AIN Competitors, Coaches, and ISU Rules

[lariko]

As I said, it seems that the coach can't replaced. And Daniil was travelling to international events, too.

Okay, than it's beyond ridiculous. I mean, everything about the whole farce is, but this is beyond farce. I am looking for word here. I am running out of vocab.

Edit: I'm going with the extravaganza of absurd

 

[lariko]

I assume, by extension, seeing that everyone represents singularly self and self only, whoever travels with Gubanova or Gumennik can't be in the K&C with Petrosyan. And neither can Gumennik, lest the audience clues in that they might have something in common and not solitary neutral unassociated.

Congratulations, ISU. You've achieved what I didn't think would happen in my wildest flights of imagination. I feel sympathy for Daniil G.

 

[niks]

I agree with the comments above. The "rules" for this AIN business become more and more absurd, and honestly at the end of the day it is the ISU's image that suffers yet another slide downhill (incredibly, it can still keep falling and falling to new unforeseen lows )

Poor Adelia She really does not deserve all this nonsense. She is barely older than a child, has hurt nobody and already puts a lot of self-pressure on herself. Now she is forced to face it all literally on her own. Much strength and good luck to her. Go Adelia!

 

[Ziotic]

I agree with the comments above. The "rules" for this AIN business become more and more absurd, and honestly at the end of the day it is the ISU's image that suffers yet another slide downhill (incredibly, it can still keep falling and falling to new unforeseen lows )

Poor Adelia She really does not deserve all this nonsense. She is barely older than a child, has hurt nobody and already puts a lot of self-pressure on herself. Now she is forced to face it all literally on her own. Much strength and good luck to her. Go Adelia!

I think the goal was to make it so hard they just don't want to show up.

 

[icetug]

So who didn't read ISU rules for AIN coaches - RusFed or Team Tutberidze? Danil was one of the coaches accompanying Kamila in Beijing and anybody believed that ISU would accept him for Milan? Congratulations, you repeated great work you did for ice dance and pairs. Don't forget to play the ISU victim.

 

[Mathematician]

Eteri has no other students there. She can't be accredited without an athlete.

Right but I don't understand from the beginning why she cant accompany Adeliia as her athlete. Why would an AIN athlete require a verified AIN coach? If for example Russian Medvedeva could be represented by Canadian Orser? Why cant an AIN athlete then be accompanied by a Georgian coach? If apparently Orser's Canadian status had no bearing on Medvedeva's medal going under the Russian flag, why would Eteri's Georgian status have anything at all to do with her athlete's AIN status? Unless you're necessarily maintaining that Adeliia is subliminally Russian which defeats the entire purpose of this convoluted system to have every single technicality linking to Russia eliminated? Extremely silly and illogical IMO, if Eteri is already allowed otherwise as a Georgian then the only thing stopping her accompaniment is Adeliia's Russian status which defeats the entire ISU standard of this whole AIN thing.

 

[gmyers]

Right but I don't understand from the beginning why she cant accompany Adeliia as her athlete. Why would an AIN athlete require a verified AIN coach? If for example Russian Medvedeva could be represented by Canadian Orser? Why cant an AIN athlete then be accompanied by a Georgian coach? If apparently Orser's Canadian status had no bearing on Medvedeva's medal going under the Russian flag, why would Eteri's Georgian status have anything at all to do with her athlete's AIN status? Unless you're necessarily maintaining that Adeliia is subliminally Russian which defeats the entire purpose of this convoluted system to have every single technicality linking to Russia eliminated? Extremely silly and illogical IMO, if Eteri is already allowed otherwise as a Georgian then the only thing stopping her accompaniment is Adeliia's Russian status which defeats the entire ISU standard of this whole AIN thing.

Because Adelia is Russian! Everything flows from that. Because Adelia is Russian she must fill out a neutral form. And anyone associated with her must fill out a neutral form. On this form for both athlete and coach it demands you say if you hold Russian or Belarusian passport. You must pick one. There is no other options. The isu doesn’t want Russians mingling with anyone else in skating. The isu still has a total ban on all Russians from strictly isu competitions. If you are a Russian athlete and didn’t have a Russian coach you could never have that non Russian coach with you. Remember Russians are banned from any skating gatherings at the OQE or Olympics. https://isu-d8g8b4b7ece7aphs.a03.az...Communication2680039609800_17346849641740.pdf

 

[niks]

So who didn't read ISU rules for AIN coaches - RusFed or Team Tutberidze? Danil was one of the coaches accompanying Kamila in Beijing and anybody believed that ISU would accept him for Milan? Congratulations, you repeated great work you did for ice dance and pairs. Don't forget to play the ISU victim.

