2025 Four Continents Men's Short Program | Page 14 | Golden Skate

2025 Four Continents Men's Short Program

I get your reasoning but I disagree. I would say that the last 3 World Champs in both women/men are cuddled by their federations.
Kaori has been a bit shaky this season and she had a bad GPF, but she still managed to win nationals. What is there to lose? NOT sending Kaori to 4CC is just a condescending move to the whole competition imo. Same goes for Yuma.

And I don't understand at all what the Americans are thinking. This B team in men here at 4CC is just sad. I get why Maxim didn't come, but Ilia and Andrew has no excuse. And why didn't Amber come? She's had a great season, why not go for it? Again, a condescending move to the whole competition.
And how can they choose Isabeau and Jason for Worlds? When they have proved nothing this season. And they didn't even compete at nationals!! That's cuddling big time. And I suspect that is not about sending the best skater, it is more about the money these cuddled skaters can bring in.

This mess is NOT helping the figure skating sport at all.

This diva behaviour can also be found in Russia where it has occured that some skaters (hmmm...Medvedeva etc) has skipped nationals because of 'reasons', and then later on competed at Europeans/Worlds. But the Russian diva behaviour is of a completely different nature, they are just super scared of being beaten at nationals! But they would throw themselves at any international competition if they have the chance.
First of all, calm down. It’s just a competition.
Second, the word is “coddled,” not cuddled.
Third, Isabeau did do well in her GP event before she was injured. The US men have proven time and again why Jason is the safe bet. This Worlds determines Olympic Spots. The US fed is sending the skaters most likely to secure spots for Team USA.
Finally, I don’t know how you can call any of these skaters divas. They are elite athletes who know how to strategize. Four C’s has never been seen as prestigious as Europeans, involves significant travel, and is too close to Worlds. I assume these elite athletes know what they are doing.
 
And I don't understand at all what the Americans are thinking. This B team in men here at 4CC is just sad. I get why Maxim didn't come, but Ilia and Andrew has no excuse. And why didn't Amber come? She's had a great season, why not go for it? Again, a condescending move to the whole competition.
And how can they choose Isabeau and Jason for Worlds? When they have proved nothing this season. And they didn't even compete at nationals!! That's cuddling big time. And I suspect that is not about sending the best skater, it is more about the money these cuddled skaters can bring in.
I’m sure Ilia declined. I don’t think we will see him at 4CCs ever again. Andrew is probably concentrating on Worlds.

USFS’ job is to send the skaters to Worlds who are most likely to maintain 3 spots. Jason has been consistent for many, many years. Camden has never been consistent nor has my love Jimmy.

Amber is hopefully resting and training for Worlds. It’s been a very long season for her.
This mess is NOT helping the figure skating sport at all.

This diva behaviour can also be found in Russia where it has occured that some skaters (hmmm...Medvedeva etc) has skipped nationals because of 'reasons', and then later on competed at Europeans/Worlds. But the Russian diva behaviour is of a completely different nature, they are just super scared of being beaten at nationals! But they would throw themselves at any international competition if they have the chance.
4CCs is not really seen as that important in the US. Casual fans may not even be aware of it. This is not hurting figure skating in the US.
 
First of all, calm down. It’s just a competition.
Second, the word is “coddled,” not cuddled.
Third, Isabeau did do well in her GP event before she was injured. The US men have proven time and again why Jason is the safe bet. This Worlds determines Olympic Spots. The US fed is sending the skaters most likely to secure spots for Team USA.
Finally, I don’t know how you can call any of these skaters divas. They are elite athletes who know how to strategize. Four C’s has never been seen as prestigious as Europeans, involves significant travel, and is too close to Worlds. I assume these elite athletes know what they are doing.
🤣I am perfectly calm I assure you. I am just lamenting the obvious downside to the sport that is Figure Skating, and how the big Feds are out for money not sport.

Hmm, the last we saw of Isabeau was a very disappointed girl at Skate America when she finished 3rd. I think it's more likely that her very bad skating technique finally got the best of her and her coaches are shielding it.
Jason brings in the money, but he is not a great figure skater by todays technical standards.
If the US have their blinds on and think that this is gonna bring 3 spots for men/women at the next Olympics, so be it.

