Ladies Short | Page 10 | Golden Skate

Ladies Short

Beautiful Mao(slimmer than last season?), Beautiful costume, and Beautiful music...
I am sorry she looked too nervous to express herself into music especially after she singled the second loop jump. I believe this program will get stronger and stronger as the season goes. Good luck to Mao for tomorrow. :clap:

Are there any videos of Joannie and Caroline?
 
Blades of Passion said:
Mao deserved to win this SP.

The problem with the judging here was the massive negative GOE she got her for Triple Flip because of singling the second jump. Failing to do an element in the SP should result in a 1 point deduction, not negative GOE on the element.

Joannie also failed to do the minimum combination required (Triple-Double) but, because of the current rules, she didn't get any deduction. She already had -3 GOE on her Flip because she FELL on it.
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I disagree I think that Mao missed two elements. Rochette ONE. You should get minus 3 GOE if you botch in element. In fact, I'd argue that not only should you get minus 3 GOE, but you should also get additional points deducted of your score, if this is done in the short program.

And for the record Mao got more points for her 3flip single loop, than Rochette got (when you add in the point deduction for her fall) for 3 flip fall.

Personally I vote -2 automatic deduction extra for every element you miss. (Miss being botched combo, fall, or let's say a double instead of the triple that was required.) That's MY vote. A fall should get altogether minus 3 plus minus 3 GOE) 58 for Mao and 59 for Rochette was a joke.

(I'd have it 49 for Zhang, 54 for Mao, and 57 for Rochette)
 
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Blades of Passion said:
Mao deserved to win this SP.

The problem with the judging here was the massive negative GOE she got her for Triple Flip because of singling the second jump. Failing to do an element in the SP should result in a 1 point deduction, not negative GOE on the element.

Joannie also failed to do the minimum combination required (Triple-Double) but, because of the current rules, she didn't get any deduction. She already had -3 GOE on her Flip because she FELL on it.
Click to expand...

Mao also failed to do a solo triple jump, doubling it instead — which is two botched jump elements to Joannie's one. I really have no idea why people are so up in arms that Rochette is ahead of Asada in these circumstances.

And lest you forget, popping a jump into a single is just about the most costly mistake you can make under COP, worse in a lot of cases than a fall.
 
rain said:
Mao also failed to do a solo triple jump, doubling it instead — which is two botched jump elements to Joannie's one. I really have no idea why people are so up in arms that Rochette is ahead of Asada in these circumstances.
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Because no one (maybe except Canadian fans) considers Rochette as a top skater comparable to world medalists. I think Mao with one mistake should always be ahead of perfectly clean Rochette. Yuna Kim's score at worlds SP was very close to Rochette's. At least she landed a triple (f)lip-triple toe combo.
 
Will we see some change in Mao's jump layout in the future? It might be worth considering 3F/3T and 3lp instead 3F/3lp and 3lz. Surely it will hurt in terms of base points and Mao is always vulnerable to UR in 3T but at least she is less likely to miss combo and will get more points for lp than her flutz. It will hurt her PCS if she doesn't include lutz in her SP but this jump layout is less likely to create disaster.
 
with two mistakes, Mao should NOT be in 1st place. Am I the only one who isn't too impressed with Mao's new short? It seems like she has too much chreo and transitions going on and not enough time to gather speed with crossovers? I thought she looked slow. And I don't like her sideway layback position at all, she should get rid of it, it looks like she got gum stuck in her hair and trying to get it out.
 
rain said:
Mao also failed to do a solo triple jump, doubling it instead — which is two botched jump elements to Joannie's one. I really have no idea why people are so up in arms that Rochette is ahead of Asada in these circumstances.

And lest you forget, popping a jump into a single is just about the most costly mistake you can make under COP, worse in a lot of cases than a fall.
Click to expand...

Remember the days when missing an element in the short program was .5 deduction on the technical mark see 6.0 That's what it should be today. What is the freaking point of the short program otherwise. That's why I say -3 GOE and minus 2 automatic deduction for every missed element (minus 6 all together for a fall on a jump)
 
ks777 said:
with two mistakes, Mao should NOT be in 1st place. Am I the only one who isn't too impressed with Mao's new short? It seems like she has too much chreo and transitions going on and not enough time to gather speed with crossovers? I thought she looked slow. And I don't like her sideway layback position at all, she should get rid of it, it looks like she got gum stuck in her hair and trying to get it out.
Click to expand...

Joannie was definitely best in SP albeit by default. I don't think her PCS was inflated but I will have to wait and see whether there was inflation in her GOE.
 
Talking about cats...

On days of great doubts I often seek for answers in the deposits of the old Chinese wisdom. This time will not be an exception: lets have a look at the yesterday's Ladies SP through the prism of the ancient intricate knowledge. :)

- "Only time separates good programs from bad. A man who judges programs based on the first YouTube glance misjudges often. A man who buys hype/hate campaigns cannot avoid dissatisfaction. People are hurting each other trying to express their opinion on a program that is still in the stage of development. They scream as if they have been lit on fire, not knowing that there is eternity ahead.

