2025 CS Cranberry Cup Senior Women Short Program

[TwinnerA]

I like Isabeau’s new short program. When I looked it up on Shazam though as she skated, it came up as Zoo Be Zoo Be Zoo (With Peter Sellers) Sophia Loren rather than Jessica Pare.

I’m wondering as well what happened to make her wear the shorts and tee. Perhaps her costume didn't arrive in time and she was literally stuck without a costume. Maybe it was uncomfortable or didn’t fit properly. That would indicate poor planning, but who knows what led to her wearing the “exhibition type attire”.

 

[LazyFuzai]

Just a warmup,but some girls looks really stiffed.

Issabeu: That's was nice even with this Loop.She looks fresh and happy with this while skating with her training costume You could easily see who has experience.

Jia:Idk,it wasn't bad,but it wasn't also anything good.Looks really stiff with her legs.Not happy with her skating again,but hope its only first competition.The worst part was when I thought I saw Wooden girl Soeyoung Kim at K&C.Her face were looking similar.Just don't end like her

Minchae:Too many shortcomings from her,but program looks promising.

Josephine:Quite solid,nothing impressive

Sofia:That was something.Super confident in every part of her skate.Both hands up in every jump,having fun in her Stsq as well.Thats what we like.

 

[LazyFuzai]

I like Isabeau’s new short program. When I looked it up on Shazam though as she skated, it came up as Zoo Be Zoo Be Zoo (With Peter Sellers) Sophia Loren rather than Jessica Pare.

I’m wondering as well what happened to make her wear the shorts and tee. Perhaps her costume didn't arrive in time and she was literally stuck without a costume. Maybe it was uncomfortable or didn’t fit properly. That would indicate poor planning, but who knows what led to her wearing the “exhibition type attire”.

The funny part is it looks like warmup costume,but still suits her very well.Don't think it affect her performance since it's easier to skate in this most likely

 

[jersey1302]

The funny part is it looks like warmup costume,but still suits her very well.Don't think it affect her performance since it's easier to skate in this most likely

I thought the same thing lol. I was like.. is she just wearing her practse attire? haha. I was unsure I liked this program to be perfectly honest. I really am not one to look at programs this early and judge because theres far too many I dislike at this point in the season when they are so new. It is however fantastic to see how far the programs come through out the year. I will def wait to see this one in some GP events to judge it lol

 

[Skating91]

The 3Lz exit was not unstable, but I have no idea how a judge gave her +4 for it anyways. Crazy!


If Gushchina is getting low 70s for her best skates, Samo's skate here taking 66 is generous. Yes Gushchina is underscored, but even taking a fairly scored mid 70s Frolova performance I dont see Samo being 10 under as underscored at all, completely different level. If she was skating in her "own" country I think she would be getting the same or less.

Her Pres/Comp seems similar to Vazhnova last season which again is very generous. I have her in 6/7 one judge even gave her an 8 for presentation I think thats crazy.


Agaeva gets 30 you think Samo is better? I dont personally.

International judging is less strict than for Russian girls in general. A skater with zero reputation and a popped combo in the first half just got nearly 32 PCS. Shimada gets higher PCS than Valieva skating Girl on a Ball. For me there is no comparison between Valieva and Shimada one is still very juniorish in her execution of her content and skates small and the other was almost the complete skater at 13. Schizas was getting nearly 31 PCS at World's

 

[Mathematician]

International judging is less strict than for Russian girls in general. A skater with zero reputation and a popped combo in the first half just got nearly 32 PCS. Shimada gets higher PCS than Valieva skating Girl on a Ball. For me there is no comparison between Valieva and Shimada one is still very juniorish in her execution of her content and skates small and the other was almost the complete skater at 13. Schizas was getting nearly 31 PCS at World's

When you put it that way I do agree with your point. You are also right that we are coming in with different standards. It will take some getting used to for me to understand the international standard you are much better versed than I am with these things. I suppose I can see the case for overscoring of some athletes rather than underscoring for Samodelkina specifically from an absolute metric. I think she deserved 29 with proper scrutiny. I think Isabeau didn't deserve 33.5. She even got a 9.00 on composition not really defensible. Though I also argue Hilmer getting a 6.25 on presentation is indefensible likewise. Jia freezes a lot and gets clunky, lets her hands down sometimes but 31 isnt that high and she is really good. I dont know. I think her program was much better than Samo's but the execution was worse at this event. I'd have them pretty even in PCS. I do still have Isabeau over Samo as a technician for reasons above. Better spins and levels. Her jumps are big too though Samo's are much smoother and more consistent. 5 point gap is pretty big I'd have it closer to 3. Interested to see how the FS goes.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

International judging is less strict than for Russian girls in general. A skater with zero reputation and a popped combo in the first half just got nearly 32 PCS. Shimada gets higher PCS than Valieva skating Girl on a Ball. For me there is no comparison between Valieva and Shimada one is still very juniorish in her execution of her content and skates small and the other was almost the complete skater at 13. Schizas was getting nearly 31 PCS at World's

And again, a skater with 4 (!) Jr Worlds medals is not a skater with zero reputation. An actual skater with basically zero reputation is someone like Sonja Hilmer, who has never been to any major competitions or even had a host spot at a GP. Someone like Katie Shen, who has never even competed at a Challenger or JGP prior to this season. And they at least still get a little boost by being from a big federation. Were their PCS too generous for you? I would say no.