4CC IS prestigious in ISU rankings. Skaters get valuable WS points equivalent to Europeans (and more than GPs). If you choose to not go there, it's your loss.

It is not too close to Worlds, it's a month. Skaters deal with this all the time during the GPs. Torgashev did GP France, next week Japan. Kagiyama did Japan, next week Finland. Sakamoto did Canada, then two weeks later Japan.
 
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The thing is, I think 4CC is prestigious regardless of whether top skaters choose to compete at it or not. If fans choose to see 4CC as "less" just because some skaters didn't compete, it's their choice, but the points and opportunities remain the same. I respect whoever is able to compete at 4CC with a full schedule and after a long season, and be able to maintain their health. The top skaters who don't do the same has the position and privilege to do so, and they voluntarily gave up a chance to win points, which is fine. It's not that easy to maintain health and win 4CC, lol, some top skaters only managed to win it pretty late in their career.

To be honest even with some of the B teams at 4CC, it's pretty much on par (if not better lol) with Euros this year, and it speaks to the depth of the local field at some of the 4CC countries compared to the field at Europeans.

There is a reason why I think people see 4CC as "less" than Europeans, but it has nothing to do with which skaters are participating and how long the competition has been there.
 
Most skaters in the US who need money to train don’t work full time at a “real” job. They coach, they choreograph, Nica Digerness raises and sells fish. They have fundíng links. Training time is precious and skating careers are short. I just think he is doing himself a disservice.

Andrew has been far more consistent this season than Camden.

Also, Jason has a ton of fans.

I think US fed has many more choices than the French fed do.
All of those options are there, yes but they are pretty small. As you say, skating careers are short and we don't know his circumstances, or his plans for those sixty years I mentioned. Would I do it in his place? Probably not. But unless USFS are willing to stump up a LOT more money to support them (hell, even Malinin according to his agent is scratching for sponsors) then they have to be allowed to make their own decisions... and wear the consequences, as he is doing. It's a pity, but it is what it is.

And where did I say Jason doesn't have a lot of fans? Speaking of which...

Jason brings in the money, but he is not a great figure skater by todays technical standards.
Err, he is one of the great figure skaters (look at his wiki page/resume, most skaters would kill for it), just not a great quad jumper which is what the ISU /USFS/JSU etc in their infinite wisdom think is all that is needed to make someone a star like they had in previous generations (especially if they spin pr about the EmperorsNewClothes artistry and skating skills that said quad jumpers clearly and oh so suddenly develop).
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4CCs is not really seen as that important in the US. Casual fans may not even be aware of it. This is not hurting figure skating in the US.
It's certainly not helping either.:shrug:

There is a reason why I think people see 4CC as "less" than Europeans, but it has nothing to do with which skaters are participating and how long the competition has been there.
Me, I find the words 'cultural cringe' come to mind...
 
And where did I say Jason doesn't have a lot of fans? Speaking of which...


Err, he is one of the great figure skaters (look at his wiki page/resume, most skaters would kill for it), just not a great quad jumper which is what the ISU /USFS/JSU etc in their infinite wisdom think is all that is needed to make someone a star like they had in previous generations (especially if they spin pr about the EmperorsNewClothes artistry and skating skills that said quad jumpers clearly and oh so suddenly develop).
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And therein lies the problem I think. This sport has also a show interest that it wants to protect. Jason is a fantastic showman on the ice and this sport wants that. But at the same time, there is where you lose me and a lot of other sports fans I think.

To be clear, I never watch galas. I find them boring. There is no competition, the skaters don't show off what they are capable of. I just don't see the point of them at all.

So, I find myself to be a technical figure skating fan. But I can honestly say that skaters that show off just tech and no artistry are also boring to me. So there is a need for me to have the whole package to like the skater. But I would never trade the tech skills for just a showman. Then it's just a show and not a sport. I understand that a lot of money in this sport lies in the 'show', but that is just not for me.
 
Not everyone made GPF. And she won it. She doesn’t need World standing points.
Well, a 4CC win would give her more WS points than a GPF win, so where is her priorities?

And, Mone Chiba was 2nd at GPF. She will be at 4CC and Worlds.
 