A wise man does not rush. Programs come to their full bloom sooner or later and he does not have to worry.

- A mistake in a program is like a rock thrown in a pond filled with moonlight. If rocks are many, one cannot see the Program Components behind the ripples of waves. New programs are full of mistakes. A man who judges perfomances right after the debute skate is doomed to eternal torture. Coaches will never be able to adjust everything to the new CoP twitches on time. Spirals are being held not long enough, jumps lack rotations, steps receive half the points they should. Only around the Nationals will a program take its true shape. This is why a wise man never judges a newly released program. He patiently waits until all mistakes are corrected. His patience is rewarded a hundred times."

Well, that's it. No moral will follow. :)
X-posted on the "Ballerina on Ice" forum.
 
propronia said:
Because no one (maybe except Canadian fans) considers Rochette as a top skater comparable to world medalists. I think Mao with one mistake should always be ahead of perfectly clean Rochette. Yuna Kim's score at worlds SP was very close to Rochette's. At least she landed a triple (f)lip-triple toe combo.
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Joannie was totally different at SC this season from the last season. much better than Carolina, a medalist you refer to. This means there is no reason that one skater should be judged based on the previous performances as you wrote.

The other thing is that we can't compare the score of this event to one of that event. Judges, technical specialists and locations are all different. Let's face it. The CoP will never give us ABSOLUTE scores that can be compared over different competitions. In this sense, the world records have less meaning to me.
 
Whether 6.0 or COP in the SP you need to execute the elements or be executed. That is what happened today. Joannie had one less error than Mao. Joannie shook off the fall (imo the fall did not interrupt the flow of her program at all) and took command of the ice and executed her other difficult elements without any problems. The judges did their jobs today putting Joannie in first place because she earned it. JMO
 
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Because no one (maybe except Canadian fans) considers Rochette as a top skater comparable to world medalists. I think Mao with one mistake should always be ahead of perfectly clean Rochette. Yuna Kim's score at worlds SP was very close to Rochette's. At least she landed a triple (f)lip-triple toe combo.
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Says who? I know that the commentators at Eurosport went nuts over Joannie's performance at Skate Canada. And the ISU said that Rochette's performance in the free skate of the Olympics, was the second best of the night.

Rochette has always been considered someone who had the goods to contend, she's just been inconsistent.

Rochette had the fourth highest scores last year at the GP, she just had the bad luck of having the hardest competitions and so she didn't make it to the GPF. She was also given great scores at Four Continents. She messed up at worlds last year, if she hadn't she could have perhaps been a world medalist.

I suspect that the people who are saying Rochette isn't "top flight" And really who besides Mao or Yu-na is better than Rochette. Kostner? Ando? Nakano? LOL!

I bet a lot of these people didn't even know who Rochette was until this year, and know she's putting up some big numbers so people are scared.
 
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Currently the minimum criteria as a top female skater are 3-3s(flip-toe or higher). Rochette doesn't have it. If she lands a 3f-3t once in a competition, I may change my mind. But until then, she doesn't belong to the category of Asada, Ando, Kostner and Kim. For the same reason Flatt and Zhang are better than Rochette.
 
propronia said:
Currently the minimum criteria as a top female skater are 3-3s(flip-toe or higher). Rochette doesn't have it. If she lands a 3f-3t once in a competition, I may change my mind. But until then, she doesn't belong to the category of Asada, Ando, Kostner and Kim. For the same reason Flatt and Zhang are better than Rochette.
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Wow? I didn't know that. So the fact for example that Rochette normally lands at least 5/6 triples in her long program, while Kostner is all over the place means nothing?

Or the fact that Rochette has perfect technique on her jumps while Flatt, Zhang, Asada and possible Yu-na do not. Just doesn't matter???

And let's not talk about speed/flow accross the ice which Rochette has and people like Zhang/Flatt do not. Rochette is held back by her ability to do a 3flip/3toe. If she could do this combinations consistently, she'd be on lots of podiums, but there's more to skating than just one combination.
 
zhang

Caroline Zhang.

Just watched Zhang's SP on icenetwork. She's much better than SC, much happier as well. She was attacking the program, a bit faster, her spins finally got back to her previous standard.

It's kind of funny to hear her reaction in K&C when the scores came up. She was guessing there's one downgrade, a missed 2A, but still a bit puzzled, saying 'worse than SC? let's go and take a look at protocols.' :laugh:
 
Me thinks if Mao came in first today in the SP this thread would be a lot calmer.
 
Okay, seriously, Asada had TWO serious mistakes as opposed to Rochette's one, and she's behind by barely 1 point. What in the world is with the fuss? GEEZ.
 
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