I feel sad about this whole situation. I am happy that Petrosian and Gumennik might be able to compete at the Olympics, But not allowing any pairs and dancers is just making the situation more complicated. Wouldn't be surprised if Russia boycotts the event.
ISU publishes the list of AINs allowed to take part in the Olympic Qualification
- Thread starter AlexBreeze
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- Jun 21, 2003
I know her. I think that most international figure skating judges are at least as aware as I am about what's going on in their sport. They may have even heard of Gorbacheva.
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I hope the ISU didn't merely rely on the Ukrainian sanctions list on who to allow and disallow. The problem with that is that the Ukrainians added masses of figure skaters to the sanctions list for 2 events: The post Olympics ceremony at the Kremlin and a Plushenko ice show shortly after the start of the war that had some kind of propaganda event before it that the figure skaters didn't know was going to happen. I completely disagree that these two events should lead to any disqualification. Ukrainians can't be the arbitrators of neutrality considering they want all Russians banned and create these name padded lists to point to why they should be. They should be listened to but not all of their claims can be taken at face value.
But Stepanova and Bukin were in attendance for a big Putin speech long after the start of the war, posted on social media after the speech(and thus could be seen as endorsing the content of said speech), and then deleted the social media posts about it when they knew their "neutrality" would be considered. They should have not been submitted for consideration and it's doubtful that they would win an appeal. They submitting an appeal would just slow down the process when time is limited.
Besides attending the post Olympic ceremony at the Kremlin, Galliamov made some comments to the media about meeting Putin that at that post Olympic ceremony that seem a bit gushing though I think it's his way of being polite. I still disagree with Mishina and Galliamov not being able to be considered neutral if the sole reason is the post Olympic ceremony at the Kremlin. But I would not be surprised though if something else was the issue. It would be one of many different things, but Galliamov talks a lot and I would not be surprised if they found something disqualifying in what he's said.
But Stepanova and Bukin were in attendance for a big Putin speech long after the start of the war, posted on social media after the speech(and thus could be seen as endorsing the content of said speech), and then deleted the social media posts about it when they knew their "neutrality" would be considered. They should have not been submitted for consideration and it's doubtful that they would win an appeal. They submitting an appeal would just slow down the process when time is limited.
Besides attending the post Olympic ceremony at the Kremlin, Galliamov made some comments to the media about meeting Putin that at that post Olympic ceremony that seem a bit gushing though I think it's his way of being polite. I still disagree with Mishina and Galliamov not being able to be considered neutral if the sole reason is the post Olympic ceremony at the Kremlin. But I would not be surprised though if something else was the issue. It would be one of many different things, but Galliamov talks a lot and I would not be surprised if they found something disqualifying in what he's said.
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I have a big problem with this whole Olympic Truce thing. No figure skater can either break or abide by a truce or cease fire. Only national governments, military establishments and terrorist organizations can. Therefore the IOC should not be in the business of drawing up lists of benign skaters and evil ones.
If Russia violated the IOC charter that they agreed in happier times to support, then kick Russia out of the games, period, If the Russian Skating Federation is guilty of systematic drug violations, kick the Russian Federation out of the ISU.
Woud we miss them? Well. I for one would. But to use an old circus maxim, one monkey don’t stop the show.
Picking and choosing among individual saints and sinners – that does not really fall within the scope of these sports oversight bodies, and furthermore they do not have the resources and expertise to do it.
Did Adellia Petrosin shoot any Ukrainians? Does she have to present proof that she did not to get in the good graces of the IOC or the ISU? Is she expected to show evidence that she has never saluted the Russian flag? Is she required to turn down an invitation to skate in a show if a picture of Putin is displayed in the arena?
Where is the common sense?
If Russia violated the IOC charter that they agreed in happier times to support, then kick Russia out of the games, period, If the Russian Skating Federation is guilty of systematic drug violations, kick the Russian Federation out of the ISU.
Woud we miss them? Well. I for one would. But to use an old circus maxim, one monkey don’t stop the show.
Picking and choosing among individual saints and sinners – that does not really fall within the scope of these sports oversight bodies, and furthermore they do not have the resources and expertise to do it.
Did Adellia Petrosin shoot any Ukrainians? Does she have to present proof that she did not to get in the good graces of the IOC or the ISU? Is she expected to show evidence that she has never saluted the Russian flag? Is she required to turn down an invitation to skate in a show if a picture of Putin is displayed in the arena?
Where is the common sense?
It what capacity can Russia be pushing for anything? They are all banned. I have wondered about Russia flying lots of people to China to pack the stands to cheer for her wildly! Maybe that could do something? Or it could backfire. Because unlike with the past there are no Russian judges, callers, refs, anything to push Russian skaters.