Well, the AIN status is supposed to be about the war. Not about Kamila, Beijing or doping. So to be fair, reading these so called "ISU rules" would not have helped Danil, his team or RusFed to foresee anything based on Beijing (for which by the way, the ISU itself did not move one finger to investigate the doping and punish the real culprits; so they better not show that card because it would be the summit of cynicism). And honestly, at this point, RusFed/etc do not need to play victim; by implementing an absurd scheme and taking arbitrary unaccountable decisions, the ISU itself is handing this victim narrative in a silver plate to them.

I think the goal was to make it so hard they just don't want to show up.

The most flagrant thing here is that they are putting Adelia at an objective disadvantage compared to her competitors by depriving her of her right of having a coach with her. If Danil was not good for whatever reason (which of course, the ISU will not inform, nor be accountable for nor give any option for appeal), the very least they owe Adelia is to let her have another coach with her so she can compete in equal conditions (let alone the very possible bias in the judging). As it is, the ISU is violating the fair play rules that are a basic principle of sports.

The ISU is plainly showing once again that they do not care about the athletes, nor about the sport, nor about anything really. There is very little way around this fact.

 

[gmyers]

So who didn't read ISU rules for AIN coaches - RusFed or Team Tutberidze? Danil was one of the coaches accompanying Kamila in Beijing and anybody believed that ISU would accept him for Milan? Congratulations, you repeated great work you did for ice dance and pairs. Don't forget to play the ISU victim.

The isu says explicitly and multiple times association means being coach of someone while they were suspended is banned. Is there any proof that after Valieva suspension Danny g worked with her? People here are experts on valieva and Danny g! Did he ever do anything for her after she was suspended? Being her coach during her failed test is not disqualifying for him based on PUBLISHED material. It’s possible the neutrality screening board decided to punish him outside the written rules.

 

[Mathematician]

Because Adelia is Russian! Everything flows from that. Because Adelia is Russian she must fill out a neutral form. And anyone associated with her must fill out a neutral form. On this form for both athlete and coach it demands you say if you hold Russian or Belarusian passport. You must pick one. There is no other options. The isu doesn’t want Russians mingling with anyone else in skating. The isu still has a total ban on all Russians from strictly isu competitions. If you are a Russian athlete and didn’t have a Russian coach you could never have that non Russian coach with you. Remember Russians are banned from any skating gatherings at the OQE or Olympics. https://isu-d8g8b4b7ece7aphs.a03.az...Communication2680039609800_17346849641740.pdf

That still doesnt make any sense. She is officially per all relevant technicality an independent person, not a Russian. It makes no sense a coach from a non-banned country e.g. Georgia cant accompany an AIN athlete if they can accompany any other athlete from any other country. Yes I agree its because Adeliia is Russian and it uproots their entire narrative. She isn't supposed to be recognized as having anything to do with Russia. She is just a skater and should be able to go with a coach who is allowed with other athletes. Makes no sense at all. I'm just arguing on pure technicality here I genuinely couldn't care any less if Eteri or anyone else is allowed I've never been super pro Eteri or even pro Russia at all, its the pure fallaciousness of the system that is frustrating to me.

 

[Ziotic]

Well, the AIN status is supposed to be about the war. Not about Kamila, Beijing or doping. So to be fair, reading these so called "ISU rules" would not have helped Danil, his team or RusFed to foresee anything based on Beijing (for which by the way, the ISU itself did not move one finger to investigate the doping and punish the real culprits; so they better not show that card because it would be the summit of cynicism). And honestly, at this point, RusFed/etc do not need to play victim; by implementing an absurd scheme and taking arbitrary unaccountable decisions, the ISU itself is handing this victim narrative in a silver plate to them.




The most flagrant thing here is that they are putting Adelia at an objective disadvantage compared to her competitors by depriving her of her right of having a coach with her. If Danil was not good for whatever reason (which of course, the ISU will not inform, nor be accountable for nor give any option for appeal), the very least they owe Adelia is to let her have another coach with her so she can compete in equal conditions (let alone the very possible bias in the judging). As it is, the ISU is violating the fair play rules that are a basic principle of sports.

The ISU is plainly showing once again that they do not care about the athletes, nor about the sport, nor about anything really. There is very little way around this fact.

