getting three spots for Euros next year.

The reason given by Metelkina/Berulava that they're competing is for the World Standing points. I will take them at their word, and think that they look silly for not understanding how the points work since the Junior points will not help their standings for Worlds at all. They didn't mention money, that is being brought up by others. I'm sympathetic to needing money, but they are far from the only ones in that situation. That's a larger conversation for the ISU to have, and an uncomfortable one to that they need to deal with.

They are entered for Challenge Cup. That will help them more than adjusting their programs for Junior requirements in a short period of time. Whoever is giving them advice on where to compete and telling them that Junior Worlds will help their standings needs to do a better job. They didn't have a good free at Worlds after winning Junior Worlds last season, they do need rest in their schedule. I think the same for any skater who is going for three championships this season, especially with this one being the Olympic qualifying Worlds.

They had a chance for Challengers before the Grand Prix started and could compete up to three times in them. They only competed in Warsaw Cup, so there were chances to compete with ISU prize money for the top Challenger placements that they didn't take.

And you can't assign moral hypocrisy onto someone based on hypotheticals that you decided they aren't against.

 

[saine]

Weronika Ferlin has replaced Noelle Streuli in Women

 

[throw_triple_flip]

Re:the Pairs situation

I think the age limit changing is good because it's raised the standard and gives more opportunities for skaters, and it's better to watch as a spectator. And most of all, it seems to be encouraging more age appropriate teams instead of these high age gap teams we were seeing a few years ago.


Also, I think a lot of the over the top anger being aimed at the Georgian team is likely due to people disliking them intensely for other reasons because other teams (in dance too) doing exactly the same as them are not getting anywhere near the same level of hostile comments sent their way.

If they are eligible they have every right to compete and they aren't "stealing" anything from anyone. It's bizarre to expect the ISU to single them out for being "too good".

 

[throw_triple_flip]

..

Their reasons for competing don't matter- they are eligible to compete under the new rules. They don't have to justify themselves to you or any other random haters on the internet.

Also there are other sports (including some of the most mainstream) that consider people into their early twenties as juniors and have them competing against teens. It's not really unusual.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

If you think what M/B is doing is unfair, then teaming up a grown man with a small 14 year old girl gave this guy a HUGE advantage over the young male children trying to compete in pairs? This fed was also angling to get the age limit lowered so this age inappropriate pair wouldn't be inconvenienced by the rules put in place for their SAFETY especially the girl's.

Where was the outrage?

I found it so disturbing that the US federation were even considering pushing for that change. Part of the rationale for age limits is to protect young skaters. But that should thrown aside for young Pair girls, (who do a far more more dangerous sport)- because medals matter more?

I think in junior pairs the maximum age gap should be smaller than 7 years.
But looks like changing the age limits may be having that effect anyway. Thankfully.

The complaining about the older teams being too good to compete as juniors is trivial when compared to the issues raised by massive age gaps.

 

[saine]

Their reasons for competing don't matter- they are eligible to compete under the new rules. They don't have to justify themselves to you or any other random haters on the internet.

Also there are other sports (including some of the most mainstream) that consider people into their early twenties as juniors and have them competing against teens. It's not really unusual.

They provided a justification when asked. It was a silly one that had people defending them without understanding how the standing points work because of 'haters'. That's what annoys me, the selective understanding of the rules.

I still think they look silly competing here and would no matter the justification. I think the same of any skater at the same level who does and that it is not always their personal decision.

 

[ladyjane]

The perceived outrage has less to do with the convenient swapping of Jrs and Srs (officially it is that) but with the fact that a few years ago Luka was skating with someone else, and not showing care when that someone had real problems - physical and maybe mental too.

So now we are blaming them (Luka and his relatively 'new' partner) for using the eligeability rules to their advantage.

I don't know...

 

[CoyoteChris]

ugh at the Georgians for showing up this year when they have exclusively been doing senior events, and won last year. That should be illegal.
It also means that other nations, who do have better depth in pairs may get less spots for next year JGPs or JWC considering they will definitely take first place.

It's very hard to remain nice about this one. I will just scream out loud how I feel, so only my next door neighbours hear it and that way, I will preserve the decency of this post.

I will scream for us also. My nearest neighbor is 200 yards away.

 

[CoyoteChris]

I am having a little war with Proton VPN billing which I hope will be resolved feb 28th by my CC company. I am hoping there will be a Ted stream on the ISU channel that is not geoblocked.

 

[Ivana]

For Slovakia it looks that Olivia Lengyelova will replace her sister Alica. There was a post on IG which showed the nomination letter for Junior Worlds and Olivia's name was on it.

 

[DemTuppesSeine]

I hope Pidgaina/Koval will still be able to go...they had to WD from Challenge Cup (after travelling there!) because Iryna was ill. But I ahd a short chat with Artem and he was optimistic.

 

[ramurphy2005]

Luka Imedashvili and Hiro Kaewtathip have withdrawn.

Elizabeth Nou has replaced Maria Eliise Kaljuvere

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Luka Imedashvili and Hiro Kaewtathip have withdrawn.

Elizabeth Nou has replaced Maria Eliise Kaljuvere

So sad for Hiro, he already missed out on much of the season (including what was supposed to be his debut JGPs) due to an ankle fracture. Not sure if that's why he withdrew from Jr Worlds as well, but I hope he'll have more luck and less injuries next season.

Also really sad for Maria Eliise, she's not the most consistent skater, but I very much enjoy her skating, her jumps are so good when she hits them.

 

[TallyT]

I am having a little war with Proton VPN billing which I hope will be resolved feb 28th by my CC company. I am hoping there will be a Ted stream on the ISU channel that is not geoblocked.

Can you get the SBS stream from Australia, or do you need VPN for that too?

 

[dorispulaski]

There are tiles up on Peacock for everything except the Gala.