Most of the judges are not fans so much as they are promoters of their national federations and their countries skaters. Is a Canadian UK French judge watching Adelia Petrosian in their free time?
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I think you are going farther and farther out on a very slender limb here. It seems obvious to me that anyone involved in finternational figure skating would be cognizant of what Russia skaters are up to.
I dunno, though. Maybe somewhere there is an ISU judge who has never heard of Petrosian. But I doubt it. And certainly not now, when it is beginning to look like she will be at the Olympics and is preparing a boatload of quads to bring with her.
If they want to start scheming with each other to throw downgrades and low PCSs ar her to allow the ISU to save face, well, they better get on with their scheming. Pretending ignorance, no, that's not a good look.
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I have heard that Galliamov has in the past vocalized his support for Putin and the war against Ukraine on social media. I have not personally seen any of these statements of his support, but if they were posted on social media at any point by Galliamov, that would obviously negate any neutrality on his part.
I haven't heard of any vocal political support for Putin's war from Boi/Kos. But since they were put forth as substitutes, they were never reviewed to determine their neutrality. Possibly, B/K should have been submitted as the main selection with K/K as subs.
When you say that B/K and M/G were sanctioned, do you mean by Ukraine? If so, do such sanctions play any role in the ISU's review process?
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This is one of the official lists of Russian figure skaters considered by Ukraine as "supporting the war" - this one is published on the website of Ukraine's Ministry of Youth and Sport. I think this is not the only list but I do not have time to research the other 2 or 3 atm.
If you click on the name, you can read the justification (in English).
As to the question if the Ukrainian lists and sanctions are considered by ISU, I have never seen anything official on this, but I imagine they must be. I mean, what other sources should they base their assessments on if not this?
If you click on the name, you can read the justification (in English).
As to the question if the Ukrainian lists and sanctions are considered by ISU, I have never seen anything official on this, but I imagine they must be. I mean, what other sources should they base their assessments on if not this?
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That's very interesting indeed - thank you very much for the link!This is one of the official lists of Russian figure skaters considered by Ukraine as "supporting the war" - this one is published on the website of Ukraine's Ministry of Youth and Sport. I think this is not the only list but I do not have time to research the other 2 or 3 atm.
If you click on the name, you can read the justification (in English).
As to the question if the Ukrainian lists and sanctions are considered by ISU, I have never seen anything official on this, but I imagine they must be. I mean, what other sources should they base their assessments on if not this?
I would imagine that Ukrainian sanctions were definitely considered by ISU. I would go even further by saying the Ukrainian lists were all they had and did not even bother to gather more information.
Now the next interesting bit: when I saw the name of Lisa Tukt on the said list I got surprised and clicked on it to find more - well, her 'crime' apparently was taking a part in a a show called Champions Union which took place in Tula (town near Moscow region)). If memory serves me right, Lisa walked out of that show and never participated. So did Kolyada who is also on the poster but was not there!
Note: I am not 100% sure about Lisa, I will dig deeper and find out (if possible)
I am 100% sure about Kolyada but in fairness his name is not on the list so they [Ukrainians] must have done some verification.
The RusFed must be either downright stupid or had some reasons of their own, when they submitted M/G, B/K and S/B, they must have known of that list.?!
P.S. Eteri is also on the list and yet she seems to be immune to any sanctions (from ISU)
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Literally dozens of prominent figure skaters have been phograpghed shaking hands with Trump. Here are Scott Hamilton, Tanith Belbin, Evan Lysacek, and Sasha Cohen at a benefit for Skating in Harlem.Which U.S. skaters do you imagine desiring to shake hands with Trump?
Many, many skaters have been photographed with Putin. Figure skaters run the gamut in terms of political positions and, if anything, they are less politically active as a group than are the generality of citizens. This is a nothing-burger.
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^ I did not need much time to find out, yes, Lisa skated at that show 
Now I thought about what could have given me that idea and I am certain that I read her interview where she said that she was not aware that it would be a pro-war event till the very late when she could not pull out. Sorry for an incorrect info. It must be an old age!
Now I thought about what could have given me that idea and I am certain that I read her interview where she said that she was not aware that it would be a pro-war event till the very late when she could not pull out. Sorry for an incorrect info. It must be an old age!
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Which U.S. skaters do you imagine desiring to shake hands with Trump?