Reputation scoring is also absolutely a thing in Russian domestic competitions. Or do you want to tell me that Valieva deserved the highest PCS in her last season when she barely had the stamina to get through her Free Skate and the ice coverage (whether by design or ability) of that program was atrocious?

And, at the risk of repeating myself, Valieva had four international Junior competitions, while Shimada has so far had 12, so three times as many chances to get a high PCS score. Valieva never even competed at a Junior competition as the reigning Jr World champion. And yes, that matters. Ask Trusova, whose PCS climbed over 4 points in total from 2017/18 to 2018/19. Or Medvedeva, whose PCS even climbed almost 6 points from 2013/14 to 2014/15.
If anything, Shimada's PCS have been less consistently boosted than past Jr World champions. Some of her lowest PCS are from this past season, despite similar TES at times. JGP Latvia was especially brutal.

 

[Mathematician]

Reputation scoring is also absolutely a thing in Russian domestic competitions.

TBH I think their scoring is more indicative of blatant favouritism and politics as opposed to standard reputation judging. New faces get gifts if they come from the right place while others have been prevalent for years and still get hosed. I agree with the rest of what you're saying. Though I wish reputation judging wasn't a thing at all.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

TBH I think their scoring is more indicative of blatant favouritism and politics as opposed to standard reputation judging. New faces get gifts if they come from the right place while others have been prevalent for years and still get hosed. I agree with the rest of what you're saying. Though I wish reputation judging wasn't a thing at all.

To be fair, that kind of political boost is also a thing in international competitions. Maybe not as blatant, but it's there. Skaters from big feds often get a bit of a boost compared to small fed skaters, but that pales in comparison to the boost top skaters get - Regardless of country.

It would be quite interesting to see how a mid-field skater was scored internationally before and after switching from a big to a small fed, but I'm blanking on skaters who did that and kept their performance level, at least before the ban. Gubanova switched before the ban, and I guess she scored similarly enough (ISU SB 198.65 in 2018/19 and 203.91 in 2021/22). She made a few more errors at 2018 Golden Spin, so it makes sense for that score to be a bit lower, but the SP scores were practically identical.

Reputation judging isn't great, but it exists, in one way or the other. It's not smart to ignore it, especially when trying to make sweeping statements (a la "All skaters from country X" are underscored or "All skaters from country Y are overscored."), because that often ignores the reality of the situation of some skaters. Someone like Sonja is not going to be treated the same as someone like Isabeau, even though they are from the same country.
The reality is also that it's a positive bias, mostly, even if people tend to focus more on perceived negative biases (that are usually born out of someone else being treated favourably). The end result is the same, of course, but there's just a difference between overscoring and underscoring. The motivation for actual underscoring feels far more sinister than for overscoring, which is sometimes even just the result of very strategically placed jumps (the tech panel camera is not the broadcast replay camera).

 

[4everchan]

The reality is also that it's a positive bias, mostly, even if people tend to focus more on perceived negative biases (that are usually born out of someone else being treated favourably). The end result is the same, of course, but there's just a difference between overscoring and underscoring. The motivation for actual underscoring feels far more sinister than for overscoring, which is sometimes even just the result of very strategically placed jumps (the tech panel camera is not the broadcast replay camera).

This part is especially relevant so I am quoting it for emphasis. Judges won't go out of their way to penalize. They might over-reward some but they are not trying to push down others. The entire IJS is based on rewarding rather than punishing.

Finally, in the case that led to this entire discussion : many skating fans seem to agree with the scoring of the judges ... so it's not just the judges who think that skater A should have received higher PCS than skater B, but many fans as well. I think it's normal that people have diverging opinions when it comes to scoring but in the end, it doesn't mean that there is a concrete negative will to mark down someone. To me, it starts sounding like conspiracy theories at times.

 

[Mathematician]

This part is especially relevant so I am quoting it for emphasis. Judges won't go out of their way to penalize. They might over-reward some but they are not trying to push down others.

Well theres another difference between a certain domestic system and the internationals, lol.

I agree in that I haven't seen any serious unwarranted "penalizations" but there are definitely plenty of lowballs. E.g. again I think Sonja getting a 6.25 is a pretty clear lowball.

Finally, in the case that led to this entire discussion : many skating fans seem to agree with the scoring of the judges

Really? I dont know. Check out the comments on Samodelkina's replay on YouTube. Seems to be a pretty strong dissident consensus if that not an oxymoron. Funnily enough one I disagree with I think she was scored fine. Anyways I see this all the time.

 

[4everchan]

Well theres another difference between a certain domestic system and the internationals, lol.

I am certainly not talking about domestic competitions

I agree in that I haven't seen any serious unwarranted "penalizations" but there are definitely plenty of lowballs. E.g. again I think Sonja getting a 6.25 is a pretty clear lowball.

Sonja should get higher PCS. If anything, original and quirky doesn't always transform into higher PCS. Judges tend to reward more classical, flowing styles. That's where I'd like to see some adjustments. The same goes for ice dance where "romantic" is often easier rewarded.

Really? I dont know. Check out the comments on Samodelkina's replay on YouTube. Seems to be a pretty strong dissident consensus if that not an oxymoron. Funnily enough one I disagree with I think she was scored fine. Anyways I see this all the time.

I was referring only to this thread, where a couple people were on Samo's team while most seemed to be on Shin's team I stay away from X and youtube comments for obvious reasons, one being that they rarely represent me or how I have experienced an event. (plus I don't read Russian and many of the comments are written in Russian)