And therein lies the problem I think. This sport has also a show interest that it wants to protect. Jason is a fantastic showman on the ice and this sport wants that. But at the same time, there is where you lose me and a lot of other sports fans I think.

To be clear, I never watch galas. I find them boring. There is no competition, the skaters don't show off what they are capable of. I just don't see the point of them at all.

So, I find myself to be a technical figure skating fan. But I can honestly say that skaters that show off just tech and no artistry are also boring to me. So there is a need for me to have the whole package to like the skater. But I would never trade the tech skills for just a showman. Then it's just a show and not a sport. I understand that a lot of money in this sport lies in the 'show', but that is just not for me.
The thing is that too much of TPTB - and fans of the quad specialists - seem to think that jumps are the only measure of technical excellence, turning the sport into a new form of pogo-ing on ice. They matter, sure, but skating skills are also a part, a big part, of the technique and prowess of a great skater and in their heart of hearts the ISU knows it which is why they keep hiking up Ilia Malinin's non-jumping grades to try and convince people he's another Patrick Chan. Whereas Jason far outclasses him - and outclassed Nathan Chen for that matter - on technical skills that actually involved skating. It's also why so many people really do think Trusova was robbed at the Olympics - the only thing that matters, after all, is quadquadquad (okay and maybe triple axel but not much according to the quadquadquad brigade. Even though 99% of quads these days are pretty damn ugly.)

No one is saying you have to like galas or shows (though I would remind folk of Belinda's comment in the 2018 gala "with one delayed single axel, one triple axel... (he) just gave a master class in what figure skating actually is" because it was so true.) But saying that the only mark of a champion is how much of the program is spinning in the air and nothing about what they do on the actual ice...? No thanks. That's why the jumping competitions in Russia bore me to death. That's also imo one reason why in Japan, one of the two centres of the public interest in the sport these days, shows sell even more tickets than most competitions.

And on a purely practical note, Jason has been keeping elite figure skating in the US going in a nuts and bolts sense the last few years as much as if not more than Nathan, and way more than the ladies or ID.
 
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Also it's notable that Japan can "force" its top skaters to attend certain competitions, just this season that competition was not 4CC but AWG (Asian Winter Games), because the authority overseeing it in Japan is Japan Olympic Committee (JOC), not the Japan Skating Federation (JSF). There is even a clause that if a selected skater withdraws from AWG, unless the reason is due to injury or any other physical problems, he/ she/ they must give up all competitions during the rest of the season- including Worlds.

A similar situation happened in 2017 AWG (hosted at Sapporo so home AWG for Japan) actually, but that time it was the National Champions who were "forced" with the same clause, even though 4CC was exactly the week before AWG. All National Champions had to go, but the other team members did not have any overlap (only Satoko Miyahara missed both due to injury, she would later also not compete at Worlds and WTT that season, leading to Japan losing 1 of their Olympic spot).

Now this may sound stupid but each country has its own things (as it is said, money is the priority here- and winning medals at AWG as opposed to 4CC may open up the government purse wider, as AWG is under the OWG directly), and I think JSF "helped" (or as it is said "coddled") the skaters by allowing them to choose to not be selected for 4CC which is a week after. Considering the volatility of their own field aside from Yuma and Kaori it's probably for the best lol.
 
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I totally agree with you. (and no, Trusova was not robbed at the Olympics)

And as I said, I am a tech fan and an artistic fan. But that is not the issue here. I was simply complaining why not the top skaters from Japan/US go to the 4CC. The time difference and travel arguments don't make sense to me. It is simply a matter of priorities imo, and those priorities lies elsewhere than in the sport itself it seems. I don't care about the show aspect of this sport that is galas, and if these galas and shows matter more than to compete at 4CC, I am disappointed.
 
Dare I ask why Canada sent their 15th place skater?
I just hit the point in the replay where Aleksa was introduced that way.

Aleksa was in 15th since he withdrew after the short and only 15 men ended up competing in Senior Men. He was recovering from RSV and wasn't in shape to compete at Nationals. Skate Canada had decided shortly before Nationals that the Worlds spot would be decided at 4CC, and Aleksa is one of the men who is a contender for the spot. The 4CC spots were pretty much decided before Nationals due to that.
 
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