I mean I would argue they DO care about athletes, specifically the Ukrainian ones who have had their training facilities destroyed because the Russians started a war.

The Russians are in the wrong for breaking the Olympic truce, there athletes SHOULDN’T be allowed.

Stop being all poor Adelia, she should be thankful she even gets a chance to skate.

 

[gmyers]

I mean I would argue they DO care about athletes, specifically the Ukrainian ones who have had their training facilities destroyed because the Russians started a war.

The Russians are in the wrong for breaking the Olympic truce, there athletes SHOULDN’T be allowed.

Stop being all poor Adelia, she should be thankful she even gets a chance to skate.

But she doesn’t get a chance to skate fairly under conditions everyone else does

 

[gmyers]

That still doesnt make any sense. She is officially per all relevant technicality an independent person, not a Russian. It makes no sense a coach from a non-banned country e.g. Georgia cant accompany an AIN athlete if they can accompany any other athlete from any other country. Yes I agree its because Adeliia is Russian and it uproots their entire narrative. She isn't supposed to be recognized as having anything to do with Russia. She is just a skater and should be able to go with a coach who is allowed with other athletes. Makes no sense at all. I'm just arguing on pure technicality here I genuinely couldn't care any less if Eteri or anyone else is allowed I've never been super pro Eteri or even pro Russia at all, its the pure fallaciousness of the system that is frustrating to me.

Oh I totally agree! I read these things over and over and it’s like what? How? Isu should have never ever ever done this is as they really didn’t want Russias. IOC didn’t make it mandatory or anything. They sent out a memo saying Olympics is about athletes from every country. For some reason isu decided to play along but so absurdly and anti athlete. I mean I never read anything about ioc revoking isu recognition if it didn’t allow Russians in Olympics

 

[gmyers]

That still doesnt make any sense. She is officially per all relevant technicality an independent person, not a Russian. It makes no sense a coach from a non-banned country e.g. Georgia cant accompany an AIN athlete if they can accompany any other athlete from any other country. Yes I agree its because Adeliia is Russian and it uproots their entire narrative. She isn't supposed to be recognized as having anything to do with Russia. She is just a skater and should be able to go with a coach who is allowed with other athletes. Makes no sense at all. I'm just arguing on pure technicality here I genuinely couldn't care any less if Eteri or anyone else is allowed I've never been super pro Eteri or even pro Russia at all, its the pure fallaciousness of the system that is frustrating to me.

Oh I totally agree! I read these things over and over and it’s like what? How? Isu should have never ever ever done this is as they really didn’t want Russias. IOC didn’t make it mandatory or anything. They sent out a memo saying Olympics is about athletes from every country. For some reason isu decided to play along but so absurdly and anti athlete. I mean I never read anything about ioc revoking isu recognition if it didn’t allow Russians in Olympics

 

[Minz]

That still doesnt make any sense. She is officially per all relevant technicality an independent person, not a Russian. It makes no sense a coach from a non-banned country e.g. Georgia cant accompany an AIN athlete if they can accompany any other athlete from any other country. Yes I agree its because Adeliia is Russian and it uproots their entire narrative. She isn't supposed to be recognized as having anything to do with Russia. She is just a skater and should be able to go with a coach who is allowed with other athletes. Makes no sense at all. I'm just arguing on pure technicality here I genuinely couldn't care any less if Eteri or anyone else is allowed I've never been super pro Eteri or even pro Russia at all, its the pure fallaciousness of the system that is frustrating to me.

It had nothing to do with Eteri. Because she’s an AIN, she gets to submit one coach, and that coach can’t be replaced. That’s the rule. Daniil was submitted, and he was rejected. Therefore, Adeliia has no coach.

It’s similar to how they did it with the athletes. They couldn’t replace the pairs/dance teams after they got rejected.

That’s just how the rule is. Whether you think it’s fair or not is another thing, but I don’t think it’s going to change like 3 days before the event.

 

[Mathematician]

It had nothing to do with Eteri. Because she’s an AIN, she gets to submit one coach, and that coach can’t be replaced. That’s the rule. Daniil was submitted, and he was rejected. Therefore, Adeliia has no coach.

It’s similar to how they did it with the athletes. They couldn’t replace the pairs/dance teams after they got rejected.

That’s just how the rule is. Whether you think it’s fair or not is another thing, but I don’t think it’s going to change like 3 days before the event.