Regarding the photos of Michelle Kwan with Bush Jr., so what! Michelle was invited to attend a WH state dinner with Chinese dignitaries and she felt honored to do so. Her attendance did not denote support for any controversial policies of Bush Jr's administration. Plus, MK was no longer a competitive skater at that time. It was at that state dinner that Michelle met and had a conversation with Condoleeza Rice (a former figure skater). Their conversation led to Michelle's first diplomacy position with the U.S. state department. As we know, Michelle also holds academic degrees in International Studies and International Relations, along with an Honorary Doctorate of Humane Letters. Michelle's character, hard work patriotism, and dedication to the sport of figure skating and to sport in general, is unquestioned. Moreover, she has worked for and represented around the world both Republican and Democrat U.S. administrations, but never for Trump.
So what that Sarah Hughes also visited the WH after her gold medal win in Salt Lake City. She is also long retired now. Her visit did not signal any personal support for specific government policies either. Another point is that the U.S. government is not providing direct, targeted, or meddling financial support to any sports athletes, unlike the Russian government. Yes, U.S. Olympic skaters often visit the WH to celebrate their Olympic participation. That is a far cry from engaging in political rallies and vocal social media support for a dictator's war of aggression against a neighboring country. ...
I would underline that similarly to the history of Michelle K and Sarah H, the attendance by the Knierims and Vincent at the White House celebration for Team USA's 2018 Winter Olympians (from all sports) did not denote any personal support for Trump.
All other 2018 Olympic figure skaters from Team USA had a schedule conflict because they were on tour for SOI.
Of the SOI skaters with the schedule conflict, Adam was the only one (IIRC) who spoke out with a clear statement [ETA: I'm paraphrasing] that he never would have attended the White House celebration anyway.
(The Knierims were not part of the 2018 SOI tour at all; SOI booked Vincent only as 2018 guest skater for the final six stops in western states.)
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I would add that Adam made a very clear statement, that by not attending he does not support. Just as other sports teams/players have not attended the white house meetings as a clear reflection of their beliefs and values.
As far as I'm concerned you show up, it mean you support them in their role.
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Yes, that is what I meant regarding Adam.
It also is true that there are athletes who view a White House visit in recognition of a sports achievement to be non-political, and they clearly have said that their attendance at the WH is non-political.
I completely disagree with your opinion.
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- Jan 28, 2013
You are projecting your beliefs onto others and demanding that they act in accordance with your views or you will categorize them one way or the other.
In the highly unlikely event I were to be invited to the White House, I would gladly accept, and it would not matter who was the President. I would accept an invite from either Obama or Trump. It would be an honor in both cases.
Some individuals may choose not to attend an official reception/visit for any number of reasons. Others may choose to attend for any number of reasons.
Do I believe every person who attended a White House reception under Obama supports him? No. Do I believe every person who attends a White House reception under Trump supports him? No.
Russia has not bought rights to air the 2026 Olympics yet. It may never. Some small tv station bought isu rights. 2 figure skaters is hardly going to get them a lot of money and no money yet for ioc. So I’m not sure why ioc and isu have done this 2 Russian figure skaters thing. Russians may actually never see Petrosian live- legally
lol the people who least know or support Petrosian are the most likely to see her
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In 2012 Kristi Yamaguchi came out in support of Mitt Romney (even made a TV ad for him) when he ran against Obama's re-election. Kristi had become acquainted with Romney when he took over the reigns of the 2002 Olympics and Kristi was involved in skating publicity appearances. She was impressed by Romney's leadership qualities.
Here she is about the same time graciously accepting Obama's invitation to attend the annual Easter Egg Rolling Party on the White House lawn. She read her book Dream Big, Little Pig to the assembled children.
[In the sequel, It's a Big World, Little Pig, Poppy goes to the Olympics. There she makes friends with other animals from all over the world. She meets a beautiful figure skating hancho crane from Japan and a speed skating kangaroo from Australia. The book ends joyously when she takes the ice for her performance. We never find out if she won or lost... that was irrelevant.]
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Well, ISU was supposed to conduct their own independent review of this "neutrality" and not simply take any Ukranian-made sanctions list and run ahead with it. Ukraine can't possibly be simultaneously an interested party and the judge on this, because of course this negates any resemblance of fairness in the process from the very start.
The fact that the ISU also refuses to communicate the exact reasons for the refusals, and denies any right to appeal, obviously do no wonders to support the image of a transparent process and does not reflect well on the ISU themselves. The whole thing looks more like a marketing trick, actually a rather cruel joke on the athletes involved who have already had years of sanctions through no direct fault of their own.
Regarding all the discussions about athletes visiting government authorities, I think the point here is actually the hypocritical double-standard: those who attend events and shake hands with Bush / Trump can't be assumed to be supporting their actions, they just were there for very good reasons X that mean nothing and say nothing about the athletes' beliefs. But any Russian athlete who attends an official event or is pictured with Putin is immediately considered to endorse and support all his actions. Basically, starting from the same facts, the conclusions drawn are opposite, and this only shows the bias involved in the judgement.
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