The application is for neutral status. Yes, Dani G got denied and there are no further entries, that makes perfect sense. Thats a different problem than regarding why an accepted independent athlete has to make an application to be accompanied by anyone who is already allowed otherwise, not for someone from a banned country to be accepted as an AIN.

Again, the athlete is neutral and has no affiliation to any country, so she shouldn't have to apply for an already accepted coach to accompany any athlete they want, considering a Canadian coach can accompany a Russian athlete. Otherwise it is an open admission that she is not independent and is still Russian. They are shooting themselves in the foot technically. Thats all I'm talking about.

It isnt about fairness, I never complained about that and IDC about how "hard" they made this situation for anyone, I think its already fair enough that Adeliia gets a chance at all to skate and I'm happy for her and Russians should be grateful for the bone they got thrown. She has every opportunity now to prove herself.

My problem is that it is objectively illogical. Its just a technical failure. I'm only making a pedantic observation. Its an intellectual grievance. It completely uproots the entire idea of Adeliia being independent. They are admitting she is not independent. They don't even realize what they are doing.

 

[Minz]

The application is for neutral status. Yes, Dani G got denied and there are no further entries, that makes perfect sense. Thats a different problem than regarding why an accepted independent athlete has to make an application to be accompanied by anyone who is already allowed otherwise, not for someone from a banned country to be accepted as an AIN.

Again, the athlete is neutral and has no affiliation to any country, so she shouldn't have to apply for an already accepted coach to accompany any athlete they want, considering a Canadian coach can accompany a Russian athlete. Otherwise it is an open admission that she is not independent and is still Russian. They are shooting themselves in the foot technically. Thats all I'm talking about.

It isnt about fairness, I never complained about that and IDC about how "hard" they made this situation for anyone, I think its already fair enough that Adeliia gets a chance at all to skate and I'm happy for her and Russians should be grateful for the bone they got thrown. She has every opportunity now to prove herself.

My problem is that it is objectively illogical. Its just a technical failure. I'm only making a pedantic observation. Its an intellectual grievance. It completely uproots the entire idea of Adeliia being independent. They are admitting she is not independent. They don't even realize what they are doing.

I see your point.

The only thing I’d say is that Eteri doesn’t have any other students there, so it’s not like she’d be there anyway. But why they chose to submit Daniil and not Eteri I have no idea.

 

[Mathematician]

But why they chose to submit Daniil and not Eteri I have no idea.

Me neither. Apparently they thought Dani was the safest. I don't know why. The entire TeamTut establishment has been equally scrupulous about separating themselves from any propaganda or war effort whatsoever.

Clearly the doping rule was put in to stop the coaches from getting accepted. It was obvious they would all get barred for this reason.

But then the question is just how in the world is Eteri allowed otherwise??? It isn't about being Russian or supporting war but about the doping clause, which Eteri was a part of either way, so she should be barred from being seen internationally even as a Georgian, but she isnt... so I have no idea how Dani got denied for it...

The entire situation is incoherent and it didn't have to be. Its actually not that difficult of a situation. They dont have to concede to Russia in any way. Just ban Eteri as a Georgian per the doping clause and everything is consistent. But they can't figure these basic things out and it seems like they don't care at all. They're chasing their own tail and can't catch it. Eteri can either accompany any official ISU athlete she wants as a Georgian or she can't. Its that simple.

 

[4everchan]

The reality is that the IOC imposed on the ISU to allow athletes the ISU was not willing to accept from the start. So the ISU came up with rules, and as you know, these rules do not make sense. Yes, it is absurd that ANY athlete would be denied coaching. Completely absurd.

Just as absurd as the Russian team (sorry the ROC team) keeping their bronze medal because the rules didn't specifically say that in the team event, the rankings/points would be reallocated as they always do in every other event.

Sorry but you can blame the ISU for the lack of smart rules which sometimes has helped the Russians... but at the same time, the IOC has its responsibilities here. The only way to make this logical, safe while taking care of all athletes present at the games was to keep the ban in place. When the IOC started to try to find compromises with the sports Federation, they opened a huge can of worms.

Yes, Adelia may suffer... but she will still qualify and still most likely win a medal and still will be celebrated as a huge hero when she gets back home. An even bigger hero now that she is denied a coach. That's also something the IOC didn't think could happen but it will happen. The publicity around this whole deal will once again compromise the competition of the other 31 women participating (I think it's 32 total right ? ) Just like it did for other reasons, 4 years ago.

 

[Minz]

I mean it’s the ISU we’re talking about. They aren’t exactly known for their competence and sound logical reasoning skills…